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Old Feb 14, 2011, 06:33 AM
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United States, IL, Chicago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch1100 View Post
Great thinking! I wonder if you could make the flaps out of aluminum to help dispate the heat as well? May slice down a piece of hollow aluminum tube?
Stretch1100,

I used the double sided tape as a temporary bond to experiment with the vanes. I decided that they worked well enough that I removed the tape and permanently bonded them to the motor with CA. Besides, the tape is an insulator along with the paper labels on the motor case. Just removing those labels improves cooling.
I recommend that you make the vanes from something flexible for two reasons. First, CA will bond a plastic soda straw to the aluminum motor case. But, it won't bond aluminum to aluminum very well. Secondly, plastic vanes are flexible and will bend if accidently contacted while at rest, or turning. Much safer that way and less likely to cut something, like your fingers, or break off if struck.
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Last edited by dsobbe; Feb 14, 2011 at 06:35 AM. Reason: added material.
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Old Feb 15, 2011, 07:15 AM
flying or crashing into air?
wizzard363's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Langwarrin
Joined Feb 2011
1,327 Posts
Today I was in a stable hover then gave it full throttle and the tail exploded ending in a very high speed mid air spin and a crash
One of the screws that holds the blade holder assembly together sheared. This is the second time I have had this happen and before I fit new parts I will be looking to upgrade the stock screws in the tail blade holder assembley.
I am sure I did not over tighten the screws when I replaced it after the first time as that is what I thought caused the first one to fail (factory fitted)
Damage was :
blade holder assembly (obv)
linkages on the tail steering set , 1 torn off the other bent.(will replace the whole set)
Bent tail shaft
broken tail drive shaft
tail gears and the usual main gear.
Anyone else had this problem ?
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Old Feb 15, 2011, 08:50 AM
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United States, IL, Chicago
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One X Rail,

RE: Your Post #190

Your solution to eliminating small bevel gear slop is elegantly simple. Thanks.
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Old Feb 15, 2011, 09:03 AM
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United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzard363 View Post
Today I was in a stable hover then gave it full throttle and the tail exploded ending in a very high speed mid air spin and a crash
One of the screws that holds the blade holder assembly together sheared. This is the second time I have had this happen and before I fit new parts I will be looking to upgrade the stock screws in the tail blade holder assembley.
I am sure I did not over tighten the screws when I replaced it after the first time as that is what I thought caused the first one to fail (factory fitted)
Damage was :
blade holder assembly (obv)
linkages on the tail steering set , 1 torn off the other bent.(will replace the whole set)
Bent tail shaft
broken tail drive shaft
tail gears and the usual main gear.
Anyone else had this problem ?
I've had these small screws fail on other copters after being strained and/or bent in a previous crash. It's a common occurrence.
Any time I crash a copter I completely disassemble all of the parts in the damaged area and any other parts I suspect may have been damaged. I then inspect both the parts and fasteners under a magnifier. Quite often I find small screws that are bent or cracked.
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Old Feb 15, 2011, 09:39 PM
Fly Straight Fly High
tengarang's Avatar
San Jose, California
Joined Aug 2010
3,581 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzard363 View Post
Today I was in a stable hover then gave it full throttle and the tail exploded ending in a very high speed mid air spin and a crash
One of the screws that holds the blade holder assembly together sheared. This is the second time I have had this happen and before I fit new parts I will be looking to upgrade the stock screws in the tail blade holder assembley.
I am sure I did not over tighten the screws when I replaced it after the first time as that is what I thought caused the first one to fail (factory fitted)
Damage was :
blade holder assembly (obv)
linkages on the tail steering set , 1 torn off the other bent.(will replace the whole set)
Bent tail shaft
broken tail drive shaft
tail gears and the usual main gear.
Anyone else had this problem ?
Sounds like you have had a previous crash before involving the tail strike. If you hear any clicking sound, do not fly as I suspect this was the initial symptom causing your mishap.

Always make sure your gears flow smoothly making a smooth gear sound with no clicking!

I have had clicking once, but it flew mid speed, ok fine give it full throttle, boom spins out of control in air and hits the ground....luckily i landed on the soft grass with no damage but still what if it was pavement!!

tengarang
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Old Feb 16, 2011, 12:02 AM
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Nice review.
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Old Feb 16, 2011, 02:58 AM
flying or crashing into air?
wizzard363's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Langwarrin
Joined Feb 2011
1,327 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tengarang View Post
Sounds like you have had a previous crash before involving the tail strike. If you hear any clicking sound, do not fly as I suspect this was the initial symptom causing your mishap.

Always make sure your gears flow smoothly making a smooth gear sound with no clicking!

