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Old Feb 14, 2013, 12:57 PM
Registered User
United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Jan 2011
1,038 Posts
Selling my V200D01 with all of the Dsobbe mods. Flies great.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...00&postcount=1
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 07:32 PM
Registered User
United States, NM, Otero
Joined Feb 2013
16 Posts
Another new guy

Finally got to fly my V200 yesterday for the first time. Very disappointing since the heli just wanted to tip over as soon as I spooled up. Came back home and leveled the swash and tightened up the tail rotter blades and turned down the toggle switches on the TX. Actually got it to hover today for a little bit, but I am, at best, a very conservative(timid, maybe) pilot so I set her down and went back to the battery charger feeling like I had gone from "trouble shooting mode" to "optimization mode" in one day, so pretty happy. Since I am a belt and suspenders kind of guy and don't want to wreck so soon (even though my spare parts arrived today) I have some next steps kind of questions. Direct answers would be great or just pointing me to post numbers in this thread would be fine too. First the tendency for the heli to want to tip over still. It is better now that I have the swash closer to level (I set it slightly to the right to offset the left drift tendency and the fact that it was mostly tipping left) but still it will just tip over after spool up. Do I just need to give is some gas (stop being so timid and take off the suspenders) and get it through it's own prop wash or would turning up the gyros help until I get more comfortable? I have also noticed that the gyros seem to be trying to work, but the servo movement is very slight. I can hear them moving a little but can't hardly see the movement. Is this normal? Finally, all of the POTs seem to be set to the "factory settings" I have seen throughout this thread. Should I set them otherwise and then work my way back to these to make my journey to confident pilot less hairy? Any other advice would be greatly appreciated. You guys are incredible and this tread has been very inspiring to me!
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 10:10 PM
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United States, AZ, Peoria
Joined Aug 2010
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Mine want's to tip to the right just before leaving the ground so I just counter it with a little left movement on the right (aileron) stick initially and all is well once it gets the skids off the ground.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 05:52 AM
Owner1
United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Mar 2011
345 Posts
First to answer your questions:

--Yes, it's normal to hear the servos chattering but see very little movement.
--Yes, it's normal for the heli to want to tip over just as it gets light on its' skids. The key is to only spin the rotors fast enough to get the tail gyro start working, then jump it up into the air quickly. Don't sit close to the ground with the heli barely on the ground.
--No, I would leave the gyros set as they are until you see how it flies.
--Yes, you need to stop being so timid with it. I understand you not wanting to crash it, but being timid and keeping it close to the ground WILL cause you to crash it.

Very importantly, what is your experience level? This isn't a particularly easy heli to fly, and knowing your experience will help us give you advice on what to do. The one thing I can offer right now is be ready to pull back on the elevator as you begin to attempt turns. This heli picks up speed very quickly, and it takes a lot of pulling back on the elevator to keep it going slow. Depending on your experience level I would really suggest that you don't try any turns at all for a bit. Just hover or go in a straight line, then land.

You picked a great heli, btw, I love mine and it can fly great, but there was definitely a learning curve for me.

Owner1
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 10:51 AM
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United States, NM, Otero
Joined Feb 2013
16 Posts
Experience Level

I started flying an Esky Lama 4 about 6 years ago off and on as well as a few toy coaxials. Recently bought a GW Xieda 9958 and have been flying circuits with it in our gym. My biggest problem is with orientation, kind of like spacial dyslexia, so I panic sometimes when I am flying nose in. My touch is ok at this point but not great. I know much of my issues are with becoming familiar with the V200 but just want to make sure I have it set up as best I can, and know what to look for if something is not. Basic advice for a noob, I guess. This thread has been great in helping me pick this heli, but I am a little intimidated by the size and the power, not to mention the cost of crashing compared to the little $30 9958 I have been flying. Thanks for your help!
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 12:27 PM
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San Jose, California
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmcheesehead View Post
Finally got to fly my V200 yesterday for the first time. Very disappointing since the heli just wanted to tip over as soon as I spooled up. Came back home and leveled the swash and tightened up the tail rotter blades and turned down the toggle switches on the TX. Actually got it to hover today for a little bit, but I am, at best, a very conservative(timid, maybe) pilot so I set her down and went back to the battery charger feeling like I had gone from "trouble shooting mode" to "optimization mode" in one day, so pretty happy. Since I am a belt and suspenders kind of guy and don't want to wreck so soon (even though my spare parts arrived today) I have some next steps kind of questions. Direct answers would be great or just pointing me to post numbers in this thread would be fine too. First the tendency for the heli to want to tip over still. It is better now that I have the swash closer to level (I set it slightly to the right to offset the left drift tendency and the fact that it was mostly tipping left) but still it will just tip over after spool up. Do I just need to give is some gas (stop being so timid and take off the suspenders) and get it through it's own prop wash or would turning up the gyros help until I get more comfortable? I have also noticed that the gyros seem to be trying to work, but the servo movement is very slight. I can hear them moving a little but can't hardly see the movement. Is this normal? Finally, all of the POTs seem to be set to the "factory settings" I have seen throughout this thread. Should I set them otherwise and then work my way back to these to make my journey to confident pilot less hairy? Any other advice would be greatly appreciated. You guys are incredible and this tread has been very inspiring to me!
Greetings nmcheesehead

