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Old May 20, 2012, 02:25 PM
hoten-x,master-cp,v120d02s,etc
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post





Free??, alright buddy, mail it over! I'm also willing to make installments of nothing. I sure could use that rotor head right about now though.
lol, just because I didn't list a price doesn't mean it's free...it's kind of like an auction, I'll ship it to the highest bidder

I mean the rx, rudder servo, and motor/esc alone would cost nearly 200 bucks to buy new and mine are hardly used, tail section is good, grips and head are good, just needs a feathering shaft....frame is good too. You know you want to make me an offer
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Old May 20, 2012, 03:45 PM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
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Originally Posted by candy76man View Post
lol, just because I didn't list a price doesn't mean it's free...it's kind of like an auction, I'll ship it to the highest bidder

I mean the rx, rudder servo, and motor/esc alone would cost nearly 200 bucks to buy new and mine are hardly used, tail section is good, grips and head are good, just needs a feathering shaft....frame is good too. You know you want to make me an offer
Oh, it's definitely worth something. I was just pulling your chain. I just don't have that kind of money right now. Though if you have it around for a bit without selling it i might make you a legit offer when i'm in a better position to do so. HeliBiggie might be interested, you should ask him, he has to rekit his heli from a recent crash.
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Old May 20, 2012, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
Thanks again guys , my only problem is i have 2 kids and dont really have the time , but it will get done! It looks like i will need 1 normal servo. I want the best , thats been tested, so what was that brand again? And should i just get all 3? and then i know the worst tail servo but what was the best to get?

I also need. A tail boom , main gear, landing gear, and one swash link , kinda good , concidering the awesome smack it made. Lol. I got the v450 to have a heli when my v400 went down , so now the roll reverses. But my v400 has a loose pinion...... Argh! Again
Sounds like you made out well. I'm guessing your main shaft is probably bent too. As far as servos go my next set will be the Savox 0257MG. These should be nice servos. Maybe not the BEST but very good, and people have reported them working well with the 2702V. Replace all 3 at the same time, and maybe even order yourself a few sets of replacement servo gears too.

http://www.savoxusa.com/Savox_SH0257...avsh0257mg.htm

http://www.savoxusa.com/Savox_SGSH02...sgsh0257mg.htm

For the tail i will be going with the Futaba S9257

http://helidirect.com/futaba-s9257-e...der-p-4881.hdx
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Old May 21, 2012, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Apphoard View Post
What is the worst tail servo the stock one?
The Fusonic is probably the worst, next in line is PowerHD, they are hit and miss with quality. You dont want to play hit and miss with a servo...... Just check around to read what people have to say about it. The solar servo brand from hobbypartz looks good if you want cheap and still decent performance. I hear they are pretty good quality for the cost but have never used them so dont quote me on that. The stock servo cost almost as much as a name brand and although for the tail gives decent performance and specs (forget about the stock cyclics)......it just gets too hot for my likeing and sounds like a rattlesnake is inside the boom when the heli is stationary (too much deadband as it never stops hunting)

Match the specs and dimensions of the stock tail/cyclic servos to find a replacement tail servo that fits. Spending money on a good servo is not a bad idea even if your going to crash because a decent servo with MG should withstand a crash, and might avoid the crash in the first place. Its like what came first the chicken or the egg.....the servo or the crash.
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Old May 21, 2012, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
The Fusonic is probably the worst, next in line is PowerHD, they are hit and miss with quality. You dont want to play hit and miss with a servo...... Just check around to read what people have to say about it. The solar servo brand from hobbypartz looks good if you want cheap and still decent performance. I hear they are pretty good quality for the cost but have never used them so dont quote me on that. The stock servo cost almost as much as a name brand and although for the tail gives decent performance and specs (forget about the stock cyclics)......it just gets too hot for my likeing and sounds like a rattlesnake is inside the boom when the heli is stationary (too much deadband as it never stops hunting)

Match the specs and dimensions of the stock tail/cyclic servos to find a replacement tail servo that fits. Spending money on a good servo is not a bad idea even if your going to crash because a decent servo with MG should withstand a crash, and might avoid the crash in the first place. Its like what came first the chicken or the egg.....the servo or the crash.
I've crashed lots with plenty of plastic geared helicotpers. I've never stripped a tail servo gear. The pot inside goes bad on them before the gears strip. So except for very rare cases i guess, i don't find plastic gears a bad thing on the tail. Especially if they are replaceable anyway. Maybe it's more likely on this 450 though.

