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Old Jul 22, 2011, 06:35 PM
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United States, CT
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Originally Posted by candy76man View Post
I have some old am/fm tx antennas and the second section from the top is exactly the right size to fit the v200 main shaft and it's wall is at least as thin as the wall on brass tube would be, maybe thinner so I'm gonna use that.
Hey candy76man, i used the top section (solid) of an am/fm radio antenna for an mcpx tail boom, it fit perfect in to the frame, was considering one of the other sections for possible sleeve use as well. (checked a plumbers supply place for the 3/16 brass that dsobbe suggested but they didn't carry it, no hobby supply near me.)
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Old Jul 22, 2011, 06:36 PM
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San Jose, California
Joined Aug 2010
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Originally Posted by Bravo47 View Post
LOL did you find that flow chart in a Government department as it looks like public service policy

I really need to add a 4F180 to my collection so I can tinker, but im surounded by so many heli's already I cant really justify the cost at this point, especially with another autogyro kit in the mail that the mrs doesnt know about
Just think of it this way, no matter what justification you make, you will find yourself making them anyway as long as you own your fleet...

Its just a matter of time before you give in to buying it...the only justification is "I want it"

BTW, what works for me is the following: if you could somehow convince her by getting 3 quotes for a particular merchandise, and demonstrate that you went out of your way to pick the best price...the action alone will save you some impact more or less....

kinda like shopping for them
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Old Jul 22, 2011, 06:48 PM
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Australia
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Originally Posted by candy76man View Post
Does yours have that much movement around the ball? I ask because it seems like having movement there kind of defeats the purpose of the sleeves? Also I just ran through a pack and can't really see any difference...it still bucks around about the same as before...not unflyable by any stretch but not really any improvement.
When you look into the reasons why the heli can buck or pitch up. It can only be one of two things.

1. Swash moving up and down on elevator plane due to free play.

2. Problematic elevator gyro, or settings.

It you do the mod then increase gyro gain until it wobbles, then back it off in small amount until the wobble settles. Personally I also like a neutral CG, slightly forward bias.
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Old Jul 22, 2011, 07:06 PM
I haveno idea what I am doing
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United States, SC, Lexington
Joined Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by tengarang View Post
Just think of it this way, no matter what justification you make, you will find yourself making them anyway as long as you own your fleet...

Its just a matter of time before you give in to buying it...the only justification is "I want it"

BTW, what works for me is the following: if you could somehow convince her by getting 3 quotes for a particular merchandise, and demonstrate that you went out of your way to pick the best price...the action alone will save you some impact more or less....

kinda like shopping for them

I purposely look for the full retail price of an item to show the wife and then let her know what a bargain I am getting by purchasing the item elsewhere at a reduced price.
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Old Jul 22, 2011, 07:14 PM
I haveno idea what I am doing
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United States, SC, Lexington
Joined Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by candy76man View Post
Does yours have that much movement around the ball? I ask because it seems like having movement there kind of defeats the purpose of the sleeves? Also I just ran through a pack and can't really see any difference...it still bucks around about the same as before...not unflyable by any stretch but not really any improvement.

If you cant see any improvement, there is a problem with the way you did the mod or the swash is worn. Before the mod my swash was really sloppy. after the mod, the swash still moves on its axis freely but is rock solid up and down. There is almost no movement up and down. The improvement in the way it flys is huge.
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Old Jul 22, 2011, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Bravo47 View Post
LOL did you find that flow chart in a Government department as it looks like public service policy

I really need to add a 4F180 to my collection so I can tinker, but im surounded by so many heli's already I cant really justify the cost at this point, especially with another autogyro kit in the mail that the mrs doesnt know about
I never thought about it. But, you may be right!

Don't worry. Be positive about it. One more heli isn't going to make any difference at your divorce hearing.
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Old Jul 22, 2011, 08:26 PM
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To all,

If you're having a hard time finding the thin wall brass tubing I used for the swashplate sleeves here's the manufacturers web page:

http://www.ksmetals.com/index.html

Check their dealer list.
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Old Jul 22, 2011, 08:54 PM
WarpQuad, Flip260FPV, etc.
Tampa,FL
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Originally Posted by 2dmatt View Post
If you cant see any improvement, there is a problem with the way you did the mod or the swash is worn. Before the mod my swash was really sloppy. after the mod, the swash still moves on its axis freely but is rock solid up and down. There is almost no movement up and down. The improvement in the way it flys is huge.
Thats why I'm asking how much play others have where the swash and ball connect. The ball can not move up or down on the main shaft anymore with the sleeves but the swash can still move up and down about a 1/2mm due to the play between the swash and the ball. I never took note of how much play it had at the spot when it was new.
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Old Jul 22, 2011, 09:06 PM
I haveno idea what I am doing
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United States, SC, Lexington
Joined Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by candy76man View Post
Thats why I'm asking how much play others have where the swash and ball connect. The ball can not move up or down on the main shaft anymore with the sleeves but the swash can still move up and down about a 1/2mm due to the play between the swash and the ball. I never took note of how much play it had at the spot when it was new.

