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Old May 19, 2012, 10:47 AM
IHW Heli Division
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LevTor View Post
Heli Biggie, on your latest video post on ur 600 you started the heli at mid throttle stick. Did you start her up on stunt mode? How did you spool up the motor gradually (like in normal mode)?
I'm guessing it's done with a programmable ESC? With soft/super soft start up mode the ESC will do the spool up basically so there is no sudden spin up or blade jolting. Just my guess.
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Old May 19, 2012, 11:10 AM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
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United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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Good guess. Elign ESC's have a very soft start....nice and smooth. Some like fast start for auto bailouts though and keep it off. Though for a HV hot 600 sometimes its needed so as to not destroy the gears on spool up, and also it helps with newer pilots from doing dirt piro's when spooling upbefore the tail gets a hold of things.
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Old May 19, 2012, 11:39 AM
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Joined Mar 2012
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MAN, this is such crap. I called 3 LHS today looking for main rotor blade grips that might fit. All the Align grips they are selling for $32+, just for the blade grips. I can get the whole rotor head for $5 more from heli direct. Or the same exact blade grips for $8 less. These guys are all such a Joke, while they push Eflight on you and even say how good and reliable (and ugly) they are and that "Align is crap, oh but hey did you still want to pay $32+tax on those blade grips". Get real!, no wonder they are all going out of business around here, if they exist at all. Dealing with Chinese vendors that don't speak English is better than this. At least they won't rag on you for owning a Walkera, and if they do you can't understand them anyway. JUST SELL ME THE PART AND GO BACK TO YOUR MUNDANE EXISTENCE BEHIND YOUR COUNTER AND I'LL ASK YOU WHEN I WANT YOUR OPINION, NOT THAT YOU KNOW ANYTHING BUT HOW TO POP ZITS AND NOT CARE ABOUT YOUR JOB FOR $7/HR!!!

AND WHATEVER YOU DO!!!! NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER!!!!! MENTION YOU OWN A WALKERA TO THESE ASSES!

All of a sudden they talk to you like your 3 years old and don't know the Alphabet or something. The guy starts talking about how bad the Walkera rotor head is and all this crap. Its basically the exact same design and materials, he's probably never even seen a v450 up close, just likes to talk out of his ass. These people better be making online business because their people skills blow.

Guy tried to sell me a bigger helicopter too, saying it will be more reliable and i'll like it more! Try this Eflite! I just told him i have a SAB Goblin on back order and waited to hear him studder, and begin to tell me, though he has never seen me fly, met me, or even know my name, how i'm probably not experienced enough to own a SAB and i should stick with eflite or something like that till i learn setups and how to fly better. I told him he is a worthless human being and he should just go in the back room and shoot himself now, and hung up the phone. Sales people are the worst kind, almost as bad as federal prosecutors, or rapists.
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Old May 19, 2012, 12:08 PM
IHW Heli Division
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonofpyro View Post
Just wanted to give you guys a heads up on what i'm working on that others may want to do as well. It is the Align 450 DFC head that eliminates the need for the stabilizer and shortens the length of the mainshaft, so far seems like it would cost only a hair more than a full replacement of walkera parts. Will keep the thread posted if people are interested.
Most parts should be in today or saturday.

(correction: actually it would cost less being you have no stabilizer to go bad or break in a crash.)
Whats up with this? where can i get these parts. I just ordered the whole Walkera rotor head for $40, what is this going to run and what is the max efficient pitch range since the shaft is shorter?

I found this but they don't have them in stock yet, but its a little bit more costly, not bad:
http://helidirect.com/align-450dfc-m...62-p-26502.hdx

If this sucker works on the v450, It's a much better design IMO and I will be getting it, when it's available.
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Old May 19, 2012, 12:37 PM
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United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Whats up with this? where can i get these parts. I just ordered the whole Walkera rotor head for $40, what is this going to run and what is the max efficient pitch range since the shaft is shorter?

I found this but they don't have them in stock yet, but its a little bit more costly, not bad:
http://helidirect.com/align-450dfc-m...62-p-26502.hdx

If this sucker works on the v450, It's a much better design IMO and I will be getting it, when it's available.

