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Old Jan 14, 2011, 04:45 PM
Registered User
United States, NJ
Joined Jan 2011
137 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesusfrijmagnet View Post
I received my v450 yesterday and after preparing her last night I took her out for first hover and trimming today. Hovered beautifully and only needed very minor trimming and attention to blade tracking. After hovering twice for about a min each I stopped for 2-3 min then went back for more... After hovering for about a minute again - poof - a puff of smoke and power to the motor is lost - luckily only a foot or so off the ground. I go to check the heli and hear the motor beep??? After checking it out everything looked fine except for very hot motor + esc and the smell of fried electronics. Surprisingly after a stutter the heli started again and I was able to hover again but required a lot more throttle. I was surprised it even went. After inspection I found that maybe the belt was a bit tight but it didn't seem too bad? Everything smooth etc. I have adjusted it and fit an align motor and speedy from another project so I'll see how she goes tomorrow. Anyone else fried a speedy?

It happened to me too. Good thing mine still in the ground. I have noticed that the main blade is not rotating freely and probably because of the tail blade being tight. This might have caused stress to the motor resulting it to be fried.
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Old Jan 14, 2011, 04:48 PM
Days w/o Incident : Zero
desertflyer1's Avatar
Tucson, AZ
Joined Sep 2009
362 Posts
whoa, wow, wicked

I just got a chance to fly my V450 today. Holy cow this thing is wicked!
Darryl did set it up for me, checked swash, ball links, zeroed the trims so it flies perfectly and will hover at hands off. I take no credit for the set up. It is troubling to hear the prior post that the motor burned up, i did read that some are experiencing issues with overheating. I felt around the battery/motor esc, and it wasn't too bad but i was only hovering, no stunt modes.
It's a very snappy heli and the light weight sure does make it fly 'light' and nimble with super authority.
Very excited about this 'out of the box' 450.
And THANKS as always Darryl for your help!

ps- that video of Jose flying is unreal. in fact, it looks like it was CGI'd..
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Old Jan 15, 2011, 09:31 AM
Days w/o Incident : Zero
desertflyer1's Avatar
Tucson, AZ
Joined Sep 2009
362 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by LevTor View Post
It happened to me too. Good thing mine still in the ground. I have noticed that the main blade is not rotating freely and probably because of the tail blade being tight. This might have caused stress to the motor resulting it to be fried.
I also would like to know if anyone else is having persistent problems with heat/and or fried electronics. Would be fortunate to have this info prior to blowing out an ESC or motor. Wonder if there is an inherent design flaw that needs to be addressed. For now, I am going to keep the flights real mellow.
I believe wowhobbies mentioned a turbo ace replacement that has a 'cool' system or the like?
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Old Jan 15, 2011, 08:15 PM
Registered User
los angeles,ca
Joined May 2010
2,590 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertflyer1 View Post
I just got a chance to fly my V450 today. Holy cow this thing is wicked!
Darryl did set it up for me, checked swash, ball links, zeroed the trims so it flies perfectly and will hover at hands off. I take no credit for the set up. It is troubling to hear the prior post that the motor burned up, i did read that some are experiencing issues with overheating. I felt around the battery/motor esc, and it wasn't too bad but i was only hovering, no stunt modes.
It's a very snappy heli and the light weight sure does make it fly 'light' and nimble with super authority.
Very excited about this 'out of the box' 450.
And THANKS as always Darryl for your help!

ps- that video of Jose flying is unreal. in fact, it looks like it was CGI'd..
I was there when Jose and Manuel where flying. They completely stock with upgrade motors. Jose flew right after trex 450 pro. They both awesome dudes. Vronny p.s. Your in great hands if DK set it up. He setup your 1#a
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 05:40 AM
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fassla's Avatar
Vienna, Austria
Joined Jun 2008
48 Posts
had my fist flights today.
perfect heli and very stable. As basis for my settings I used the dkfuji settings.
As I do not fly 3D I just need to change the Swashmix in order to make it comfortable for me.
Regarding the temperatue i do not have any problem, also the belt tension was out of the box "perfect".
For sure this heli is the best one I ever had in hand