I just checked mine and it has basically zero play. maybe the swashplate is worn out.
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Old Jul 22, 2011, 09:31 PM
WarpQuad, Flip260FPV, etc.
Tampa,FL
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Originally Posted by 2dmatt View Post
I just checked mine and it has basically zero play. maybe the swashplate is worn out.
thanks, thats what I needed to know, I'll go ahead and order a new one and see what happens.


On another note, I just took two of the blades off my 4f180 and tried flying it and it works but strangely it didn't improve pullout at all. so I'm thinking my problem may be more blade rpm related than the motor lacking power. What do you guys think of me trying a pinion with two more teeth on it for the turbo ace motor? bad idea? may work?

The motor hits about 120 ish f as it is now and I have a rctimer 30 amp esc so I think it could handle a slightly lower gear ratio without getting too hot.
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Old Jul 22, 2011, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by candy76man View Post
it works but strangely it didn't improve pullout at all.
I'm flying both the V200D01 and 4F180 with stock motors. I don't have any problems with "pullout". I assume that means recovering from a dive. If that is correct, then it may be incorrect pilot technique that is the issue. How are you using pitch (elevator) and throttle during a pullout?
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Old Jul 22, 2011, 10:31 PM
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USA, Ohio, Catawba Island
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Originally Posted by candy76man View Post
Thats why I'm asking how much play others have where the swash and ball connect. The ball can not move up or down on the main shaft anymore with the sleeves but the swash can still move up and down about a 1/2mm due to the play between the swash and the ball. I never took note of how much play it had at the spot when it was new.
Yeah, there's a little slop in the swash assembly. not enough to worry, about .5mm
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Old Jul 22, 2011, 10:57 PM
WarpQuad, Flip260FPV, etc.
Tampa,FL
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Originally Posted by dsobbe View Post
I'm flying both the V200D01 and 4F180 with stock motors. I don't have any problems with "pullout". I assume that means recovering from a dive. If that is correct, then it may be incorrect pilot technique that is the issue. How are you using pitch (elevator) and throttle during a pullout?
I've gotten used the turboace upgrade motor on my v200, that motor in the v200 has saved my butt many times because it can lift the heli like a rocket compared to the stock motor, I'm talking easily double the speed going straight up. However The same turbo ace motor in the f4180 is only giving me slightly more pullout power than the stock motor it came with....and my flying style has adjusted to having that power on tap so when I suddenly don't have it, flying the 4f180, I end up with a lot of close calls.

For example, I can head down towards the ground at pretty good speed with my v200 get within a few feet of the ground and shoot right back up again easily. The same maneuver with my 4f180 results in a crash because it simply doesn't have the thrust on tap to overcome the momentum and pull back up.
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Old Jul 22, 2011, 11:04 PM
WarpQuad, Flip260FPV, etc.
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Originally Posted by HeliGriff View Post
Yeah, there's a little slop in the swash assembly. not enough to worry, about .5mm
Well, I ordered a new swash, I'm hoping that play in my swash is enough to make a difference because the sleeve mod hasn't made a difference on mine.
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Old Jul 23, 2011, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by candy76man View Post

The same maneuver with my 4f180 results in a crash because it simply doesn't have the thrust on tap to overcome the momentum and pull back up.
I've noticed a lag in rotor RPM spin up and down on the 4F180 as compared to the V200D01. That's due to its greater mass. Maybe that's what you're experiencing. You have to anticipate adding or reducing power and lead it a little. Once I got used to that the feeling that it wasn't responding to commands, like stopping a descent or dive, disappeared.
Both helicopters appear to have about the same rate of climb using the same motor. So, I don't think anything is wrong with their blade pitch.
Another possibility is mechanical drag. If I close the throttle as soon as my 4F180 lands it takes about 4 seconds for the rotor to slow to a stop. Compare that to yours. If its a lot shorter you may have something causing reduced power.
Hope this helps. I know it's frustrating trying to identify a problem in these glorified egg beaters.
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