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Old May 06, 2012, 03:53 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
5,937 Posts
Head wobble

Ok, since i have developed this "wobble" in the head, when i let off the throttle it seems the worst. It even appears in idle up with 100% throttle. I can't seem to figure out what is causing it. I took the thrust bearings apart, cleaned and used a tri-flo like lube on them. Put everything back together and still have the wobble. The dampeners that some have suggested are to blame look brand new still but outdoor temp has risen like 5-10 degrees in the afternoons since i got the heli. Maybe the extra heat is softening them? The only other thing i can think it might be is the blades i have on it right now are not balanced and i don't have a blade balancer. I notice a little bit of play in the blade grips if I try and twist them while the linkages and everything are attached. So they have a small amount of wobble in the pitching of the blade grips. I think this might be the cause. I'm going to flip the inside of the thrust bearings around and see if this helps. The exp diagram is not very good. I would appreciate some explanation if anyone knows how they are supposed to be assembled or have pictures. Mine do not come out of the blade grip very easy. I think I'm just going to eventually buy a new head assy.

One other stupid issue i'm having is once i turn on my throttle hold on the 450 i cant turn it back off without the helicopter spinning up. This is the reason i neglected to even hit the TH switch when my ESC browned out yesterday because my tail servo went bad. Why does it work this way? I cant seem to figure it out. Its it my TX settings? I should be able to TH in mid air and turn it back off and still keep my throttle off by moving the stick to the bottom. I have not tried yet, but i'm scared i won't be able to spin the helicopter down all the way and will have to wait for the battery to over deplete.
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Old May 06, 2012, 03:58 PM
"Watch this!.... Oh crap"
jhebbel's Avatar
United States, FL, Seminole
Joined Jan 2012
1,156 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradheli1 View Post
Hi Again, I'm back, with more questions if you don't mind.

I have spend lots of time leveling, balancing and it is pretty darn smooth. However, I'm still stuck with a few things. a) I can't get the gyro to control the rudder. When I move the bird around, the gyro attempts to keep the swash level, but is doesn't try to counteract the motion on the rudder. Also when I have my Gyro above 50%, the rudder moves slow and sleepy and does not promptly move back to center. My WOW instructions, that worked fine before my crash has the gyro set to 80% on 0 and 1 with no previous issues. If I got to below 50%, it is crisper, less sleepy, but the gyro still does not control the rudder??

I read in the instructions, right at the beginning, that in mode 2, the PIT and the AILE servos are inverted, and should be switched at the receiver. I looked at that and tried that, but it seems wrong, it works correctly when the PIT is connected PIT and AILE is connected to AILE. Was this for an early model?

Any ideas or hints?
I recently had a similar issue, check you tail pitch travel amounts, are full negitave and full positive about the same, and when the servo horn is in mid neutral position are the blades pretty much at 0deg pitch on tail? if not try doing the mechanical adjustment, i didnt realize the hub on my tail and worked its way inboard and managed to mess everything up and i for the life of me couldent figure it out either, i waisted a bunch of time playing with the gyro instead of looking at what was right in front of my face. FYI ive found that in the 65 percent gyro hold setting i get the smoothest flight.
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Old May 06, 2012, 06:45 PM
Genius CP, V450D01, CB180Z
bradheli1's Avatar
Canada, BC, Nelson
Joined Apr 2012
187 Posts
Hi, thanks for the help, but still no go. I have the tail set up even and I have gone through the setup many times.

To be very clear, the rudder is not being controlled by the gyro. If I lift it up and turn the nose to the left, the tail should react with a pitch adjustment... but it doesn't. It did before I crashed it.

More clues..... If I set the gyro gain to 80 as per my WOW instructions, I get slow returning pitch adjustment... it acts in slow motion and erratically.. and still it doesn't react to twisting or any other motion with a counteracting tail pitch change.

If I set the gain to lower than 50.. say 35, then the slow operation and craziness goes away, it works right, but still the tail doesn't react to the gyro. I'm sure it supposed to as per 10.5.5 of the instructions

I have changed the tail servo. Same. I have no shakes or vibrations anymore. I keep thinking I'm missing a switch somewhere.. or something simple. The tail servo works fine, the setup works fine, but it just won't respond to the gyro.

The Aileron and Elevator do respond to the gyro and adjust to keep the swash level when tilted.

If I had one, I'd be trying to swap the receiver... but it seems to be working in every other way. Its also 14 days to get one here.

OK helicopter detectives, has anyone seen this on a V450D01... WOW version, Ace motor, MG servos?

