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Old Jul 28, 2010, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary Cee View Post
So we have come to a point where people are using the entire flight/speed envelope. They are learning to fly on the wing, not the engine. The control line mentality is also fading away. It isn't all "up and down real fast" around and around.
I'm not quite sure what to make of that. CL stunt is very definitely flying on the wing and not the engine and has been almost since the beginning, particularly after George designed the Nobler 60 years ago (OMG!!!). Stunt engine development has concentrated on the high torque at moderate rev side of things because absolute HP is useless. Both Jett and Nelson make some rather nice CL stunt specific engines (to name two that Americans would be familiar with). What doesn't seem to have filtered down to RC so far is that a CL stunt engine is ideal for 3D flying.

I'm sure that Konrad would agree that what makes an engine "high class" is how well it does the job it was designed to do, reliably and efficiently, whether it's for competitions or day to day flying.
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Old Jul 28, 2010, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by downunder View Post
I'm not quite sure what to make of that. CL stunt is very definitely flying on the wing and not the engine and has been almost since the beginning, particularly after George designed the Nobler 60 years ago (OMG!!!). Stunt engine development has concentrated on the high torque at moderate rev side of things because absolute HP is useless. Both Jett and Nelson make some rather nice CL stunt specific engines (to name two that Americans would be familiar with). What doesn't seem to have filtered down to RC so far is that a CL stunt engine is ideal for 3D flying.

I'm sure that Konrad would agree that what makes an engine "high class" is how well it does the job it was designed to do, reliably and efficiently, whether it's for competitions or day to day flying.
Oh no!! Not another undefined term. "High Class"! But, Brian you nailed it on the head. Some manufactures make a product that they know are unsuitable for the application and as a result will NOT warranty it, even for manufacturing and material defects!

All the best,
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Old Jul 28, 2010, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by downunder View Post

I'm sure that Konrad would agree that what makes an engine "high class" is how well it does the job it was designed to do, reliably and efficiently, whether it's for competitions or day to day flying.
I did not exclude CL planes from "flying on the wing.Not even close. Nice try but that was a follow up, second sentence . I said the CL mentality was ALSO fading away...My reference to round and round . Not mutually inclusive of the "flying on the wing " sentence that preceeded it.

I was referring to the basic entry level control line style that many got their start with. The RC practice of simply flying around in circles trying to fly faster circles than the next guy. Not a bad thing just that people's flying styles have moved in many other directions to a greater degree.



Most folks myself included agree whole heartedly that we want an engine that is designed to fit our needs and do so that well . Nothing unique there. Exactly why some manufacturers have much a broader appeal . If they did not perform as intended they would not survive. Even if they do supremely well they may not survive if their targeted market is limited . Right on.

Jett and Nelson indeed make some very fine engines. Not a broad range of engines but they have a niche.
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Old Jul 28, 2010, 01:24 PM
Heathkit DX-100 son of Bullet
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No, it's not your friends' plane. I built this one in 1989 over a period of about three months. The O.S. engine on this airframe is just marvelous. It will climb at a 30 degree angle even with the floats. Once off the water, you can throttle back to about 3500rpms (obviously, just a guess) and it sounds like the real thing.
At idle in a gentle dive, all you can hear is wind whistling through the struts and a quiet burbling from the open exhausts.
Thanks for the fill in. The Cubs are always nice to see flying . When complimented with that lovely OS Pegasus they even sound wonderful . Watching and hearing that plane skimming onto a glassy smooth lake late in the afternoon is hard to beat.
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Old Jul 28, 2010, 01:37 PM
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Old Jul 28, 2010, 01:38 PM
It's Prime Time for Slime Time
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...The O.S. engine on this airframe is just marvelous. It will climb at a 30 degree angle even with the floats. Once off the water, you can throttle back to about 3500rpms (obviously, just a guess) and it sounds like the real thing.
At idle in a gentle dive, all you can hear is wind whistling through the struts and a quiet burbling from the open exhausts.
That is cool! What scale is it? Is it the FF240 or the FF320? I like the yellow floats.
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Old Jul 28, 2010, 01:50 PM
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My Fox stunt 35 was too powerful for my airplane. I couldn't keep up with it. So I took the Hemi head off and put an old stock head on. Now the engine runs to suit me. So there!
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Old Jul 28, 2010, 01:59 PM
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Maybe this seems a tad presumptuous, but I made a comparison earlier in another thread that no one has commented on yet, and which I thought was rather apt to the general discussion around here.

