HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Apr 21, 2012, 11:57 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
5,883 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
Tail blades are 59.6mm KBDD, the yellow stands out against the red canopy so i thought it made a good match as the stock black blades become invisible in flight.

The v450 new may not have slop in the slider but over time as the parts wear it could be a problem. Ive had a number of flights on this heli and noticed this was an issue, but it cant hurt to be proactive. Truth is this is a type of heli that is going to need some fine tunning if you want a really smooth flyer. When I got this one the tail pulley had a wobble and it was eating the belt away. I broke one of the swash balls checking for loctite, they are really soft. I also had issues with the stock servos being sloppy and burning out, also the stock ESC & the stock motor although plenty powerful, get really hot and the motor becomes noisy after awhile. Keep them lubed up like a hot calander model.

So it would seem since I had the extra electronics laying around from a Trex 450-Pro build, I made the V450 a pet project. IMO this is the way the heli should have been sold, but then again it probably would have cost over 500.00+ as opposed to the 389.00 BnF. I figure since the devo came out now and Walkera abandoned the 2801-pro.....Im stuck with the 2801-Pro, the 2702V and this heli.......so i might as well make the best of it.

And I have to say after running some test flights on it it really does fly nice now, about 3100RPM in gov mode and pulling 25-30A, batteries come down warm, motor is normal temp, flight time is good and the thing just sounds so smooth and balanced in the air.

Its done now........back to the micros and the magnifying glass. I have 2 of those to rebuild next
What kind of lube do you recommend for these motors, i don't really lube my micro motors, I'll just upgrade them when they go bad. My 4f200 might warrent some lube maybe. I assume you mean the motor bearings because these are brush less out runners..
ALL of the issues you mentioned exist on the 4f200, which is probably even more complex to setup than the v450 because of the 3 blade head and tail rotors. I got mine from wow hobbies and thankfully they loc-tite the swash and tail already, and if they did not loc-tite the swash i have not removed the balls and will not because of the stripping i hear people talk about. They are in good, i just check them for getting loose after every flight, so far they have not budged. Unfortunately wowhobbies also had the tail belt too tight and the pitch range set too far into the negative, so the heli hardly had any lift. At first i thought the motor just sucked even. I didn't have time to to examine or do adjustments to the pitch because the tail belt broke on me on flight 4. Lucky for me i had some training gear on and it still landed on its feet, but not before mangling the tail boom and rotor. Now that i have meticulously rebuilt and loc-tite the tail and properly adjusted the pitch range this helicopter is my favorite in my fleet. I just won't try to invert or do 3d with it because i never want to deal with the blade phasing and adjusting pitch and all that from scratch if i wreck it.

As for my v450 i got the best deal i could imagine getting, i don't know the actual condition of the heli, but it looks good and the 2 batteries are supposed to be new ones. It has the turbo ace 804 supremo motor in it, supposed to have more power than the align motor. /shrug plus i get a new spare 2801 and a bunch of parts: http://www.ebay.com/itm/150794411817

I still want a fiberglass canopy, i just don't know what will fit besides EXI canopies. But i don't like the EXI ones.
IntegrityHndywrk is offline Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Last edited by IntegrityHndywrk; Apr 22, 2012 at 12:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Apr 22, 2012, 10:06 AM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
HeliFlyer711's Avatar
United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
2,219 Posts
Tri-Flow is all i use,im sure you will get various opinions on that but 3+ years useing it and no problems on ~40 helis, the motor bearings, main shaft bearing blocks, tail pulley bearing blocks, tail belt, swashplate...basically anything metal to metal that moves gets a small drop. The bearings that dont move at high speed seem to hold the oil but anything spinning at 3,000++ RPM is going to sheer the oil off so id say about every 10 flights hit those bearings. Doing this Ive never had a bearing fail in flight and very rare i have to replace them on a heli. It does make a mes though so every so often I tear down the heli and clean out the old oil and replace it with clean oil......just like a car.

Even ones that came to me notchy, when oiled after awhile seemed to work themselves out and smoothen up.
HeliFlyer711 is offline Find More Posts by HeliFlyer711
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 22, 2012, 11:13 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
5,883 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
Tri-Flow is all i use,im sure you will get various opinions on that but 3+ years useing it and no problems on ~40 helis, the motor bearings, main shaft bearing blocks, tail pulley bearing blocks, tail belt, swashplate...basically anything metal to metal that moves gets a small drop. The bearings that dont move at high speed seem to hold the oil but anything spinning at 3,000++ RPM is going to sheer the oil off so id say about every 10 flights hit those bearings. Doing this Ive never had a bearing fail in flight and very rare i have to replace them on a heli. It does make a mes though so every so often I tear down the heli and clean out the old oil and replace it with clean oil......just like a car.