Based on the observations you are experiencing and the attempts to correct them tells me youre more than enough prepared to pilot the V200D01 successfully. Youre corrective action measures are correct by providing the "proper" offset
to couter the left drift tendency. Unlike a co-axial FP i.e fixed pitch helicopters (like you said) have a tendency of suffering from rotor wash on initial spool up when it is close to the ground. The left drift is a function of the
rotation of the main rotor in conjunction with the direct drive tail rotor(which should be just snug loose, not tight...same thing for the main rotor...it should be loosley snug, if you over tighten, you will suffer from oscillation
induced by the onboard integrated 3-axis gyro/reciever because given a gain setting via potentiameter, it is always calculating and compensating....and therefore overtightening the control surfaces will provide a force greater than
the gyros capability causing the gyro to enter oscillation mode in either direction....

Though it seems you are not suffering from this oscillation ... i feel it is still necessary to point out this effect as a common feedback.

You mentioned having the gain set to factory default. To be honest, I have been fortunate to not have any misalignments right of the box ...the kits I got. This is true for my V200d01 and 4F180 (a similar 4-blade design) ...concepts
for setup are virtually identical. It would therefore be best IMHO to not mess with these settings too much...lets give the following a try and let me know how it goes...

1) First address the issue of your control surfaces...make sure your tail rotor and main rotor is not"arm-wrestling" strength tight, but rather they should be snug... leaning toward snug loose..almost where Issac Newtons laws would
take over at the relaxed static state.

2) with the current known default setting...which was optimized as you mentioned...you were able to hover with: try and spool up about 4 feet above ground...and see if you can have FULL control hovering with the tail
pointed towards you....

3) Once you are successful with step 2, go ahead and experiment with the rate switch...the one you use to toggle the throws...and see how that feels...I personally prefer high rate, low rate is way too sluggish for me and
can be catastrophic in windy conditions where you need that extra ooomphh. Settle with the position of the toggle.

4) Once you have determined the position of the toggle rate switch, do a hover test with the tail pointed towards you, and adjust your trims accordingluy( rudder, bank, and pitch) do this at least 4 ft off the ground.
once you feel you have trimmed land the vessle and try taking off again...watch your lipo charge level, you do not want to fall below 3.2V per cell...I try land at 3.6V per cell to avoid any damage characteristics to the lipo cells

5) With the trimmed helicopter try taking off again....I anticipate the left drift to exist still. Continue ascending to min 4ft level and you should see that it hovers neutral. At this point I would find an open space with pavement
or hard surface floors with walls far away from the helicopter...lets try to make sure it will hold almost hands off with only minimal rudder and throttle management...if you are able to achieve this...try some hovering with starbord
side facing towards you...get the feel of it...spend couple of hours..same ting for the port side. I would tackle the nose in orientation last.

6) Step 5 should be your final destination of calling it good. If you are still experiencing balance issues at neutral attempt...then it would be evident on one, two or all of the control surfaces need some gain adjustment. If you
experience oscillations...this means you have too much gain, if you are experiencing a lack of balance at neutral you have too little gain. Adjustments should be used as a last resort...and should they be used, incremental hints
of a turn would be the proper way to go about it. POT's are versy sensitive devices on this craft. By the way adjust one POT surface at atime before moving on to the next....

dont tweak here and there and test....Do tweak here, leave others alone and test. Knock em down one by one...or you will never be able to find a happy medium


My last few words of wisdom....if you cant build a solid foundation with tail in, port in and starbord in throughly...do not bother to build more until you have mastered it.

Let me know what you find, and we can take it from there.