It flew great for a year... then came the new years party......
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Old May 06, 2012, 06:51 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
5,937 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradheli1 View Post
Hi, thanks for the help, but still no go. I have the tail set up even and I have gone through the setup many times.

To be very clear, the rudder is not being controlled by the gyro. If I lift it up and turn the nose to the left, the tail should react with a pitch adjustment... but it doesn't. It did before I crashed it.

More clues..... If I set the gyro gain to 80 as per my WOW instructions, I get slow returning pitch adjustment... it acts in slow motion and erratically.. and still it doesn't react to twisting or any other motion with a counteracting tail pitch change.

If I set the gain to lower than 50.. say 35, then the slow operation and craziness goes away, it works right, but still the tail doesn't react to the gyro. I'm sure it supposed to as per 10.5.5 of the instructions

I have changed the tail servo. Same. I have no shakes or vibrations anymore. I keep thinking I'm missing a switch somewhere.. or something simple. The tail servo works fine, the setup works fine, but it just won't respond to the gyro.

The Aileron and Elevator do respond to the gyro and adjust to keep the swash level when tilted.

If I had one, I'd be trying to swap the receiver... but it seems to be working in every other way. Its also 14 days to get one here.

OK helicopter detectives, has anyone seen this on a V450D01... WOW version, Ace motor, MG servos?

It flew great for a year... then came the new years party......
It's sounding more and more like your RX might be bad. But i doubt a crash would just deactivate your tail gyro. When you bind up does the led stay lit constant red after? It might be stuck in rate mode for some reason. Very strange issue.
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Old May 06, 2012, 06:58 PM
Genius CP, V450D01, CB180Z
bradheli1's Avatar
Canada, BC, Nelson
Joined Apr 2012
187 Posts
Its me again......

I have a few post on here, still trying to sort out the last details of my rebuild. I'm using the re-written instructions as my bible.

One area on the new instructions in in 10.5.5. There is a picture of the receiver, and and arrow calling the RUDD REVERSE, but its pointing to the AILE and ELEV rev switches. No big deal, but maybe its a clue to what I'm missing.

The switch that is called RUDD REVERSE, next to the TAIL SET / SW SET switch.... is the correct Rudder reverse switch right? The other switch is used to switch between setting the rudder and the swash.... right?

I must be missing something so I need to ask these dumb basic questions. Thanks!!!
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Old May 06, 2012, 07:52 PM
Genius CP, V450D01, CB180Z
bradheli1's Avatar
Canada, BC, Nelson
Joined Apr 2012
187 Posts
Regarding very strange issue... I know, it does start to point at the RX. But it seems like so much of it is working correctly.... everything but the tail pitch isn't changing as you move it around. Am I missing something? It should right?

Is there a way of totally re-setting the RX? Like a reset. I see in the manual there is a procedure for clearing the ID memory with a shorting plug on AUX 2 of the RX, but this doesn't sound like what I'm trying to do... or maybe it is??

Maybe WOW hobby guy can tell us if he has ever seen this before. It is a WOW bird.

I miss my V450. It flew so well for so long

Has anyone ever seen the tail pitch not being controlled by the gyro when you twist and roll it around? Is there a setting hidden somewhere to turn this on or off? I have a 2801 TX.

Thanks!
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Old May 06, 2012, 08:20 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
5,937 Posts
Ok, so i've been trying to tackle this infamous wobble issue that developed out of no where after i took the blade grips off one day. Its weird, but i've done everything i can, its either the dampeners or the play in the servos. I flipped the center part of the thrust bearing and the wobble was slightly less, but still exists. Loosening the blade grips till the blades move freely actually reduces the wobble, i suppose by allowing the blades to flex around more. Since i cant afford a whole new set of servos yet, I will be ordering the Trueblood Green dampeners the next time i have an order. Hopefully this will fix the issue. I think it might be possible i am not compressing the FS parts enough to put pressure on the dampeners, squeezing them more would result in a tighter grip on the FS. I can't think of any other reason this would occur right after taking the blade grips off for the first time. I can't help but wonder if because i have an align FS that could be the problem.
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Old May 06, 2012, 09:28 PM
They call me plan B
Heli Biggie's Avatar
United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
1,996 Posts
I have a wobble at low throttle at start up up it goes away quickly. Do you have you rx gains all the way down? You must balance the blades. And check the tracking , could you make a video??? I would watch it for help. The last time i had a bad wobble. I put on a blde wrong lol.. Crazy wobble.