Thx to dkfuji for all the tipps in the forum and PN

for easy hoover and 8 turns the change in setup

Curves: Thrcuve -> Norm: 0-25-39-56-70

Swaats: Swashmix
Elev +40%
Aile +40%
Pit. +40%

I have to check again the max headspeed - as for non 3D it is by far to high ;-)
Keep you informed - i will make a setup with 0 pitch and speed up to hell ;-)
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Last edited by fassla; Jan 16, 2011 at 08:51 AM.
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 11:07 AM
mSR,120SR,4G6S,UFLYS,1#A, v450d
Geneva, Switzerland
Joined Oct 2010
134 Posts
Guys, I have three quick questions:

- How do you measure pitch without a flybar?
- How do you disable the 3-axis gyro during mechanical setup? (or is it not a factor?)
- How do you adjust the tail belt tension? Mine is way too tight and the ESC gets super hot after a short hover!

Thanks a bunch!
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 02:13 PM
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Joined Jan 2011
1 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertflyer1 View Post
I also would like to know if anyone else is having persistent problems with heat/and or fried electronics. Would be fortunate to have this info prior to blowing out an ESC or motor. Wonder if there is an inherent design flaw that needs to be addressed. For now, I am going to keep the flights real mellow.
I believe wowhobbies mentioned a turbo ace replacement that has a 'cool' system or the like?
I'm actually also having troubles with my motor. My V450d01 was hovering (all I did) quite okay for about 60 minutes total flight time when all of a sudden two days ago the motor did somehow sound strangely and I had to land immediately (few inches above ground). It could not have been heat, since the motor went out within one minute after I started flying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpone View Post
Hi deeheli,
Too soft? So you think the shaft in the brushless motor bends?
Now that is one thing I would like to see happening :-)
Actually my motor shaft did (as far as I know) not bend but break! And I didn't like to see it . I do not know why this happened, because I never even slightly crashed it. Could it possibly be that the motor was put too close to the main gear? I mean I did check all I could, but I assumed the heli was put together correctly. Any advice?
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 02:22 PM
mSR,120SR,4G6S,UFLYS,1#A, v450d
Geneva, Switzerland
Joined Oct 2010
134 Posts
Guys, while I'm waiting for help on the above 3 questions here is another issue I would like some feedback on.

So first I had some vibrations and had to balance the main blades and she's pretty smooth now. So I went ahead and did a complete mechanical setup. I saw in DKFUJI's settings earlier that he didn't use any sub trim. I prefer to use subtrim on the cyclics to get the arms perfectly 90 after finding the best servo arm positions possible by swapping them around.

Now this being my first FBL heli what do you use as a reference to find swash travel center? I tried my best to guesstimate it and tried to level the swash as best I could.

After setting the blade pitch at 0 for center stick and going through the RX setup I found that I have major swash interactions. Basically at full positive or negative collective the elevator pitch range decreases quite a bit. It's not as bad for the aileron.
The swash travels flat throughout the collective range with the right stick centered. Only if I hold ail or ele do I get interactions.

So my question is to those who have a 3D setup and successfully flipped and inverted the heli: does your swash change if you hold full back elevator and go from full negative to full positive collective?

I was successful eliminating any such interactions on my 1#A but I'm a bit stumped with this heli. I seem to get a very limited range of swash travel without interactions.

Thanks!
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 04:04 PM
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Teckos's Avatar
Joined Jan 2009
484 Posts
Subtrims usually affect your servo travel endpoints. Try without subtrims and see if all three servos keep the swash at its current level for the whole pitch range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kutyafal View Post
Guys, while I'm waiting for help on the above 3 questions here is another issue I would like some feedback on.