Regards

tengarang
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 01:14 PM
Walkera V200D01
Brazil, DF, Brasilia
Joined Dec 2012
11 Posts
HI, I have experienced unstable flights and a strong side tip over tendency WHEN I do not keep the heli still just after connecting the battery, when the heli is trying to sync with the remote. I think the Gyro needs to be stable during initialization. I suggest you connect the battery with the heli leveled and perfectly still, and keep it this way until it finishes this procedure. Mine hovers great out-of-box, it is very stable, with absolutely zero adjust.
When taking off, you need to correct the tip tendency only during take off, like previous post oriented. Flying high (4 mts or above) is a good advice, as I have lost control sometimes and giving gas saved me from crashes and time to recover orientation. I am starting my first turns and circles, and they are hard indeed for newbies like me. I can make a circle, but sometimes I lose orientation too, so I give gas and make a quick spin to point the tail rotor to myself and recover orientation.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 09:17 PM
Registered User
United States, NM, Otero
Joined Feb 2013
16 Posts
Good News and Bad

Well I took the advice Owner1 gave and just gave the tail rudder gyro time to lock, then hit the throttle a little harder and jumped it up to 6 or 8 feet. Wow what a difference. I was able to hover and make small adjustments with the sticks to keep it basically out of trouble, and was able to take off and land 6 or 7 times. I did have a strong drift to the left which I was trying to trim out. Had it trimmed to 80% right when the battery started to get a little weak. Also noticed at that time the heli was pulling harder to the left. I held it in my hand while spooling up and I could actually feel it was pulling left and when I spooled back down and the blades stopped, I saw the swash re-level itself. Was able to do this a couple of times which really didn't seem right. I had another battery ready, so I thought I would try to diagnose what was going on. Problem is the only battery I could get at the LHS was a Hyperion 1300mAh which is a little bigger. Don't know if that threw thing off but as soon as I took off, the heli darted to the right this time and before I could get off the sticks, she was into the wall of the gym. Broke the landing skid and main gear. No spare on the landing skid so hope I can find it domestically so I don't have to wait too long. May try to drill it out, pin it and epoxy it so I can get it back in the air. Really puzzled by the continued drift left that I couldn't trim out. I already have the swash set a little right of horizontal. Should I go some more? Also, what gives with the observation of swash resetting to neutral after spool down or do I need to have it happen again to give you guys more information. BTW, thanks tengarang, I was working through your list. Hope to get back on it soon, I sure have more confidence now.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 10:54 PM
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San Jose, California
Joined Aug 2010
3,579 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmcheesehead View Post
Well I took the advice Owner1 gave and just gave the tail rudder gyro time to lock, then hit the throttle a little harder and jumped it up to 6 or 8 feet. Wow what a difference. I was able to hover and make small adjustments with the sticks to keep it basically out of trouble, and was able to take off and land 6 or 7 times. I did have a strong drift to the left which I was trying to trim out. Had it trimmed to 80% right when the battery started to get a little weak. Also noticed at that time the heli was pulling harder to the left. I held it in my hand while spooling up and I could actually feel it was pulling left and when I spooled back down and the blades stopped, I saw the swash re-level itself. Was able to do this a couple of times which really didn't seem right. I had another battery ready, so I thought I would try to diagnose what was going on. Problem is the only battery I could get at the LHS was a Hyperion 1300mAh which is a little bigger. Don't know if that threw thing off but as soon as I took off, the heli darted to the right this time and before I could get off the sticks, she was into the wall of the gym. Broke the landing skid and main gear. No spare on the landing skid so hope I can find it domestically so I don't have to wait too long. May try to drill it out, pin it and epoxy it so I can get it back in the air. Really puzzled by the continued drift left that I couldn't trim out. I already have the swash set a little right of horizontal. Should I go some more? Also, what gives with the observation of swash resetting to neutral after spool down or do I need to have it happen again to give you guys more information. BTW, thanks tengarang, I was working through your list. Hope to get back on it soon, I sure have more confidence now.
priorities first, lets get her patched up and pretty again asap..mine as well get somespare main gears forecasting the fact that future attempts may result in more mishaps...

http://www.wowhobbies.com/hm-cb180-z...set-1-1-1.aspx

http://www.wowhobbies.com/hm-cb180-z...b180q-3-1.aspx

wowhobbies located in Orange City California....much faster than hong kong. aka china.

the fact that you did the hand held static test spooling up and then return to neutral after motor shut off......was this done with the helicopter held horizontal? Also it is very important that every time you need to change out batteries....understand that the random id code has already boud itself and locked...provided the Transmitter remains on during the exchange of batteries...this keeps the id lock...hence subsequent attempts to toggle on and off of the helicopter will retain its id lock....it should just bind up. Furthermore...when you are initializing the helicopter...it needs to be absolutely flat on the ground meaning zero variance on the gyro....so that the initialization can properly calibrate itself....not sure if this was executed as such before the crash to the gym wall.