I have had clicking once, but it flew mid speed, ok fine give it full throttle, boom spins out of control in air and hits the ground....luckily i landed on the soft grass with no damage but still what if it was pavement!!

tengarang
Thanks for the input
I had just put new gears in so the heli was smooth with no clicks or vibration.
The tail has a guard and I had no tail strikes .The spinning was caused by the loss of a tail blade and not a stripped / slipping gear
I have had a bit of time with this heli now so I know the basic problems it has
but I think the upgrade motor means I need to keep an eye on things as the extra power will show up any weak spots.
The screws that hold the tail blade holders on are only mild steel and cant handle the stress that they are under for long .
I will be replacing them after every 8-10 batteries as part of regular servicing .
If anyone knows where to get stainless steel screws from please let me know as this should fix the problem (I think they are M1x5mm but I have not measured them yet)
thanks
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Last edited by wizzard363; Feb 16, 2011 at 07:11 AM.
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Old Feb 16, 2011, 06:32 AM
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United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzard363 View Post
If anyone knows where to get stainless steel screws from please let me know as this should fix the problem (I think they are M1x5mm but I have not measured them yet)
thanks
wizzard363,

Try http://microfasteners.com. They are a U.S. company that carries small metric fasteners.
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Old Feb 16, 2011, 07:18 AM
flying or crashing into air?
wizzard363's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Langwarrin
Joined Feb 2011
1,327 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsobbe View Post
wizzard363,

Try http://microfasteners.com. They are a U.S. company that carries small metric fasteners.
Thanks .
I am searching and contacting a few suppliers and I will post a link if I find them
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Old Feb 16, 2011, 07:20 AM
msr,CB100,UFlyS,V120-V200D01
Tennessee, USA
Joined Dec 2007
249 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzard363 View Post
Thanks for the input
I had just put new gears in so the heli was smooth with no clicks or vibration.
The tail has a guard and I had no tail strikes .The spinning was caused by the loss of a tail blade and not a stripped / slipping gear
I have had a bit of time with this heli now so I know the basic problems it has
but I think the upgrade motor means I need to keep an eye on things as the extra power will show up any weak spots.
The screws that hold the tail blade holders on are only mild steel and cant handle the stress that they are under for long .
I will be replacing them after every 8-10 batteries as part of regular servicing .
If anyone knows where to get stainless steel screws from please let me know as this should fix the problem (I think they are M1x5mm but I have not measured them yet)
thanks
When you find out the size and where to get the screws please post because I am going to replace mine before this happens to me. Thanks!
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Old Feb 16, 2011, 08:45 AM
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United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Jan 2011
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To all,

Tengarang's challenge to achieve 100 flights without a crash is certainly a worthy goal. It helps develop the disciplines of proper maintenance, planning and safe flight operation needed to successfully reach that goal. Whether or not you choose to attempt it, there is something else you can do that will prove more useful.
The maintenance and operation of full size aircraft of all types is predicated on "time". Some high stress parts are occasionally recorded in cycles, ie, number of landings, etc. But, the primary means of historical recording is in time. That information provides an accurate record of the number of cycles for each battery pack, total and average flight times for that helicopter, mean time before failure for parts, time between routine maintenance, etc. There is a simple and effective way to do this. All it takes is a cheap stop watch and a battery log.

There is no way that you can fly and also accurately keep track of flight times in your head. Mounting a cheap digital wristwatch with a stopwatch function on your transmitter will give you the means to do that (photo). Just remove the watch band and stick it onto your transmitter with a piece of double sided foam tape. It should be located out of the way of primary controls, yet easily reachable.
In operation, start the watch just before bringing the throttle up. After landing, stop the watch after closing the throttle. The hard part is training yourself to do this every time. It takes a some practice.
The radio draws very little power with the motor off. If you land and close the throttle for a minute or so during a flight, pause the watch and restart it just prior to taking off again.
After the flight, record the flight time in the battery log and reset the stopwatch.

In the battery log there should be a line for each battery pack, boxes to record each flights time and space to make notes (photo). I record the time of each flight for each pack in minutes and decimal seconds (6 seconds = .1) and, if needed, any event during that flight that may effect mechanical operation; crash, blade strike, unusual noises, vibration, etc.

Over time this record provides a lot of valuable information. For example, in one particular helicopter I learned that the average cycle life of a LiPo battery pack is roughly 80 cycles. Shortening logged times quickly show if a battery is starting to go bad or a mechanical problem is starting to cause the electrical load to increase. The service life of a bushed motor is about 20 hours, whereas a ball bearing motor lasts about 60 hours, runs cooler and gives longer flight times. Bearings need to be cleaned and oiled every 20 hours. The step washer under the lower main bearing has to be replaced every 50 hours as it wears down. The total flight time for that helicopter is 280 hours. All of that information was gotten from a battery log. Cumulative details, such as routine maintenance and total times were then recorded to a log for that particular helicopter. For example, total flight time was updated periodically from the battery log.