Hey HF711, i'm looking for a place to get Futaba S3154 servos for my 4f200. It looks like almost no one carries them. Any ideas for a good place? Or should i just spend the extra money and get the Hitec HS-5065MG from heli direct? They might not fit, but can probably be ground down to fit the frame slots. I also am not sure if my 2618V will like the Hitec servo. But i'm pretty sure the Futaba is a drop in replacement, just cant find them with a good price except for ebay. I'd rather not order from over seas.

UPDATE:
Flew 3 packs in my driveway today with the new rotor head. It flew great once i got the tracking set. Still having this quarter turn/half turn issue and i've done swash setup like 3 times, i can only get it close and i don't like even doing half turns so it is what it is i suppose.

To my surprise Walkera uses a even stronger thread lock adhesive than my ASC1596, which is good or bad depending on how you look at it, since i took it apart and used the ASC1596 anyway i suppose it's irreverent. I wanted to do the same for the FS but was only able to get the one side off so i hope the other side is secure at least. Maybe someone can tell me why I was unable to pull the 2nd blade grip and FS out of the rotor head and dampeners after i had already removed the first blade grip? It's like it was being secured by the head stopper screw?!? My last rotor head didn't have the head stopper when i received the helicopter and it was using an align FS already. But the FS would spin freely in the head it just would not pull free. I didn't want to grab it with pliers because the metal was noticeably cheaper than the align FS IMO and I preferred not to score the surface where the bearings would sit so i just left the 2nd blade grip on there for now till i have to maint. the thrust bearings. But thats why i wanted to remove the screw and replace the thread lock with my ASC1596. At any rate it's flying smooth now. I'm able to put my pots at about 10 or 11 o'clock and it flies stable. There is a little intermittent wobble but i think thats from some gyro vibe interference. I doubled up the 3M extreme foam mounting tape I have and it's pretty firm foam so i hope the Isolation is better now. Waiting for the packs and i'm off to fly another 3 packs. (i need to get more packs!)
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Old May 21, 2012, 10:16 PM
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Ok so it looks like i will get the align tail servo, what other servos are you running heliflyer? I want everyone opinion.

So i plugged in the v450 to check electrical damage , 2servos and maybe tail , i hope its not the rx that went bad.....when i twist heli side to side, like it was doing before crash... I could here the servo work, correct inself, does that sound right?



Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
Metal Tail Rotor Control Arm
So now the tail section rebuild specifically the "Metal Tail Rotor Control Arm"
This part takes all the force as a pivot point from the rudder control rod and has 2 bearings in it, after a year the bearings started to develop some slop witch translated into more slop down the line. The funny thing is the old part had all the parts, the new part didnt have the bearing washer (circled in red on the 3rd pic) so I just used the one from the old part. But the new part should have come with this little brass washer already installed, which allows the 2 bearings to connect seamless and slide smooth between them while the screw/bolt compresses them together. So, if you do replace this part on your V be sure to check for and put this washer in if its missing or you could find there will be binding in the part. (HM-F450-Z--15) and all the problems that come with that, especially tail wag.

Nothing like replacing an old part with new only to find the new part is worse!
This could have been a one off, that maybe only a small batch of parts were effected nevertheless its always good to check to be sure.

Washer Mod (Tail Assy)
I also added the washer mod (if you can call it a mod, since the heli dont come stock with it)
Shown in the 1st PIC in the 2nd row...........It's just an extra brass washer off of an old set of Swash Phasing arms/Control arms that connect to the swash on the V's head. Inside each of those arms are 2 small bearings and in between those 2 small bearings is this 1 brass washer. So if you have an old set of those or one in your parts box install it below the arm that sticks out from the tail assy and on to the top bearing of the Metal Tail Rotor Control Arm. Not too tight and not too lose just enough to keep the part from having any extra movement back and forth on the screw, other than what it should have. This will alleviate any possible slop or binding in this area.