If you have done the initialization correctly, based on the left bais at dynamic throttle then returning to zero at zero throttle....try to toggle one of the dip switches from where it is now...and see if it is still doing that.....if not , toggle the other dip switch...there should be 2 if I remember correctly...try different combinations of the dip switch...but remember the initial factory setting....which should be the correct setting.....

let me know...well get this fixed
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 05:47 AM
Owner1
United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Mar 2011
345 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmcheesehead View Post
Well I took the advice Owner1 gave and just gave the tail rudder gyro time to lock, then hit the throttle a little harder and jumped it up to 6 or 8 feet. Wow what a difference. I was able to hover and make small adjustments with the sticks to keep it basically out of trouble, and was able to take off and land 6 or 7 times. I did have a strong drift to the left which I was trying to trim out. Had it trimmed to 80% right when the battery started to get a little weak. Also noticed at that time the heli was pulling harder to the left. I held it in my hand while spooling up and I could actually feel it was pulling left and when I spooled back down and the blades stopped, I saw the swash re-level itself. Was able to do this a couple of times which really didn't seem right. I had another battery ready, so I thought I would try to diagnose what was going on. Problem is the only battery I could get at the LHS was a Hyperion 1300mAh which is a little bigger. Don't know if that threw thing off but as soon as I took off, the heli darted to the right this time and before I could get off the sticks, she was into the wall of the gym. Broke the landing skid and main gear. No spare on the landing skid so hope I can find it domestically so I don't have to wait too long. May try to drill it out, pin it and epoxy it so I can get it back in the air. Really puzzled by the continued drift left that I couldn't trim out. I already have the swash set a little right of horizontal. Should I go some more? Also, what gives with the observation of swash resetting to neutral after spool down or do I need to have it happen again to give you guys more information. BTW, thanks tengarang, I was working through your list. Hope to get back on it soon, I sure have more confidence now.
You made good progress--congrats. My advice on the left slide is not to worry about how level the swash appears, but to just adjust the swash in the direction needed to get the heli to hover without a drift.

Some simple directions for this: If your heli is drifting left, then you are compensating with right aileron to keep it in one spot, so see which way right aileron moves the swash, and then lengthen or shorten the swash ball links as necessary to compensate for the drift. I'd start with one full turn of the ball links, then try hovering again and see if you need more or less compensation.

The good news is that once you have your swash in the right place, you should never have to adjust it again. At least I never have in over 350 flights.

Keep us posted on your progress, and make a video if you can. I love watching these things fly!