So first I had some vibrations and had to balance the main blades and she's pretty smooth now. So I went ahead and did a complete mechanical setup. I saw in DKFUJI's settings earlier that he didn't use any sub trim. I prefer to use subtrim on the cyclics to get the arms perfectly 90 after finding the best servo arm positions possible by swapping them around.

Now this being my first FBL heli what do you use as a reference to find swash travel center? I tried my best to guesstimate it and tried to level the swash as best I could.

After setting the blade pitch at 0 for center stick and going through the RX setup I found that I have major swash interactions. Basically at full positive or negative collective the elevator pitch range decreases quite a bit. It's not as bad for the aileron.
The swash travels flat throughout the collective range with the right stick centered. Only if I hold ail or ele do I get interactions.

So my question is to those who have a 3D setup and successfully flipped and inverted the heli: does your swash change if you hold full back elevator and go from full negative to full positive collective?

I was successful eliminating any such interactions on my 1#A but I'm a bit stumped with this heli. I seem to get a very limited range of swash travel without interactions.

Thanks!
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 04:13 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
371 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kutyafal View Post
Guys, while I'm waiting for help on the above 3 questions here is another issue I would like some feedback on.

So first I had some vibrations and had to balance the main blades and she's pretty smooth now. So I went ahead and did a complete mechanical setup. I saw in DKFUJI's settings earlier that he didn't use any sub trim. I prefer to use subtrim on the cyclics to get the arms perfectly 90 after finding the best servo arm positions possible by swapping them around.

Now this being my first FBL heli what do you use as a reference to find swash travel center? I tried my best to guesstimate it and tried to level the swash as best I could.

After setting the blade pitch at 0 for center stick and going through the RX setup I found that I have major swash interactions. Basically at full positive or negative collective the elevator pitch range decreases quite a bit. It's not as bad for the aileron.
The swash travels flat throughout the collective range with the right stick centered. Only if I hold ail or ele do I get interactions.

So my question is to those who have a 3D setup and successfully flipped and inverted the heli: does your swash change if you hold full back elevator and go from full negative to full positive collective?

I was successful eliminating any such interactions on my 1#A but I'm a bit stumped with this heli. I seem to get a very limited range of swash travel without interactions.

Thanks!

When you did the RX setup what settings did you use for Swash Mix?
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 05:56 PM
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rew-7's Avatar
UK, Leeds.
Joined Mar 2009
398 Posts
Hi Rio

Just checked mine in idle up on a flat surface (not during the set up procedure-with the gyros disabled) and I also get uneven swash travel. I had my suspicions when flipping back from inverted-rolling forward is faster (I think). Like you mine is on 4F200 and I'm using large pitch travel but I haven't measure how much it yet.
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Old Jan 16, 2011, 06:40 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
371 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rew-7 View Post
Hi Rio

Just checked mine in idle up on a flat surface (not during the set up procedure-with the gyros disabled) and I also get uneven swash travel. I had my suspicions when flipping back from inverted-rolling forward is faster (I think). Like you mine is on 4F200 and I'm using large pitch travel but I haven't measure how much it yet.
On my 4F200 When I do the RX travel setup. My swash mix settings are all 100%. After the RX travel setup, I set my Swash mix settings at: AIL=28%, ELE= 28%, PIT =-45%. I get +/-12 pitch, and 7 degrees cyclic (measured at the blade,not the swash), with no interaction. Because of the geometry of the swash links, there is less angular travel at the blade than at the swash for cyclic input. If you want 7 degrees travel at the blade from cyclic, then the swash has to tilt more than that.
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Old Jan 17, 2011, 02:27 AM
mSR,120SR,4G6S,UFLYS,1#A, v450d
Geneva, Switzerland
Joined Oct 2010
134 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ri0grand View Post
On my 4F200 When I do the RX travel setup. My swash mix settings are all 100%. After the RX travel setup, I set my Swash mix settings at: AIL=28%, ELE= 28%, PIT =-45%. I get +/-12 pitch, and 7 degrees cyclic (measured at the blade,not the swash), with no interaction. Because of the geometry of the swash links, there is less angular travel at the blade than at the swash for cyclic input. If you want 7 degrees travel at the blade from cyclic, then the swash has to tilt more than that.
OK, I'll try to do the setup with 100% swash mix and then adjust to see what happens. I did the setup with 40% all around. Btw, during the middle part of swash travel it travels evenly - i.e.: maintains the angle I input on the cyclic. Only at the end points (both + and -) do the aileron and pitch servos (the two front ones) lag behind the elevator one. I doesn't seem to be happening for aileron input.