Rudder Control Rod straight shot mod
Also the V450 comes stock out of the box with the rudder control rod on the first hole of each of the 2 supports, with the 3rd support in the middle being integrated into the H-Stab mount. I found that its a more direct straight line from the servo to the control arm if you go down to the second hole (closest to the bottom) on the supports. In order to do that cut or sand or dremel (cleaner method) the H-Stab mount bottom hole, see pic below. This way it wont interfere with the plastic sleeve, then if you have an extra regular mount just use that in its place, but 2 mounts should work fine also. Just go down to the 2nd hole on all 3 and line them up, torque them down straight, and now you wont have the rudder control rod bending in the center or any friction on the rod. Always best to have the rod straight from end to end and moving smoothly. (See last 2 pics)

PS. I'm using a Align DS520 as a tail servo, which is more sensitive, tighter deadband etc.. than the stock 2610H. I reduced the mechanical gain by moving the tail servo ball link closer in to the servo arm screw by 2 mm's. Stock setup is ball link 10mm on center from screw to ball, I went down to 8mm on center. So you may or may not need to do this mod to get your control rod straight depending on what servo your using and the ball distance used from center screw.
Reducing mechanical gain increases servo resolution on the tail servo and can be one way to get rid of tail wag on a sensitive tail gyro with some servos. See here for more info on this;
http://www.spartan-rc.com/resources/...q.php?topic=84
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Old May 21, 2012, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
Ok so it looks like i will get the align tail servo, what other servos are you running heliflyer? I want everyone opinion.

So i plugged in the v450 to check electrical damage , 2servos and maybe tail , i hope its not the rx that went bad.....when i twist heli side to side, like it was doing before crash... I could here the servo work, correct inself, does that sound right?
I use the Align DS410m's on cyclic and the Ds520 on the tail, same as on the trex 450 Pro. You can also use the Savox equivalent might be a little cheaper. If you want the best & most expensive 450 servos out, the MKS DS95's on cyclic and the DS95i on the tail, thats about 300.00 worth of servo there and the sideframes would have to be cut for them to fit. They are the fastest and the strongest. Although, the Aligns are a drop in fit mid-grade servo for the V, there is a mod for the servo arms that I posted back in this thread to make them line up with the swash as stock setup. You'll need an old swashplate to use the swash balls which stick out further than the stock servo arm balls. This makes the geometry line up same as stock with the align servos and gives proper throw, if you use the stock balls the arms will sit back too far and although it will work that way its better to do it right (straight up and down from swash to servo arm). When/if you get the Aligns I'll run you through it, its easy to do.

The RX is 99% chance its fine, this was its first fender bender no sweat, Do your due diligence in testing it though ......and hit the books aka use the search feature on the forum and especially this thread for the things that your interested in learning no avoiding it now. So much information here dude. I made all the mistakes and still make a few here and there but between this place and HF, wattflyer, rc universe and utube they got me running 99.9% uptime this last year If you want....... Check my blog in a few days I should have the rebuild thread for the V450D01 going in there so its all in one place and you can find most of what info you need between that and this thread.
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Old May 21, 2012, 10:53 PM
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United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
I've crashed lots with plenty of plastic geared helicotpers. I've never stripped a tail servo gear. The pot inside goes bad on them before the gears strip. So except for very rare cases i guess, i don't find plastic gears a bad thing on the tail. Especially if they are replaceable anyway. Maybe it's more likely on this 450 though.

Hey HF711, i'm looking for a place to get Futaba S3154 servos for my 4f200. It looks like almost no one carries them. Any ideas for a good place? Or should i just spend the extra money and get the Hitec HS-5065MG from heli direct? They might not fit, but can probably be ground down to fit the frame slots. I also am not sure if my 2618V will like the Hitec servo. But i'm pretty sure the Futaba is a drop in replacement, just cant find them with a good price except for ebay. I'd rather not order from over seas.

UPDATE:
Flew 3 packs in my driveway today with the new rotor head. It flew great once i got the tracking set. Still having this quarter turn/half turn issue and i've done swash setup like 3 times, i can only get it close and i don't like even doing half turns so it is what it is i suppose.

To my surprise Walkera uses a even stronger thread lock adhesive than my ASC1596, which is good or bad depending on how you look at it, since i took it apart and used the ASC1596 anyway i suppose it's irreverent. I wanted to do the same for the FS but was only able to get the one side off so i hope the other side is secure at least. Maybe someone can tell me why I was unable to pull the 2nd blade grip and FS out of the rotor head and dampeners after i had already removed the first blade grip? It's like it was being secured by the head stopper screw?!? My last rotor head didn't have the head stopper when i received the helicopter and it was using an align FS already. But the FS would spin freely in the head it just would not pull free. I didn't want to grab it with pliers because the metal was noticeably cheaper than the align FS IMO and I preferred not to score the surface where the bearings would sit so i just left the 2nd blade grip on there for now till i have to maint. the thrust bearings. But thats why i wanted to remove the screw and replace the thread lock with my ASC1596. At any rate it's flying smooth now. I'm able to put my pots at about 10 or 11 o'clock and it flies stable. There is a little intermittent wobble but i think thats from some gyro vibe interference. I doubled up the 3M extreme foam mounting tape I have and it's pretty firm foam so i hope the Isolation is better now. Waiting for the packs and i'm off to fly another 3 packs. (i need to get more packs!)
Try Amain or Tower, they usually have what HD doesnt, used both no problems in the past.