Is it?, check out some of the post on the subject on the forum here and on HF. Looks like there are some issues here and there with it . The V450 will take a 450 pro align main shaft with some modifications to the radio setup and ball links so it will work. But Im not sold on DFC for 450's yet, larger heli's...maybe. The price is right but the engineering isnt all there. If one of those solid links develops some slop, phasing issues, wobbles and all kinds of problems can crop up. We also dont know how the 2702 will behave with this head, as the V450 head is pretty conservative when it comes to movement.
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Old May 19, 2012, 01:28 PM
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Started the rebuild with tearing down the head, cleaning with alchohol then re-greasing/packing the Thrust bearings with some tri-flow synthetic bearing grease. I measured the Dampers on the V450 head they seem to be the same as the v2 ones in the pro head. Also found the Align FS is ever so slightly shorter than stock, this makes the blade grips not have that slight play. I installed the Align replacement part and the grips are tight with no play, still smooth without any notchyness. The stock walkera FS can only be bought with a new head it seems other than that its a Align T-450-Pro replacement part that seems to have better tolerances.

Might start a new thread just to show each sub assembly as its put back together, if I have the time to put it all together with pics and text. This way you guys will have a reference when doing rebuilds, as it seems a lot of people own this now and can use some help with the logistics.

here are some pics with measurments and a breakdown of assembly.
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Old May 19, 2012, 02:35 PM
They call me plan B
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United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
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Yep yep. Super awesome also. But all my helis are different and i have to remember everything lol. They say its better for the bigger helis to be n gov mode. Its so windy , i want to fly



Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
Good guess. Elign ESC's have a very soft start....nice and smooth. Some like fast start for auto bailouts though and keep it off. Though for a HV hot 600 sometimes its needed so as to not destroy the gears on spool up, and also it helps with newer pilots from doing dirt piro's when spooling upbefore the tail gets a hold of things.
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Old May 19, 2012, 05:28 PM
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450 DFC head +

Ok, so after I got home from work this morning i tackled doing the Align 450 DFC head. Here some pics and info for ya.

The DFC shaft is a little too short for the stock setup, luckly I found a hint on another site for others doing the DFC conversion on align helis that you could get a bearing that is one MM shorter, and even better they are for a few Traxxas models so i found those at my local LHS Measurements are 5x11x4. First Pic is of the new shorter bearing next to the old one.
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As i was modding i decided to also go with the align helical (slanted gear) maindrive and pinion, and picked up a autorotation gear as well. [honestly this was just for ____ and giggles >=}~] so i used the align bearing and main gear case, to use these keep the sleeve from your original setup and do not use the brass washer from that and everything will fit perfect, and the align autorotation gear already has a metal lined inside making the need for that bushing pointless.
in this photo is the completed gear set, the bushing you don't need, and the helical pinion.
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After all that and putting the bearing in place I test fitted the DFC shaft and gears, guess what, PERFECT! no vertical play at all, this eliminates the need for a the stabilizer and the clamp that holds it as the DFC shaft has a lip made for catching the top bearing.
For this picture I attempted to get a shot of the lip that catches on the bearing, forgive me if you can't really tell, i'm working with a cellphone here.
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Next photo shows basically the completed setup.
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To wrap all this up, i didn't think before that the ball joints on the T-Rex are larger, so now i am waiting on a ball joint kit for the T-rex to get here so the pitch links off of the DFC arms will clip to the top of the swashplate.