Re, subtrim: if I'm not mistaken subtrim shifts the whole servo operation range and shouldn't effect servo travel unless it's way overdone. The servo arms and the potentiometer can turn a lot more beyond the 45 degrees off center exactly to accommodate subtrim.

I have quite a bit of subtrim on my 1#A cyclics and the swash travels perfect throughout the whole range without any interactions even at full cyclic.

In fact I suspect I'm not doing something right in the RX setup.
When you set elevator travel range do you only hold up elevator WHILE pressing the SET button? What about down elevator? Same question for aileron travel setting? Does the RX assume that it supposed to set the same travel for down elevator as for up elevator? I'm a bit confused on this one.
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Old Jan 17, 2011, 02:50 AM
mSR,120SR,4G6S,UFLYS,1#A, v450d
Geneva, Switzerland
Joined Oct 2010
134 Posts
OK, just to provide some more info this is what I did so far. I just started the setup this weekend.

First I had to balance the main blades cuz the heli almost shook itself apart from the vibes on the first hover! With that done I also had to adjust main gear mesh as it was too loose. It now turns a lot smoother but the tail belt is still too tight. I'm not sure how best to adjust that, anybody knows?

I did some changes to the radio program that were a bit different from the WOW manual. I thought the suggested 70% swashmix would be way too quick for starters so I lowered it to 40%.
In setting up the pitch curves I went with 42-46-50-75-100 for Normal mode and 0-25-50-75-100 for ST-1.

I went through the full mechanical setup. Adjusted servo arms to be 90 degrees at center collective and cyclic. Had to use some subtrim there. Then adjusted swash links to level swash as best as I could eye-ball it. I don't have a tool for it yet, nor did I want to completely disassemble the head.

Finally I adjusted the blade links to get 0 degrees blade pitch at center collective. I did this in ST-1. I used the included screw-on adapter on top of the head and stuck two of the plastic screw drives that are included with the radios in both side to give me some sort of a flybar-like reference. It worked OK but there must be a better way to do this. What do you guys stick in there?

After all this I did the RX setup and she now hovers very smoothly but I get a lot of swash interaction at both ends of collective travel which will be a problem in 3D flight. I'm still working on sorting this out so if you have any tips, let me know.
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Old Jan 17, 2011, 07:26 AM
Days w/o Incident : Zero
desertflyer1's Avatar
Tucson, AZ
Joined Sep 2009
362 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by habaratschi View Post
I'm actually also having troubles with my motor. My V450d01 was hovering (all I did) quite okay for about 60 minutes total flight time when all of a sudden two days ago the motor did somehow sound strangely and I had to land immediately (few inches above ground). It could not have been heat, since the motor went out within one minute after I started flying.



Actually my motor shaft did (as far as I know) not bend but break! And I didn't like to see it . I do not know why this happened, because I never even slightly crashed it. Could it possibly be that the motor was put too close to the main gear? I mean I did check all I could, but I assumed the heli was put together correctly. Any advice?


This may sound stupid, bc you know what you are doing, but w 'tight' gears or motor problems, did you check the belt? I have had that strange sound on my 1#As before mods to the gear pulley. However, I could smell burning rubber.
Just a thought, and yes, as far as I know, there is a sweet spot for gear/pinions but I have not yet had to adjust on a brand new 1#A or the 450.
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