Even ones that came to me notchy, when oiled after awhile seemed to work themselves out and smoothen up.

Its great that stuff works for you, but, I'm sorry. Tri-flow is just a name brand produced by Krylon company. I don't deal with commercial hype. I want to know what is tri-flow made out of. I have about 50 different kind of lubes for tool and die work in my work shop. You see I have no actual school credits myself in engineering. But my grandfather was a tool and die worker for Curtiss-Wright corporation for like 50 years. He thought me a lot. All in all, my point is, if i have learned anything from my grandfather, its that every application requires the right lube. I don't plan on paying $10 for a little tiny bottle of Tri-flow when i more than likely have a gallon of something like it in my shop, or can buy a gallon of it for $5 instead. I did a quick google search trying to find out and apparently Krylon produces different kinds of "Tri-flow". Which kind are you using? here is a MSDS web site:
http://www.varian.com/media/oncology...Industrial.pdf

Now RC helicopters are a little different then full size aircraft and cars. But i think the same principals exist. Only problem is our little helicopters also have plastic parts and a lot of lubricants will rot or soften plastic. Silicone does not.

In general i have always used some kind of "dry lube" on bearings. It is a teflon based lube that dries as powder on the surface. The downside is that it can be rubbed away and should be checked and reapplied regularly. However it will not create gunk from picking up dirt particles like tri-flow or other wet lubes. I don't know if these are ok to use around electronic components like a motor or not. I'm going to bet that the tri-flow you use is at least %60 silicone grease with some Teflon or other form of high heat lube mixed in. But out of all the different kinds of "Tri-flow" types of lubes i have found available, I still don't know what your using. Does it say any ingredients on it or in the warning label?
IntegrityHndywrk is offline Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Last edited by IntegrityHndywrk; Apr 22, 2012 at 12:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 23, 2012, 08:19 AM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
HeliFlyer711's Avatar
United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
2,219 Posts
I bought a bottle from a bike store for 5.00 years ago, put it into 2 smaller needle tip bottles and still have some left so it goes a long way (or should)...... it is the superior lube type, but most people just call it tri-flow. Also have a tube of the synthetic grease that i use to repack OWB and thrust bearings. The grease is a little sticky and lower viscosity so it doesnt sheer off as much on those parts.

The thing with tri-flow is teflon, supposedly the carrier is the light silicone grease that has high viscosity, once that wears off the teflon stays on the moving parts.

http://www.amazon.com/Flow-Teflon-Bi...289874-9023905

http://www.amazon.com/Triflow-Synthe...ef=pd_sim_sg_3

Let us know when the heli shows up.
HeliFlyer711 is offline Find More Posts by HeliFlyer711
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 23, 2012, 08:56 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
5,883 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
I bought a bottle from a bike store for 5.00 years ago, put it into 2 smaller needle tip bottles and still have some left so it goes a long way (or should)...... it is the superior lube type, but most people just call it tri-flow. Also have a tube of the synthetic grease that i use to repack OWB and thrust bearings. The grease is a little sticky and lower viscosity so it doesnt sheer off as much on those parts.

The thing with tri-flow is teflon, supposedly the carrier is the light silicone grease that has high viscosity, once that wears off the teflon stays on the moving parts.

http://www.amazon.com/Flow-Teflon-Bi...289874-9023905

http://www.amazon.com/Triflow-Synthe...ef=pd_sim_sg_3

Let us know when the heli shows up.
Awsome! thank you so much! I do have a bike shop right down the road but Tri-flow sounds just like what i used to use on things like skateboard bearings so they don't gum up. I have a literal gallon of this stuff called "Finnish line - Dry teflon lube" its probably very similar and if I'm not mistaken they use it on bicycles too. It starts off as a milky white liquid but then dries completely as a powder and lubes very well in dry condition areas like bearings and bike chains.
IntegrityHndywrk is offline Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 23, 2012, 06:23 PM
They call me plan B
Heli Biggie's Avatar
United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
1,982 Posts
So with my new 600 , the manual says to relube my thrust bearing every 20 flights . I have never done this on any of my helis,120 thru 600. Is there anything special i should know?


Edit: it doesnt say relube , it says check? What does all this mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
I bought a bottle from a bike store for 5.00 years ago, put it into 2 smaller needle tip bottles and still have some left so it goes a long way (or should)...... it is the superior lube type, but most people just call it tri-flow. Also have a tube of the synthetic grease that i use to repack OWB and thrust bearings. The grease is a little sticky and lower viscosity so it doesnt sheer off as much on those parts.