Now for some notes.
450 DFC head does not come with thrust bearings (AGNHS1268) or feathering shaft (AGNH45021A, AGNH45021TA) the listed part numbers are the ones i used, which happen to be the genaric T-rex 450 parts making the more easily obtained.
Other than that not a big pain in the butt or anything, got to overhaul some stuff and enjoyed the modding.
Now for the rest of the random pictures i had.
(the pictures of the dampeners are for the post i glanced over refering to them, the left dampener is from the stock DFC head, middle are the KBDD ones people have been raving about, and right side is the stock V450 one, they're all the same size except the V450 is very soft and just pure rubber, no wonder they suck.)
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Old May 19, 2012, 05:44 PM
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V450 Dampeners

Just to clear up all doubt here is a picture of the V450 head with the KBDD dampeners that are made for the t-rex 450s it's a perfect fit.
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Old May 19, 2012, 05:49 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
HeliFlyer711's Avatar
United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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Nice job on this, be careful removing the swash balls on the upper bearing they are seriously made of butter, especially if they have been threadlocked. If thats the route your taking be sure to use some heat from a soldering iron to loosen up the threadlock first. Its a shame you cant go with a Trex 450 swash also right down to the servo arms.....since you came this far with it. But thats unescessary expense.

Curious to hear the flight report with the new head dampers and how the 2702V dial in. Its good your not geting any slop on the head, not sure it its production or the way people are assembleing. But I read some great reviews, some ok reviews and some bad reviews. Just like everything else. Pretty sure you are the first to run one of these on a V450 though.

Edit;
Im not sure the larger 4.75mm trex balls will fit the V450's swash as they have a thicker thread than stock, unless you tap it. The V450 top swash bearing doesnt give much to work with though and realizing all the load is at that point just make sure it's solid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonofpyro View Post
Ok, so after I got home from work this morning i tackled doing the Align 450 DFC head. Here some pics and info for ya.

The DFC shaft is a little too short for the stock setup, luckly I found a hint on another site for others doing the DFC conversion on align helis that you could get a bearing that is one MM shorter, and even better they are for a few Traxxas models so i found those at my local LHS Measurements are 5x11x4. First Pic is of the new shorter bearing next to the old one.
Attachment 4874323
As i was modding i decided to also go with the align helical (slanted gear) maindrive and pinion, and picked up a autorotation gear as well. [honestly this was just for ____ and giggles >=}~] so i used the align bearing and main gear case, to use these keep the sleeve from your original setup and do not use the brass washer from that and everything will fit perfect, and the align autorotation gear already has a metal lined inside making the need for that bushing pointless.
in this photo is the completed gear set, the bushing you don't need, and the helical pinion.
Attachment 4874337
Attachment 4874365
After all that and putting the bearing in place I test fitted the DFC shaft and gears, guess what, PERFECT! no vertical play at all, this eliminates the need for a the stabilizer and the clamp that holds it as the DFC shaft has a lip made for catching the top bearing.
For this picture I attempted to get a shot of the lip that catches on the bearing, forgive me if you can't really tell, i'm working with a cellphone here.
Attachment 4874381
Next photo shows basically the completed setup.
Attachment 4874383

To wrap all this up, i didn't think before that the ball joints on the T-Rex are larger, so now i am waiting on a ball joint kit for the T-rex to get here so the pitch links off of the DFC arms will clip to the top of the swashplate.

Now for some notes.
450 DFC head does not come with thrust bearings (AGNHS1268) or feathering shaft (AGNH45021A, AGNH45021TA) the listed part numbers are the ones i used, which happen to be the genaric T-rex 450 parts making the more easily obtained.
Other than that not a big pain in the butt or anything, got to overhaul some stuff and enjoyed the modding.
Now for the rest of the random pictures i had.
(the pictures of the dampeners are for the post i glanced over refering to them, the left dampener is from the stock DFC head, middle are the KBDD ones people have been raving about, and right side is the stock V450 one, they're all the same size except the V450 is very soft and just pure rubber, no wonder they suck.)
Attachment 4874393
Attachment 4874394
Attachment 4874395
Attachment 4874396
Attachment 4874397
Attachment 4874398
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Old May 19, 2012, 05:56 PM
Registered User
Joined Dec 2011
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V450 Canopy

I e-mailed that company about postage to the US for the Canopy
Here is what i got back:

Hi,

Thanks for your email.
The shipment cost for USA will be 17 euros to your order.
To add this cost, go to "Frais de port pour l'international" and select "FRAIS DE PORT - 17 euros" and add it to your
cart contents with the FUSUNO canopy.
http://www.rc-helicopters-cars.fr/#F...AIS_DE_PORT_17

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Yeah, at least no one got hurt is what i keep telling myself. At least all the servos are still in working order.

