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Old Apr 12, 2012, 07:55 AM
"Watch this!.... Oh crap"
jhebbel's Avatar
United States, FL, Seminole
Joined Jan 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
I'm not going to claim that it will solve your problem but why not try dropping the top three values so the max is 80 in NORM and middle is ~60. Then run the same or similar pit curve in ST1 but run it 76, 76, 80, 88, 100? (I assume you're not running a governor.). Take care when switching NORM/ST1/NORM that there's no major hop up or down with the change in head speed but you should be OK I guess.

My idea is that trying to keep the headspeed nearly constant and using the blade pitch is the way all CP helis are designed to operate and it also means that the tail is driving at it's designed RPM so the pitch changes are enough to keep the heading.

Another thing is, have you done a rate mode hover to set the tail up?
And do you move the heli between connecting the battery and taking off? Try binding and then flying without moving it.
Im going to try a less aggressive thro curve and see what that tells me, but i do believe the ESC that i am using has a governor, im using a Align 35A because the POS walkera one burnt up on first flight. I always fly in NORM as im just a sport flyier, and ive never done a rate mode hover nor do i know what that is, and when you say set the tail up do you mean the gyro? unless im blind ive never seen any throttle/rudder mixing options in my TX, what else would need be set up?
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 08:12 AM
"Watch this!.... Oh crap"
jhebbel's Avatar
United States, FL, Seminole
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let me ask this; GYRHLD -> THROHOLD, does this have anything to do with it? right now im set to INH...
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 09:26 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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Which TX are you using? WK2801Pro?

Anyway, GYRHLD -> THROHOLD doesn't have any effect. That's just the switch on the top left corner to cut the throttle in a crash or when you lose the tail and have to autorotate.

Do you have a soft or super soft start on that ESC? You might want to enable it if it does.

The rate mode hover is where you set the GYRO to less than 50% (usually around 20~25%) and then get the heli into a stable hover in the flight mode you normally use (you might need lots of rudder to stop it pirouetting on the spot though so take care). Once you have that rudder position, you move the servo/adjust the rudder servo rod so that the tail blade pitch is the same as when you were inputting the corrective rudder with your stick now at zero. This means that with no rudder stick input, the tail is providing the correct amount of anti torque.

You then run the rudder setup as per the manual (or my PDF which describes it as well) and then the tail should be set to provide the greatest range of control available. [I haven't described the rate mode setting in the manual since I didn't actually know about it myself when I wrote that - I just clarified what was already written.]

You then switch back to Heading Hold mode (HH) and the servo arm is at 90deg to the boom while it's holding the tail steady in a hover giving the servo a slightly faster response but also sitting in the middle of it's travel.
This setup ideally should be done every time you change something in the head - blades, throttle curve, pitcurve, etc - not everyone does and to sport fly it may not be needed unless you're having tail issues.

If your ESC does have a governor, I wonder if trying to wind up to it's set speed that is making it spin?
Can you get it on video at all?
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Last edited by thwaitm; Apr 12, 2012 at 09:32 AM.
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 09:53 AM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
HeliFlyer711's Avatar
United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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Nice guide!.......saved to desktop
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 10:45 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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Thanks - I've referred back to it myself a couple of times and if it helps anyone else with a V450D01 or even using a RX2702V(-D) to get their heli set up straight then I'm happy to have been able to give something back.
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
Thanks - I've referred back to it myself a couple of times and if it helps anyone else with a V450D01 or even using a RX2702V(-D) to get their heli set up straight then I'm happy to have been able to give something back.
I downloaded your PDF. Are they correction sheets for the Walkera manual?
I don't have the manual handy, so I can't compare it.
Thanks
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 05:12 PM
They call me plan B
Heli Biggie's Avatar
United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
2,103 Posts
walkera v450d01 3d too windy.MP4 (5 min 43 sec)


Its was windy here but i had to fly. Please enjoy
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 06:51 PM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clearprop88 View Post
I downloaded your PDF. Are they correction sheets for the Walkera manual?
I don't have the manual handy, so I can't compare it.
Thanks
Basically I re-wrote section 10 Swashplate and Rudder setup because the original has a few errors omissions and isn't easy to follow, e.g. for mode 2 users you need to swap AILE and PIT servos, LED colours/flashes.
I figured that the rest of the manual was ok but this part was the most difficult and confusing for people recovering after a first crash or just setting up for the first time.

Also the tail setup wasn't clear. If you want your tail servo to last more than a handful of flights it's **VERY** important to set it up properly. Mine was binding horribly OOTB but to compensate I had 50% DR on the TX. The problem is, the Gyro doesn't care about the TX limits and drives it to the full extents of what the servo can do and binds it, seriously reducing servo life. Apparently, neither the factory nor vendors set the tail correctly. It's a shame really because the RX2702V has a very simple tail setup in reality.
You just need to remember it's 100% about the mechanics of the tail and 0% about the TX settings.

The first time I followed the manual I gave full L rudder stick on the TX, rudder servo flicked to MAX left but then I could hear the grinding of a bound servo. The trick is that you want to move the tail pitch assembly slowly until the servo binds and then back off a hair. There should be no noise at all from the servo at max L or max R rudder after it's well setup.
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 07:32 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
HeliFlyer711's Avatar
United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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There you go again, saving people $$ and you may or may not get any love in return for it.... LOL
Yeah I know the feeling

After reading a couple, few threads on everything else Flybarless 3 Axis controller out there today, from the B-X to the V-Bar's to the Flymentors, Copter-X, Skookum, Tarot and etc..(there are quite a few) The 2702V is by far the easiest 3-Axis gyro to set up these days. It wasnt that way upon release though 1.5 years ago, but that was more dealer hype than reality. It is actually a 2 min job to set up the 2702V using a small pointed object and 4 simple movements of the TX sticks. Once you do it a few times and as far as a price to effort to performance ratio, not bad for what it is.