YMMV

What blades are you using, they do make specific one for FBL. If you can.. stay away from the cheap chinese clones since some of them arent CGd and balanced right. The tracking issue; maybe the blades arent CG'd both length and chord wise or they could be warped, the V450 should be able to get perfect tracking since theres only 2 arms to adjust. If the problem is mechanical you have to either move the swash up a notch or down a notch or try a new set of blades. All else fails do the 1/4 turn on each grip link to cheat and get it. But I must warn you theres a chance a ball link can come off on spool up, it did on me once. Its the way the link sits at an extreme angle on the ball.

Walkera is a pig with threadlock, i think they think it is lube instead LOL, they apply it linberally and it usually means a ruined part when you go to try to take it apart. Not always but it happens, they have got better at it lately. My bet on the intermittant wobble its the cyclic servos or at least one of them, even new they have way to much play and this is the cause, as least on the six I went through. With the DS410M's they take the gains all the way up to end of + and no wobble ever.

The 2702V likes a firm mounting tape, for a few reasons...thats how it came mounted stock and its using a mems gyro which has anti-vibe circuitry built in, its also an electric and should not have much vibes at all. I've tried PU gel, Align mounting tape, 3M red-back, 3M greenback and double layer servo tape on the 2702V in all kinds of combos. The one that worked the best was one strip of 1/1/2" red back 3M tape. If you have a wiggle or a waggle its something else (servo/tracking etc.) and not the RX mounting. The 2702V is super sensitive and you can just touch it very lightly and the tail servo will move so it needs to be mounted solid. So if its able to move free in the air on the heli on thick foam that could be a problem, another problem is the RX mount design. The RX sits right on top of the boom and the RX mount is actually screwed with 4 screws into the boom holder. If the front tail belt pulley has a wobble (common wear on the pulley bearings) the wobble could vibe right into the RX and cause a tail wag.. I just went through this on mine which is why i did the tear down.

The funny thing is those 4 screws on the RX mounting plate are Not on the Exploded Diagram so this must have been a last min revision to the heli. It also means if you need to change the boom, you have to remove the RX.....everytime. Which is fine but looking at the exploded only.....there would be a lot of pulling on the boom before realizing those screws were there hidden under the RX/tape and need to come out. Just a minor ommision from Walkera I suppose
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Old May 21, 2012, 11:30 PM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
I should have the rebuild thread for the V450D01 going in there so its all in one place and you can find most of what info you need between that and this thread.
I'm going to copy paste that into word and then print it out and stick it in my V450D01 parts box. It's invaluable what you have put together there. Thank you!
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Old May 22, 2012, 01:58 AM
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Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
Try Amain or Tower, they usually have what HD doesnt, used both no problems in the past.

YMMV

What blades are you using, they do make specific one for FBL. If you can.. stay away from the cheap chinese clones since some of them arent CGd and balanced right. The tracking issue; maybe the blades arent CG'd both length and chord wise or they could be warped, the V450 should be able to get perfect tracking since theres only 2 arms to adjust. If the problem is mechanical you have to either move the swash up a notch or down a notch or try a new set of blades. All else fails do the 1/4 turn on each grip link to cheat and get it. But I must warn you theres a chance a ball link can come off on spool up, it did on me once. Its the way the link sits at an extreme angle on the ball.

Walkera is a pig with threadlock, i think they think it is lube instead LOL, they apply it linberally and it usually means a ruined part when you go to try to take it apart. Not always but it happens, they have got better at it lately. My bet on the intermittant wobble its the cyclic servos or at least one of them, even new they have way to much play and this is the cause, as least on the six I went through. With the DS410M's they take the gains all the way up to end of + and no wobble ever.