Your link only had the 1 v450 canopy. I had to click the v450 link to see the rest. Probably some kind of html problem with the linking because i can't seem to directly link to them all either. Its weird because i've looked before and never found them. I guess i can throw out my half finished canopy form i was going to use to make a mold. No point making them now.

So wow those are almost $40 USD before shipping. I suppose thats not too horrible, supposedly they make a good quality FG canopy that is fairly resistant to cracking and is actually somewhat flexible.
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Old May 19, 2012, 05:59 PM
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Joined Dec 2011
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Thanks for the tips, i'll see what i can do. I was thinking about getting the swash but the offset on the ball link where the stabilizer is just seems way off, and i haven't looked into it much, if you have any info please let me know.
I'll try to get her up and flying soon, i need helibiggie to come back into town so i have a reason to drive out somewhere to fly =D

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
Nice job on this, be careful removing the swash balls on the upper bearing they are seriously made of butter, especially if they have been threadlocked. If thats the route your taking be sure to use some heat from a soldering iron to loosen up the threadlock first. Its a shame you cant go with a Trex 450 swash also right down to the servo arms.....since you came this far with it. But thats unescessary expense.

Curious to hear the flight report with the new head dampers and how the 2702V dial in. Its good your not geting any slop on the head, not sure it its production or the way people are assembleing. But I read some great reviews, some ok reviews and some bad reviews. Just like everything else. Pretty sure you are the first to run one of these on a V450 though.

Edit;
Im not sure the larger 4.75mm trex balls will fit the V450's swash as they have a thicker thread than stock, unless you tap it. The V450 top swash bearing doesnt give much to work with though and realizing all the load is at that point just make sure it's solid.
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Old May 19, 2012, 06:10 PM
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to do initial conversion was a bit pricey but i had bombed the heck out of my heli so it was just part of the repairs i'll try to list the essentials, and on top of that i'm still debating if i'm going to need to convert to align swashplate due to ball joint sizes.

DFC Head: $50 (should come with shaft)
5x11x4mm bearings: $6
Feathering shaft x2: $7
Thrust Bearings x2: $7

then after that honestly it's about getting the ball joins from the arms to link to the swash (that is what I am still debating on, there are a few ideas on how i could approach this)

Pitch Range i would almost guarantee is better than before, if you check the pictures from earlier you will see that there is no obstruction for the swash movement now, so once you set your linkages and / or servos you have the entire main shaft to move on, no more stabilizer getting in the way

Ohh and i believe i picked the head up off of a reputable seller on EBay.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Whats up with this? where can i get these parts. I just ordered the whole Walkera rotor head for $40, what is this going to run and what is the max efficient pitch range since the shaft is shorter?

I found this but they don't have them in stock yet, but its a little bit more costly, not bad:
http://helidirect.com/align-450dfc-m...62-p-26502.hdx

If this sucker works on the v450, It's a much better design IMO and I will be getting it, when it's available.
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Old May 19, 2012, 07:18 PM
IHW Heli Division
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
Started the rebuild with tearing down the head, cleaning with alchohol then re-greasing/packing the Thrust bearings with some tri-flow synthetic bearing grease. I measured the Dampers on the V450 head they seem to be the same as the v2 ones in the pro head. Also found the Align FS is ever so slightly shorter than stock, this makes the blade grips not have that slight play. I installed the Align replacement part and the grips are tight with no play, still smooth without any notchyness. The stock walkera FS can only be bought with a new head it seems other than that its a Align T-450-Pro replacement part that seems to have better tolerances.

Might start a new thread just to show each sub assembly as its put back together, if I have the time to put it all together with pics and text. This way you guys will have a reference when doing rebuilds, as it seems a lot of people own this now and can use some help with the logistics.

here are some pics with measurments and a breakdown of assembly.
It's very strange that you say your findings are that the align FS/spindle shaft is shorter. I have these installed in my V450 head and one of the blade grips had an extra brass bushing/sleeve inside of it to add some spacing and there is still the slightest bit of play. I thought this was causing my wobble, but it was not. The play was very minimal but i'm assuming the previous owner used the extra bushing in the one blade grip to sure up the whole shaft/head assembly. Without it there would be too much play. I am using 450 Pro spindles that come in a 2 pack with the 2 dampener bushings.