Owner1
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 09:36 PM
Registered User
United States, NM, Otero
Joined Feb 2013
16 Posts
Well, she's airworthy again. Epoxied the landing skid back together and had bought 5 main gears when I got the heli. Thanks to you and the instructions on how to change the main gear everything is back together. Hopefully I will get a chance to try her out tomorrow. If I can avoid the hard touch downs, maybe the landing gear will hold up until I get a new one. Also spooled it up in my hand and I think tengarang was correct in his suspicion that I may have been holding the heli cocked to the left when I spooled it up and down. Did that tonight and got the same result. When I held it absolutely level, the swash didn't move when the head came to a stop. Gave the right servo arm 1/2 more turn (shorter) to see if that helps the drift. I also took off the battery door so my slightly larger battery will fit and am attaching a small piece of velcro to the frame and the battery to hold it in place. If I can get it to hover, I'll start working on the rest of the issues (which I'm sure are mostly pilot related).
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 12:11 AM
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San Jose, California
Joined Aug 2010
3,579 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmcheesehead View Post
Well, she's airworthy again. Epoxied the landing skid back together and had bought 5 main gears when I got the heli. Thanks to you and the instructions on how to change the main gear everything is back together. Hopefully I will get a chance to try her out tomorrow. If I can avoid the hard touch downs, maybe the landing gear will hold up until I get a new one. Also spooled it up in my hand and I think tengarang was correct in his suspicion that I may have been holding the heli cocked to the left when I spooled it up and down. Did that tonight and got the same result. When I held it absolutely level, the swash didn't move when the head came to a stop. Gave the right servo arm 1/2 more turn (shorter) to see if that helps the drift. I also took off the battery door so my slightly larger battery will fit and am attaching a small piece of velcro to the frame and the battery to hold it in place. If I can get it to hover, I'll start working on the rest of the issues (which I'm sure are mostly pilot related).
let us know how it goes...im sure it will be fine... every-time I fall...I never fall back on the same spot...true story
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 10:01 PM
Registered User
United States, NM, Otero
Joined Feb 2013
16 Posts
Well glued up landing skid supports is not a great solution. I flew my first flight yesterday with a good take off and landing. On the second take off, the heli started to wobble badly so I set her down, but too hard. Broke the landing skid support again. Found the source of the wobble though. One blade was cracked, probably from the crash a couple of day ago. So I glued up the support again (just can't wait for parts to arrive, got to fly now!). Today I got through an entire battery with good steady hovering (still a slight drift to the left) and nice soft take offs and landings. So I popped in the second battery (the larger Hyperion 1300) and got a slight drift to the right this time. That surprised me enough to panic and I set it down too hard. You guessed it, broke the landing gear again. I ordered two sets which should be here Thursday, but in the mean time the glue is drying again. This time I think I'll fish plate on another piece of plastic from a zip tie to see if it will hold up to a little harder touch down. So I have a couple of questions but over all, I think I am making some good progress and I am feeling much more comfortable. Watching her take off so nicely right after a repair was very reassuring. So, first, is it unusual for the heli to drift left using one battery, then right with a different size battery? If so, do I just live with it and get used to it, or should I standardize on one kind of battery and if so, what one do you suggest? Second, I have seen in this thread that several of you have suggested using a different set of landing gear supports such as the Blade 400 strut set. I may get a chance to visit the LHS tomorrow and they are an Eflight dealer, so I may take a look at them if they have them in stock. Any other suggestions (other than me getting softer on my landings, that one is a given). Having a ball, this is great fun!!!
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 11:43 PM
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tengarang's Avatar
San Jose, California
Joined Aug 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmcheesehead View Post
Well glued up landing skid supports is not a great solution. I flew my first flight yesterday with a good take off and landing. On the second take off, the heli started to wobble badly so I set her down, but too hard. Broke the landing skid support again. Found the source of the wobble though. One blade was cracked, probably from the crash a couple of day ago. So I glued up the support again (just can't wait for parts to arrive, got to fly now!). Today I got through an entire battery with good steady hovering (still a slight drift to the left) and nice soft take offs and landings. So I popped in the second battery (the larger Hyperion 1300) and got a slight drift to the right this time. That surprised me enough to panic and I set it down too hard. You guessed it, broke the landing gear again. I ordered two sets which should be here Thursday, but in the mean time the glue is drying again. This time I think I'll fish plate on another piece of plastic from a zip tie to see if it will hold up to a little harder touch down. So I have a couple of questions but over all, I think I am making some good progress and I am feeling much more comfortable. Watching her take off so nicely right after a repair was very reassuring. So, first, is it unusual for the heli to drift left using one battery, then right with a different size battery? If so, do I just live with it and get used to it, or should I standardize on one kind of battery and if so, what one do you suggest? Second, I have seen in this thread that several of you have suggested using a different set of landing gear supports such as the Blade 400 strut set. I may get a chance to visit the LHS tomorrow and they are an Eflight dealer, so I may take a look at them if they have them in stock. Any other suggestions (other than me getting softer on my landings, that one is a given). Having a ball, this is great fun!!!
The battery size should not be the specific cause to the left drift...but It can affect your CG, center of gravity. In any event I personally prefer having a heavier battery pack to move my CG more towards the nose causing a little more forward bias...since it is my preference to fly forward circuits with more jurisdiction over the forward momentum.

I would also recommend these landing gears

http://www.wowhobbies.com/hm-lama3-z...ndingskid.aspx

if landing is not your hottest cup of tea, I would go with these...I like them and still use them since they are relatively wider and over all more sturdy. The screw mount holes to the fuselage is identical...just plug & play. You can use these as a trainer and if you like em, leave em on like I did, or you can swap them out for the stock ones later on.
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Old Feb 27, 2013, 07:57 PM
Registered User
United States, NM, Otero
Joined Feb 2013
16 Posts
gyro question - I think?

Well, I'm giving up on that glued up landing skid. Come on US Postal Service, don't fail me now! I set it down a little hard again and broke it again, this time sacrificing a tail rotor. Oh well, I have two spare sets. Can I just change the one I broke, or should I change the pair? The real question is how to fix the reason I set it down hard. It seems I may be fighting the gyros, but what do you guys think? When I get it up to about eye level, she wants to drift to the right or forward, not always the same. Then when I correct (I.e. pull the stick to the left, it does move that way, but when I release it accelerates back to the right actually quite abruptly, and it freaks me out. How should I tame things down so that I can get more comfortable and at least get through a battery or two without wreaking something. Also, I found the post from js349 about how he built a tail rotor protector. Is this a good idea, do you know where I can get a photo, or is their a better solution for helping to save the tail?
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