This is all information that you could never accurately recall from memory. And, it all contributes to safer, trouble free flying. Give it a try.
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Old Feb 16, 2011, 08:15 PM
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San Jose, California
Joined Aug 2010
3,581 Posts
Hi Dsobbe,

Thank you for creating this methodology. This "tool" you have created i think will provide some valuable data for us. I will adopt this tool and create a spreadsheet using the suggested parameters created by you and will say make a report point every 25 flights with the ultimate goal of 100.

Now here is something to ponder...the fixed parameters are

1. Remote
2. Helicopter (provided no crashes requiring replacing parts....therefore we have to set the count back to 0)

Variable Parameter is:

1. weather conditions?

2. battery we use...(variations in different manufacturers? Should we be using the same pack, or as long as the age and manufacturer is the same we should be ok?) I think here as far as mechanical parts go battery type, age , duration does not matter, but how about the electrical system? maybe alittle far out but i do want to establish a common ground between a couple of us pilots here to get a routine plan.

Im running stock battery and also sky brand 1300Mah batteries as well. Gives longer flight time and a little more kick to it.

Come to think of it the battery is just the power supply...electrically in terms of guage point of view, i dont think this is a variable parameter but rather a floating variable...

what do you guys think?

Regards

Tengarang
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Last edited by tengarang; Feb 16, 2011 at 10:27 PM.
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 06:58 AM
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United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Jan 2011
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Tengarang,

Re: Your Post #207

With respect, I'm confused by this post. Could you please clarify it.
As a general thought, your initial challenge of achieving 100 flights without a crash is a worthy goal, as I have stated. However, as I pointed out in an earlier post, the objectives for reaching that goal were never defined. Then, you seemed to introduce the conflicting objective of collecting data to document the frailties of the main gear into that goal for the purpose of trying to get Walkera to improve the gears strength. I don't believe that is a practical pursuit for a variety of physical, aerodynamic and marketing reasons. I think that if you simply stick to offering advise on achieving your original goal of 100 flights without a crash you will have given us all a valuable learning tool.
As regards the background of my battery log. Initially, LiPo batteries were new to me. So, I used a battery log as a means to document their cycle, loading and operational performance to enable me to better understand their characteristics. Along the same lines you could just as easily create an airframe log to document structural characteristics such as part wear, service life, service intervals, time before failure/replacement, etc.
A log is just a tool that records historically factual data upon which to maintain a machine in a safe and operable condition. More than most other forms of flight, helicopters are more susceptible to catastrophic failure due to minor mechanical problems. Therefore, the maintenance of a log, or logs, just makes a lot of sense.

Regards,
Dsobbe
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 03:13 PM
rldeveer's Avatar
Big Island of Hawaii
Joined Jan 2011
247 Posts
Noob about to jump to V200D02.
Seems there is no active tread on the D02 and you D01 fliers may be able to help me. Although Walkera seems to get a lot of bad mouth, they still seem to have a large following and seem to be light years ahead with FBL technology at this size. FBL seems to be the way I want to go.

I come from the S107 coax school of learning and am now working with the Heli-X flt trainer. I like the size of the V200 more than the V100 or msr. Evam the SR120 seems a bit smaller than I would like. The WK 2403 seems to be a better way for a noob to work his way up to than changing the buckles on a more complicated head. So it looks like the D02 or D01.

I am on a limited budget for bird, TX and basic spares. It would seem to me that the D01 is less forgiving with tail strikes ect. because of the power of the brushless motor and tail design. I'm thinking the D02 with a set of Harden AX-07 & AX-13 blades. Once the tail motor or tail gears go out I will put the DD tail rebuild for the 180D on. Did the 180D have any other significant problems?

I just think the D01 price and durability is holding me back as I can just fit the D02 package into my budget for now. I would appreciate any opinions. Thanks and Aloha!
Rob
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Old Feb 17, 2011, 10:37 PM
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San Jose, California
Joined Aug 2010
3,581 Posts
Hi Dsobbe,

I felt that I have stepped out of my bounds in my previous post. Honestly I was quite happy with what you came up with and wanted to add a little more color to it, but at the same time its intent was to "fish" for constructive feedback from you which you did provide in turn.

I want to keep it simple and disregard post 207, can continue with what we had before it with your new tool.

Best regards sincerely appreciate you sticking to this despite the confusion I have caused

tengarang
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