If the pilot wants more control (a closet control freak maybe ?) over the heli FBL setup then one of the other systems will do...... that and a pot of coffee, a pack of smokes, a usb connection with a laptop and youtube tutorial videos and, the printed manual.......dame dude, ill have 20 flights in by then on my V

Thats not to say I havent been eyeing up a beast-x for my next adventure, but so far the 2702v is ok by me. I may just get one more season out of it

L8ter
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 08:04 PM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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Yep, helis are complicated enough without making it worse for yourself by getting all computerised unless you have a specific need and know how to achieve it. Everything I've read says that for ~$100 this RX is pretty good. It's like I had a CBR6 once but I could only really use about 20% of its abilities... went really really fast though!!
Fastest trip London to Carlisle I ever had. The bends over Shap get kinda tight at mph!
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 10:48 PM
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[QUOTE=thwaitm;21313494]Basically I re-wrote section 10 Swashplate and Rudder setup because the original has a few errors omissions and isn't easy to follow, e.g. for mode 2 users you need to swap AILE and PIT servos, LED colours/flashes.
I figured that the rest of the manual was ok but this part was the most difficult and confusing for people recovering after a first crash or just setting up for the first time.

Thanks for the explanation of the PDF.
I already have my 2702 setup, and it's flying well, but I'll take another look at the tail setup.
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 12:07 PM
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Does anyone know what the pitch is on the main gear.
I tried running a TRex 450 pinion against it, and it sort of meshes, but I'm not quite sure.
TRex uses .5 mod. Is the V450 the same?
I would like to try another motor in my heli., but I have to know what kind of pinions to order.
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 12:30 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
HeliFlyer711's Avatar
United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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Yes its modulus 5 same as Trex 450 , pinions, main gears, one way bearing, main shaft sleeve and anti rotation gears are all interchangeable with the Trex 450's. Also the spindle (feathering shaft), and even the main shaft of the 450 Pro can be used on the V450 with some ball link work.

The Trex 450 pro manual gives a spec of .1mm for gear backlash from pinion to main gear, i usea piece of thin reciept paper run through the mesh to get it just right.

PS...dont use brass pinions, they wear out too fast, eat up the main gear, are noisy and fill the heli up with gold dust and oil, the Trex stock pinions and Rhinos are good. Not sure what the stock walkera motors pinion shaft OD is, but the ones for the Align BL450M fit.

Im running Align 450 Pro main and AR gears and a BL450M with Align 14T pinion no problems on the V450D01. The nice thing about the Align main and Ar gears is that they have a fan built into them to keep the motor and esc cool........gets you that 5mph airflow ESC manufacturers call for to get the rated power out of the ESC
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 02:52 PM
"Watch this!.... Oh crap"
jhebbel's Avatar
United States, FL, Seminole
Joined Jan 2012
1,156 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
Which TX are you using? WK2801Pro?

Anyway, GYRHLD -> THROHOLD doesn't have any effect. That's just the switch on the top left corner to cut the throttle in a crash or when you lose the tail and have to autorotate.

Do you have a soft or super soft start on that ESC? You might want to enable it if it does.

The rate mode hover is where you set the GYRO to less than 50% (usually around 20~25%) and then get the heli into a stable hover in the flight mode you normally use (you might need lots of rudder to stop it pirouetting on the spot though so take care). Once you have that rudder position, you move the servo/adjust the rudder servo rod so that the tail blade pitch is the same as when you were inputting the corrective rudder with your stick now at zero. This means that with no rudder stick input, the tail is providing the correct amount of anti torque.

You then run the rudder setup as per the manual (or my PDF which describes it as well) and then the tail should be set to provide the greatest range of control available. [I haven't described the rate mode setting in the manual since I didn't actually know about it myself when I wrote that - I just clarified what was already written.]

You then switch back to Heading Hold mode (HH) and the servo arm is at 90deg to the boom while it's holding the tail steady in a hover giving the servo a slightly faster response but also sitting in the middle of it's travel.
This setup ideally should be done every time you change something in the head - blades, throttle curve, pitcurve, etc - not everyone does and to sport fly it may not be needed unless you're having tail issues.

If your ESC does have a governor, I wonder if trying to wind up to it's set speed that is making it spin?
Can you get it on video at all?
Success, thanks, seems like it was the throttle curve, took it out for a quick hover and the effect was greatly reduced, i think a couple more tweaks will have this resolved.
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Old Apr 13, 2012, 07:44 PM
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[QUOTE=HeliFlyer711;21320071]Yes its modulus 5 same as Trex 450 , pinions, main gears, one way bearing, main shaft sleeve and anti rotation gears are all interchangeable with the Trex 450's. Also the spindle (feathering shaft), and even the main shaft of the 450 Pro can be used on the V450 with some ball link work.

Thanks HeliFlyer. That's the news I was hoping to hear.
Lots of sources out there for TRex compatible parts.
Nice to know that we are not stuck with only Walkera parts.
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