I have been upping my 3d but i have not flown the v450 in a week , so it has not had it maiden roll. I will get that soon .its a very cool trick to add to my collection of tricks? I have done a roll with my trex 600
align trex 600 3d 7th flight.MP4 (6 min 4 sec)

Please enjoy


Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Ok, so i've been trying to tackle this infamous wobble issue that developed out of no where after i took the blade grips off one day. Its weird, but i've done everything i can, its either the dampeners or the play in the servos. I flipped the center part of the thrust bearing and the wobble was slightly less, but still exists. Loosening the blade grips till the blades move freely actually reduces the wobble, i suppose by allowing the blades to flex around more. Since i cant afford a whole new set of servos yet, I will be ordering the Trueblood Green dampeners the next time i have an order. Hopefully this will fix the issue. I think it might be possible i am not compressing the FS parts enough to put pressure on the dampeners, squeezing them more would result in a tighter grip on the FS. I can't think of any other reason this would occur right after taking the blade grips off for the first time. I can't help but wonder if because i have an align FS that could be the problem.
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Old May 07, 2012, 04:23 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
5,937 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
I have a wobble at low throttle at start up up it goes away quickly. Do you have you rx gains all the way down? You must balance the blades. And check the tracking , could you make a video??? I would watch it for help. The last time i had a bad wobble. I put on a blde wrong lol.. Crazy wobble.

I have been upping my 3d but i have not flown the v450 in a week , so it has not had it maiden roll. I will get that soon .its a very cool trick to add to my collection of tricks? I have done a roll with my trex 600
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTWYs...e_gdata_player
Please enjoy
Man it sounds like you have like no wind there at all ever! lucky!

Well i have some videos that are not zoomed too well so i don't know if you can see much but here they are:

http://integrityhandiwork.com/ebay/H...Fleet/V450D01/

2 of them there from saturday. I think the second one down plays automatically when loaded. Anyway I still don't have a blade balancer. But to know for sure if the blade balance was the problem i changed the blades back to the stock blades i had on before the wobble appeared. It appeared after i took apart the head lubed the thrust bearing and put it back together with the new white blades. The stock blades actually wobbled more, and I'm fairly sure they are balanced okay. There was no problem before doing all of this. I suppose there could be a bend somewhere too. I put the white blades back on, i accidentally put one on backwards !?! The blade tracking was off by a lot! but the heli didn't wobble at all. I'm surprised it actually flew and didn't crash. Flipped the blade and the wobble is better than with stock blades but still there. I suppose i should take the blades off and check for the wobble with just the head on there and see what happens. You'll notice I mention in the video at some point the tail wobbles on me at some point. 2 flights later the tail servo went bad lol. That thing probably helped burn out my first ESC. I also say the wobble is better or almost gone. Well it got worse, and is still there almost always.

As far as 3d, here is another link to my v120 3d attempts on the same day. Video is not zoomed stil.

http://www.integrityhandiwork.com/eb...3d%20attempts/
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Old May 07, 2012, 09:10 AM
"Watch this!.... Oh crap"
jhebbel's Avatar
United States, FL, Seminole
Joined Jan 2012
1,156 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Ok, so i've been trying to tackle this infamous wobble issue that developed out of no where after i took the blade grips off one day. Its weird, but i've done everything i can, its either the dampeners or the play in the servos. I flipped the center part of the thrust bearing and the wobble was slightly less, but still exists. Loosening the blade grips till the blades move freely actually reduces the wobble, i suppose by allowing the blades to flex around more. Since i cant afford a whole new set of servos yet, I will be ordering the Trueblood Green dampeners the next time i have an order. Hopefully this will fix the issue. I think it might be possible i am not compressing the FS parts enough to put pressure on the dampeners, squeezing them more would result in a tighter grip on the FS. I can't think of any other reason this would occur right after taking the blade grips off for the first time. I can't help but wonder if because i have an align FS that could be the problem.
I agree with biggie, sounds like a tracking or balancing issue.
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Old May 07, 2012, 02:19 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
HeliFlyer711's Avatar
United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
2,219 Posts
Hyperion EOS Pack Sentry v2.0

I wanted to show you guys this little gadjet to keep your lipos in good working order for the season and beyond. Its called the Hyperion EOS Pack Sentry and this is the latest version (v2.0) of this device. Today's 3S Lipos are cheap maybe 20+ bucks a piece for decent ones. But when you have 10 of them thats 200.00+, not a lot but maybe worth investing 25.00 to insure. Forget the money, theres nothing like going to the field and finding out your lipos are weak and/or dying on you when your all set up to fly for the day (it happens). Plus you get the tools to see exactly whats going on with your packs. Im all about insurance LOL Car insurance, life insurance, house insurance, I've read that J-Lo even insures her ass for 10 million. So why not a lipo.