I have already measured and came to the conclusion that the v450 dampeners are the same as the Align V2 dampeners. I thought i had posted to tell you about that too, HF711. Sorry if i didn't update you on that. I have already ordered a 4 pack of the Trueblood green dampeners. They are supposed to be harder, or at least as hard as the KBDD dampeners but they are green. Unfortunately for me i crashed and have to replace my whole head anyway, but I think i will use the trueblood ones anyway and save the new stock ones for spares.

As far as those Align Main gears go, thats totally the way to go. You get a 3 pack of the main gears for CHEAP compared to the main gear set for the v450 that only has 1 main and 1 AR gear. I have a handful of AR gears that came with my heli when i bought it used, plus 3 that i added to the collection myself. I have yet to strip the AR Gear. Plus the patented align main gear will help keep your ESC and motor cooler, usefull i suppose for the stock motor, which is an electric stove outfitted on an RC heli. I'm still on the fence about the helical gears though. I wonder if you can still slide the gear out on the sides to replace it or if it is necessary to back up the motor pinion or something. I suppose it will still match up easily if you push the new one in from the side? I don't know if there is any actual benefit to the helical gear. I am running a TA 804 motor with a Rhino Steel pinion because i broke the brass pinion so easily. Seems to be working out good so far.

I was looking at maybe getting a v500 because i found one very cheap, but after looking at the replacement part's cost. I decided i'll just stick to v450 and smaller. The main gear assembly alone for the v500 is $35 and that ish is plastic.
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Old May 19, 2012, 07:33 PM
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Yes the gears still slip in and out of the side, there was no chassis disassembly in my rebuild. at worst i had to move the motor back a hair, but had to do that because of difference in pinion size when i changed them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
It's very strange that you say your findings are that the align FS/spindle shaft is shorter. I have these installed in my V450 head and one of the blade grips had an extra brass bushing/sleeve inside of it to add some spacing and there is still the slightest bit of play. I thought this was causing my wobble, but it was not. The play was very minimal but i'm assuming the previous owner used the extra bushing in the one blade grip to sure up the whole shaft/head assembly. Without it there would be too much play. I am using 450 Pro spindles that come in a 2 pack with the 2 dampener bushings.

I have already measured and came to the conclusion that the v450 dampeners are the same as the Align V2 dampeners. I thought i had posted to tell you about that too, HF711. Sorry if i didn't update you on that. I have already ordered a 4 pack of the Trueblood green dampeners. They are supposed to be harder, or at least as hard as the KBDD dampeners but they are green. Unfortunately for me i crashed and have to replace my whole head anyway, but I think i will use the trueblood ones anyway and save the new stock ones for spares.

As far as those Align Main gears go, thats totally the way to go. You get a 3 pack of the main gears for CHEAP compared to the main gear set for the v450 that only has 1 main and 1 AR gear. I have a handful of AR gears that came with my heli when i bought it used, plus 3 that i added to the collection myself. I have yet to strip the AR Gear. Plus the patented align main gear will help keep your ESC and motor cooler, usefull i suppose for the stock motor, which is an electric stove outfitted on an RC heli. I'm still on the fence about the helical gears though. I wonder if you can still slide the gear out on the sides to replace it or if it is necessary to back up the motor pinion or something. I suppose it will still match up easily if you push the new one in from the side? I don't know if there is any actual benefit to the helical gear. I am running a TA 804 motor with a Rhino Steel pinion because i broke the brass pinion so easily. Seems to be working out good so far.

I was looking at maybe getting a v500 because i found one very cheap, but after looking at the replacement part's cost. I decided i'll just stick to v450 and smaller. The main gear assembly alone for the v500 is $35 and that ish is plastic.
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