The thing with tri-flow is teflon, supposedly the carrier is the light silicone grease that has high viscosity, once that wears off the teflon stays on the moving parts.

http://www.amazon.com/Flow-Teflon-Bi...289874-9023905

http://www.amazon.com/Triflow-Synthe...ef=pd_sim_sg_3

Let us know when the heli shows up.
Heli Biggie is offline Find More Posts by Heli Biggie
Last edited by Heli Biggie; Apr 23, 2012 at 06:54 PM. Reason: Wrong info
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 23, 2012, 07:17 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
HeliFlyer711's Avatar
United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
2,219 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
So with my new 600 , the manual says to relube my thrust bearing every 20 flights . I have never done this on any of my helis,120 thru 600. Is there anything special i should know?


Edit: it doesnt say relube , it says check? What does all this mean?
Its a good idea to check them on all helis that have them, as some manuals dont mention it (ie Walkera ) some say every 10 flights, some every 20. They make it general because if your just puttering around hovering then you could put 100 and more flights on the heli and never have an issue. But if your flying hard 3D and making the blades scream (aka blade farts) then the dampeners will wear faster and you should tear down the grips check/replace the dampeners and check/replace/relube the thrust bearings periodically. The Trex 600 size being a bigger heli, the harder it is on the damps, most people start to notice the dampeners start to wear at the 50-100 flight interval on those birds with the stock dampeners. And especially after a crash.

They want you to check it because if the bearing runs dry it will score the guides and start to get notchy or could eventually fail, worst case scenario a blade lockup. But thats extreme conditions. The manual should have a parts breakdown for the head, if you take it apart just notice the order of things and use the manual for reference. Lube and loctite everything back up and it should be fine. I dont think you have to take care of it for awhile though yet the heli is still new.

@ Integrity......when you get the V450 and if you take the head apart it would be good to know if this head takes a V2 dampener as mine should probably be replaced soon on the V
HeliFlyer711 is offline Find More Posts by HeliFlyer711
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 23, 2012, 07:17 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
5,883 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
So with my new 600 , the manual says to relube my thrust bearing every 20 flights . I have never done this on any of my helis,120 thru 600. Is there anything special i should know?


Edit: it doesnt say relube , it says check? What does all this mean?
They expect you to check your bearings to make sure they are moving smoothly with lube in them. Bigger helicopter's thrust bearings can collect gunk or bind up over time. This can cause binding, and lack of lube will cause wear creating slop.

I am only making assumptions because i have not had to check mine on my smaller helicopters yet either. It is probably not needed as much on smaller helicopters because they usually have sealed bearings that don't require maintenance. When they go bad you just replace them. Thrust bearings are layered bearings and are opened. If you disassemble the unit you will be able to take them apart in sections. Be careful though. Some of them are rotational and can only be installed one way or they will not function properly and might bind up or wear out on you. The manual is expecting you to open them up, lube them, and reinstall them every 20 flights. Or at the least assure they are functioning properly and lubed so they are smooth flowing.
IntegrityHndywrk is offline Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Last edited by IntegrityHndywrk; Apr 23, 2012 at 07:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 23, 2012, 07:41 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
5,883 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
@ Integrity......when you get the V450 and if you take the head apart it would be good to know if this head takes a V2 dampener as mine should probably be replaced soon on the V
I was going to just order some of those trublood green dampeners but i wrecked my 4f200 head on into a tree today after another "brownout" due to a crap 2A BEC and two slipping servos that were functioning just fine last night.

Anyway, i have to hold off on buying stuff. I've reached the point where i'm going "Maybe i'll skip the cell phone bill. AGAIN, this month" lol.

I really want my 4f200 fixed but it will have to wait a bit too. I really hope the 450 was hardly ever flown and this guy was just scared of it or something. Because right now my little 120 size birds are ok but they are just not that fun to fly anymore. To really open even them up and have fun i need to be in a decent size field anyway so they bore me when i could be wasting my time charging bigger batteries and wasting money fixing bigger helicopters that i can still see 250 feet away.
IntegrityHndywrk is offline Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 24, 2012, 11:55 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
5,883 Posts
Soooo, my 450 is marked for delivery. should have it soon and have to charge up and give it a once over. But do you think i should attempt my first flight in these conditions: http://www.checkthesock.com/rc_airfi...-aero-modelers

Its been like this for months and this is kind of why i wanted a 450.