Anywhay here is the website for all the specs.....
http://www.hyperion-world.com/produc...HP-EOS07SENTRY

http://media.hyperion.hk/dn/sentry/m...ryMan12-EN.pdf - and the manual

The great thing about this meter is that it has a built in balancer, and will take all the cells to within .005v or less of each other. Essentially a perfectly balanced pack, and a perfectly balanced pack should stay balanced on discharge and charge for a few cycles so it doesnt have to be done eveytime. Just let the lipo sit on the device and its automatic.

Other than that it shows;
1) Percentage bar - when you fly after the flight, plug your lipo into the EOS and it should show 20% or above. Its a no brainer to follow the 80% rule this way. Especially if you fly all different sizes and S type of packs......20% is 20% adjust flight time accordingly

2) Total combined cell voltage at a glance

3) Individual cell voltage w/ percentage bar at a glance

4) Min/Max cell voltage

5) Cell Differential Voltage between Max/Min

6) Integrated balancer

I paid 25.00 for mine shipped, and at the time didnt know it had the built in balancer in it, once I found that out it was a keeper for sure. 3S lipos tend to get abused, because most times they are charged on RTF chargers or cheap 6S 50W chargers that have less than adequate balancers built in.. This little device should get you more use out of your packs, knowing when to stop flying and keeping cells balanced. It will pay for itself over time IMO.

Here are some PIcs;
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Old May 07, 2012, 04:16 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
5,937 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhebbel View Post
I agree with biggie, sounds like a tracking or balancing issue.
Yeah, but I'm pretty sure a blade tracking or balancing issue would not show up on 2 sets of blades, one of which definitely did not have this issue previously. The wobble is ONLY when the heli is hovering or if i move side to side or something it might occur when the heli stalls or slows down to turn. If its moving around its stable and fine. Unbalanced blades would have a constant vibe from spool up to idle up. At least in my experience, the vibe from that would be constant. I have done half turns to full turns on each individual pitch linkage separately to see if it helps the tracking at all. To the eye the tracking is already dead on, but i tried anyway. All that did was raise or lower one of the blades out of line with the other. So I'm pretty sure its not the tracking. I could be totally wrong though. I'll be trying new dampeners next and if that does not work I'll probably get a new head assembly anyway just for parts.

I'll shoot a video later if the rain clears up. I'll put on my FPV goggles and hat cam and try and get some zoomed footage of the heli spooling up, hovering, and moving around some. With the fpv goggles on with my hat cam i should be able to follow the heli pretty good, i hope. I need to find a willing camera man lol.
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Old May 07, 2012, 04:27 PM
Folding Spacetime
navigator2011's Avatar
United States, CA, Fullerton
Joined Jul 2011
1,915 Posts
Hi Heliflyer711, thanks for the lead on the balancer. As soon as I saw your post, I went and ordered one of my own. I've been struggling with batteries not balancing very well on my ThunderA6 charger.
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Old May 07, 2012, 04:54 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
HeliFlyer711's Avatar
United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
2,219 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by navigator2011 View Post
Hi Heliflyer711, thanks for the lead on the balancer. As soon as I saw your post, I went and ordered one of my own. I've been struggling with batteries not balancing very well on my ThunderA6 charger.
Hey thats cool...... you will like it, I use it all the time now and its just good piece of mind knowing the lipos are balanced and at full capacity. I have a X-605 6S charger and the balancer over time has started to go soft on it, even after calibration. So this was a nice addition as opposed to buying a new charger.
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Old May 07, 2012, 06:04 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
5,937 Posts
I have tracked down the source of my wobble. Its in the servo movement of one or both of the older 09-9 Version 1 servos. The brand new V2 09-9 is rock solid still. The one servo moves very loosely so i decided to take it apart to look for damage. There is no damage to the gears that i can see. Far as i can tell everything is working properly. When you try to turn the bell crank with the power off it moves very easy compared to the other 2. I noticed it today right away when the heli binded to the TX with the blades turned sideways. the blades wobbled like crazy so i had to investigate. I can't tell whats causing the looseness inside the servo though, not that i inspected it much anyway. I need to replace them all anyhow. But i greased the gears hoping it would dampen them some, and it did a little. I'm going to test fly it and see what it does.

Update:
After test flying quickly before the rain came back, the wobble is all but gone. Greasing the servo gears with silicone grease has apparently nullified some of the play in the servo. I'll still have to order a new set. I think i'll try the savox ones.

Now can someone tell my why after hitting throttle hold and turning it off the helicopter will spin up no matter what?
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