The 2702V likes a firm mounting tape, for a few reasons...thats how it came mounted stock and its using a mems gyro which has anti-vibe circuitry built in, its also an electric and should not have much vibes at all. I've tried PU gel, Align mounting tape, 3M red-back, 3M greenback and double layer servo tape on the 2702V in all kinds of combos. The one that worked the best was one strip of 1/1/2" red back 3M tape. If you have a wiggle or a waggle its something else (servo/tracking etc.) and not the RX mounting. The 2702V is super sensitive and you can just touch it very lightly and the tail servo will move so it needs to be mounted solid. So if its able to move free in the air on the heli on thick foam that could be a problem, another problem is the RX mount design. The RX sits right on top of the boom and the RX mount is actually screwed with 4 screws into the boom holder. If the front tail belt pulley has a wobble (common wear on the pulley bearings) the wobble could vibe right into the RX and cause a tail wag.. I just went through this on mine which is why i did the tear down.

The funny thing is those 4 screws on the RX mounting plate are Not on the Exploded Diagram so this must have been a last min revision to the heli. It also means if you need to change the boom, you have to remove the RX.....everytime. Which is fine but looking at the exploded only.....there would be a lot of pulling on the boom before realizing those screws were there hidden under the RX/tape and need to come out. Just a minor ommision from Walkera I suppose
At the moment i am using the stock v450 blades that i got with the helicopter because they have not been impacted or anything and i know they are balanced. I am waiting for a set of these pro 3d blades from heli direct though: http://helidirect.com/325mm-pro-3d-c...er-p-10339.hdx

As far as my tracking goes, don't get me wrong! The blades are tracking right on top of each other nearly perfectly. But i know that a half or quarter turn would line them up better. I just prefer not to put the linkages on backwards or at angles like you mentioned.

Since i doubled up the 3m extreme mounting tape there is a nice secure bond and also some extra padding. The foam on the 3d extreme is very dense like speaker isolation foam and it has a 10 lbs mounting capacity so its on there good. Once i did this combined with replacing my main shaft all wobbles and shakes are gone. Every once in a great while i might get a little wobble after cyclic input but i know that is the slop in the servos. Even brand new these servos have play in them. I was talking to the guy at my LHS (that is never open) and he says the savox servos are really good for their price. I'm considering trying a tail servo too. Have not looked into it but i'm sure they make one that will fit.
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Old May 22, 2012, 02:50 AM
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The new painted canopy and skids installed on the helicopter, white blades will be in some time this week.
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Old May 22, 2012, 06:49 AM
They call me plan B
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United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
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So if i could find my old swash then just use the balls off it? I only found 2 of the extended swash balls. I broke the 3rd one of , will this be a problem, ??
Do the savox servos need any modding?



Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
I use the Align DS410m's on cyclic and the Ds520 on the tail, same as on the trex 450 Pro. You can also use the Savox equivalent might be a little cheaper. If you want the best & most expensive 450 servos out, the MKS DS95's on cyclic and the DS95i on the tail, thats about 300.00 worth of servo there and the sideframes would have to be cut for them to fit. They are the fastest and the strongest. Although, the Aligns are a drop in fit mid-grade servo for the V, there is a mod for the servo arms that I posted back in this thread to make them line up with the swash as stock setup. You'll need an old swashplate to use the swash balls which stick out further than the stock servo arm balls. This makes the geometry line up same as stock with the align servos and gives proper throw, if you use the stock balls the arms will sit back too far and although it will work that way its better to do it right (straight up and down from swash to servo arm). When/if you get the Aligns I'll run you through it, its easy to do.

The RX is 99% chance its fine, this was its first fender bender no sweat, Do your due diligence in testing it though ......and hit the books aka use the search feature on the forum and especially this thread for the things that your interested in learning no avoiding it now. So much information here dude. I made all the mistakes and still make a few here and there but between this place and HF, wattflyer, rc universe and utube they got me running 99.9% uptime this last year If you want....... Check my blog in a few days I should have the rebuild thread for the V450D01 going in there so its all in one place and you can find most of what info you need between that and this thread.
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Old May 22, 2012, 08:49 AM
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United States, PA, Philadelphia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
So if i could find my old swash then just use the balls off it? I only found 2 of the extended swash balls. I broke the 3rd one of , will this be a problem, ??
Do the savox servos need any modding?
Check PM's
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Old May 22, 2012, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
I'm going to copy paste that into word and then print it out and stick it in my V450D01 parts box. It's invaluable what you have put together there. Thank you!
If you want I can add your V450 Manual Addendum to the first post, just give me a link for it.
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Old May 22, 2012, 08:55 AM
Team WarpSquad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
If you want I can add your V450 Manual Addendum to the first post, just give me a link for it.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...2#post21680889

Does that work?
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