EDIT:

ITS HERE! A quick look over and things appear in order. there appears to be loc tite on some of the screws and what not. I have not checked them yet though. I'm not sure if the ESC is stock or not, but new connectors have been soldered onto the ESC and batteries so thats good i guess. Overall for $470 shipped, this is freaking awesome! The blades don't even have scuffs on them and the only real damage i could find are some scratches on the front of the landing skids. The tail slider arm appears to maybe have some damage from a previous crash or repairs. The plastic looks a little warped to me. I will have to see how everything behaves. Todays wind is gusting up to 32mph though so maybe another time. I might strap it to a cinder block and give it a test spool up though. Something odd i noticed is that the TX reverse is set for channel 1, 4 and 6. The setup guide from wow hobbies says 2 and 4 should be. I'll have to go though when the batteries are charged and check things out. I'll check back later.


Update:

Well it passed the strap down test so after every thing was charged i took it out to the field. The first pack it flew nice. I just kept it in a tail in hover with some side in passes and slow turns. It flew beautifully. Very smooth and lots and lots of power. After the first pack i checked the motor and it was cool to the touch like it had not even been running. So i waited a minute and strapped in one of the turnigy 2.2 packs. Got my battery alarm installed and put the canopy back on. I suppose i didn't wait long enough because shortly after lift off on the second pack i began to loose lift. I set the helicopter down and unplugged the battery. Rebound the heli and tried again. This time i didn't even get to lift off. The ESC was just smoking. Lovely.
IntegrityHndywrk is offline Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Last edited by IntegrityHndywrk; Apr 24, 2012 at 07:16 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 24, 2012, 07:26 PM
They call me plan B
Heli Biggie's Avatar
United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
1,982 Posts
Looks like u got a good deal.
Its been very windy here also , so i hope for the weekend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Soooo, my 450 is marked for delivery. should have it soon and have to charge up and give it a once over. But do you think i should attempt my first flight in these conditions: http://www.checkthesock.com/rc_airfi...-aero-modelers

Its been like this for months and this is kind of why i wanted a 450.


EDIT:

ITS HERE! A quick look over and things appear in order. there appears to be loc tite on some of the screws and what not. I have not checked them yet though. I'm not sure if the ESC is stock or not, but new connectors have been soldered onto the ESC and batteries so thats good i guess. Overall for $470 shipped, this is freaking awesome! The blades don't even have scuffs on them and the only real damage i could find are some scratches on the front of the landing skids. The tail slider arm appears to maybe have some damage from a previous crash or repairs. The plastic looks a little warped to me. I will have to see how everything behaves. Todays wind is gusting up to 32mph though so maybe another time. I might strap it to a cinder block and give it a test spool up though. Something odd i noticed is that the TX reverse is set for channel 1, 4 and 6. The setup guide from wow hobbies says 2 and 4 should be. I'll have to go though when the batteries are charged and check things out. I'll check back later.


Update:

Well it passed the strap down test so after every thing was charged i took it out to the field. The first pack it flew nice. I just kept it in a tail in hover with some side in passes and slow turns. It flew beautifully. Very smooth and lots and lots of power. After the first pack i checked the motor and it was cool to the touch like it had not even been running. So i waited a minute and strapped in one of the turnigy 2.2 packs. Got my battery alarm installed and put the canopy back on. I suppose i didn't wait long enough because shortly after lift off on the second pack i began to loose lift. I set the helicopter down and unplugged the battery. Rebound the heli and tried again. This time i didn't even get to lift off. The ESC was just smoking. Lovely.
Heli Biggie is offline Find More Posts by Heli Biggie
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 24, 2012, 08:22 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
5,883 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
Looks like u got a good deal.
Its been very windy here also , so i hope for the weekend.
Yeah I suppose I did. I just don't know if the ESC catching electrical fire and burning out the capacitors is my fault for being so excited and not waiting long enough between packs?? Man this turbo ace motor sure runs cool though!!! I think its air cooled with a internal fan. looking at the pictures, the ESC looks to be a stock ESC with the sticker removed. But I have no idea. I ordered a new stock one from helidirect for way too much money probably. But it will get here before the weekend . I will eventually order a AeolianMotor 45A ESC as recommended earlier in this thread. It looks like a drop in upgrade. I don't want to get into programming the ESC yet. I have enough to learn with this helicopter's 3 servo setup and swash mixing. Its very different than my 4f200. Speaking of which, since i had to order a ESC i got parts to get my 4f200 back flying again too, after its run in with an oak tree (mentioned earlier). I got everything but the blades. Just can't afford them. I will be attempting to reply the one split carbon fiber blade with MXBON105 and i will fill the rough parts on the edge with baking soda and use the MXBON105 to seal it all up. Probably paint it black with a sharpie or something and see if it will fly. I don't have a blade balancer yet so this might not work out too well. I think when i get the new stock ESC for my 450 I will be installing some kind of cooling fan or plate of some kind. I Imagine that having an aluminum air frame would be great for dispersal of heat from the motor and ESC. Too bad they don't have at least an aluminum ESC plate with cooling fins facing the down draft from the rotor. It seems simple enough to accomplish and would only weigh a few grams.
IntegrityHndywrk is offline Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 24, 2012, 10:50 PM
hoten-x,master-cp,v120d02s,etc
Tampa,FL
Joined Dec 2003
975 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Yeah I suppose I did. I just don't know if the ESC catching electrical fire and burning out the capacitors is my fault for being so excited and not waiting long enough between packs?? Man this turbo ace motor sure runs cool though!!! I think its air cooled with a internal fan. looking at the pictures, the ESC looks to be a stock ESC with the sticker removed. But I have no idea. I ordered a new stock one from helidirect for way too much money probably. But it will get here before the weekend . I will eventually order a AeolianMotor 45A ESC as recommended earlier in this thread. It looks like a drop in upgrade. I don't want to get into programming the ESC yet. I have enough to learn with this helicopter's 3 servo setup and swash mixing. Its very different than my 4f200. Speaking of which, since i had to order a ESC i got parts to get my 4f200 back flying again too, after its run in with an oak tree (mentioned earlier). I got everything but the blades. Just can't afford them. I will be attempting to reply the one split carbon fiber blade with MXBON105 and i will fill the rough parts on the edge with baking soda and use the MXBON105 to seal it all up. Probably paint it black with a sharpie or something and see if it will fly. I don't have a blade balancer yet so this might not work out too well. I think when i get the new stock ESC for my 450 I will be installing some kind of cooling fan or plate of some kind. I Imagine that having an aluminum air frame would be great for dispersal of heat from the motor and ESC. Too bad they don't have at least an aluminum ESC plate with cooling fins facing the down draft from the rotor. It seems simple enough to accomplish and would only weigh a few grams.
I have the same turbo ace motor in mine with the stock esc...I fly my three packs back to back all the time with no issues....esc gets hot but it doesn't overheat or anything.

I would replace the esc with one of these...I have a 20amp rctimer esc in my 4f180 and it has been great.
candy76man is online now Find More Posts by candy76man
Last edited by candy76man; Apr 24, 2012 at 10:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 25, 2012, 01:24 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
5,883 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by candy76man View Post
I have the same turbo ace motor in mine with the stock esc...I fly my three packs back to back all the time with no issues....esc gets hot but it doesn't overheat or anything.

I would replace the esc with one of these...I have a 20amp rctimer esc in my 4f180 and it has been great.
Oh hell yeah, nice and cheap. That is what i plan on using on my 4f200, or i think thats what people over in the 4f200 thread were recommending. These helicopters really need a 3+ amp battery eliminator circuit i think. My 4f200 has brownouts all the time because of the servos slipping or when extra load is put on them. the AeolianMotor 45A ESC is only about 10 more, it might be worth it, might work just the same. who knows.
IntegrityHndywrk is offline Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 25, 2012, 03:17 AM
Registered User
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
2,330 Posts
You might want to check when you change the ESC that it doesn't immediately start to overheat - that would indicate one or more of your servos were toast. You can find which one by unplugging them all and then re-adding one by one until the amps go way up.
Normally though in that case you can't bind because the RX can't get enough juice.
thwaitm is offline Find More Posts by thwaitm
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wanted Walkera 400d or Walkera Brushless Cb100 or Heli max 6 channel heli blueindian Aircraft - Electric - Helis (FS/W) 0 Jul 07, 2010 08:03 PM
Discussion Walkera 4#6 or Walkera 4#6s? red_storm Micro Helis 8 Jul 07, 2010 12:17 AM
Discussion Upgrade my Walkera 4#3B or just get a Walkera 4#6? tumble2k Micro Helis 7 Mar 26, 2010 07:30 PM
For Sale Walkera 68 & Walkera 36 Parts bretware Aircraft - Electric - Helis (FS/W) 0 Aug 29, 2009 05:23 PM
Wanted Walkera Lama2 or Walkera 5G6-1 night_life Aircraft - Electric - Helis (FS/W) 2 Aug 27, 2009 04:20 AM