"This just in: Modern airliners are horrible designs. All of them. NONE of them have the ceramic heat tiles on the bottom of the fuselage and wings. How are Delta Airlines' fleet of 737s ever going to enter the earth's atmosphere at orbit speed without those tiles? Must be those nagging bean counters at Boeing. Always trying to make a buck and rip off the customer. Lives are at stake here guys! It's that important! "

I still want to see a Boeing 737 doing a re-entry after leaving Earth's atmosphere. That is something to really see. Any examples of it happening?
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Old Jul 28, 2010, 02:06 PM
It's Prime Time for Slime Time
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Is the fact that you would destroy a stock Ford 2.3L 4 cyl engine if you shoved it full of nitrous and put a gigantic turbo on it, and revved it up to 10,000 RPM repeatedly at the drag strip proof that the engine is worthless? Of course not. Just like a B737 doesn't need ceramic heat tiles to fly reliably and safely from destination to destination because it never even breaks Mach 1, the little Ford puts millions of miles on it, safely, reliably, and efficiently in its intended use/role of a commuter automobile engine. Ford happens to sell a lot of these engines too, just like Boeing purveys its 737 more than any other commercial airliner. Must be the ad copy, because unless the Ford has forged internals and 8 bolt mains, and the Boeing has the aforementioned heat tiles, they are 'adequate as ditch diggers at best.'
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Old Jul 28, 2010, 02:08 PM
It's Prime Time for Slime Time
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I still want to see a Boeing 737 doing a re-entry after leaving Earth's atmosphere. That is something to really see. Any examples of it happening?
hehe it'd need rockets to get out first. And a much stronger fuselage structure if you wanted to keep the air inside. Oh, AND a way to get up to orbit speed in the first place. (unless you used the aforementioned rockets.) It's a good thing we mere mortals content ourselves with ditch-digging stratospheric travel.
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Old Jul 28, 2010, 03:25 PM
Heathkit DX-100 son of Bullet
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Gee, I am currently restoring a KC135a Boeing flight simulator for a museum up in Michigan.This is basically a complete nose section including all the instrumentation and cockpit/engineers controls. The cockpit flooring was merely plywood. What with all the taxpayer dollars they gobble up they could have given us something "better" . I wonder if they spec'd the ad copy as " Beautiful ,modern flooring made up from rich natural cellulose laminates" ?
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Old Jul 28, 2010, 03:38 PM
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How high would that special NASA 747 go if the space shuttle was to fire it's rocket engines and not disconnect from it?
Granted they have to protect the tail from the rocket exhaust though.
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Old Jul 28, 2010, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Konrad View Post
Oh no!! Not another undefined term. "High Class"! But, Brian you nailed it on the head. Some manufactures make a product that they know are unsuitable for the application and as a result will NOT warranty it, even for manufacturing and material defects!

All the best,
I think that is the norm when it comes to "anything" labeled high performance.

It's there for all to see prior to purchase.......


Limit of Liability: Our liability under this warranty is limited to the repair or replacement of defective parts by Jett and does not include shipping expenses.

Exclusion and/or Voidance of WarrantyThis is a high performance engine and individual operator techniques vary in such a way that the life of this engine is beyond the manufacturer’s control. Specifically, there is no warranty against material wear or breakage resulting from actual use. This warranty is void if the engine is modified, altered, or repaired by anyone other than Jett. Special power enhancements made by Jett at your request void the warranty!!! This warranty gives you specific legal rights and you may have other rights that vary from state to state within the U.S.

Proof of Date of Purchase: It is the responsibility of the purchaser to show proof and date of purchase. Your original invoice or receipt is required. Should your engine require warranty or non-warranty service, please return it via UPS or insured Parcel Post to:
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Old Jul 28, 2010, 04:21 PM
Heathkit DX-100 son of Bullet
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Do you mean to say the Jett warranty expires before the customer even receives the box ?
Even Dubb Jett realizes the abusive nature of many "High Performance" operators. And he sells probably 1/100th or less of what the major maker does.
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Old Jul 28, 2010, 04:51 PM
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Do yoy mean the Jett warranty expires before the customer even receives the box ?
Even Dubb Jett realizes the abusive nature of many "High Performance" operators. And he sells probably 1/100th or less of what the major maker does.
I don't think that's the case but anything labed "High Performance" is normally "you buy, you own it". The Sport Engines that Jett sells have a normal warranty just like anyone else's engines.

Rossi's the same way with ALL thier engines. http://www.novarossi.it/files/manuals/uk-general.pdf

You can buy one of these with a credit card, take it home and cook-it with one lean run. I imagine it would get $$$ having to replace piston and liner sets one after the other...

It's probably even worse for those that disregard the instructions that come with thier engines and "know whats best"...and do what they want with it anyway. Then complain that thier engine isn't covered by a warranty even when they didn't bother to send it back...If your afraid to send it back to the manufacturer, you "fixed it" prior to running it and it broke....voiding the warranty.

I'd be mad at my self too....
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