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Old Feb 09, 2011, 01:05 AM
Fly Straight Fly High
tengarang's Avatar
San Jose, California
Joined Aug 2010
3,581 Posts
I have a challenge for all including myself. Honesty must be honored for this challenge. No crashes for the next 100 flights...any takers?

Im hesitant but it could be interesting to see how the average result is.

tengarang
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Old Feb 09, 2011, 06:21 AM
Registered User
United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Jan 2011
1,038 Posts
tengarang,

[Quote]: "No crashes for the next 100 flights...any takers?"

Very interesting challenge. But define, "crashes".
Examples: Blade strike or impact with object, but no damage. Or, blade strike or impact with object requiring repair/replacement of part(s). Or, blade strike or impact with object requiring a magnifying glass, padded tweezers and a small bag to recover pieces from the bottom of a smoking hole. :-)
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Last edited by dsobbe; Feb 09, 2011 at 06:41 AM. Reason: Clarification
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Old Feb 09, 2011, 08:20 AM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
6,166 Posts
Even if I were to hover only for the next 100 flights, I would not take this challenge with the V200D01. I have had a few crashes due to mechanical failure that could not have been prevented by good maintenance. One example was that the bottom of the main gear just got pulverized in mid air. Another instance was when the tail servo failed suddenly.

The best recorded stretch I have had was with my FBL Trex 450 with 75 flights. The last ended in a no damage crash because of motor failure. I flew the Trex 450 especially carefully because my flying field is very small and there may be other people around.
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Last edited by zadaw; Feb 09, 2011 at 08:44 AM.
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Old Feb 09, 2011, 11:14 AM
Registered User
United States, IL, Chicago
Joined Jan 2011
1,038 Posts
As long as we're discussing the pro's and con's of the main gear, it occurred to me that not much has been mentioned about the importance of gear "spacing".
If the gear spacing is too close (tight) tooth contact causes some binding which increases the electrical load and contributes to motor heating and shortened flight times. Also, the tight physical contact between the gears provides too much mechanical leverage, allowing more torque to pass through them before failing. That additional torque is then passed to the next weakest gear set. In a tail rotor strike that would be the bevel gears. On the other hand, too open (loose) a space between the gears provides a greater chance of stripping or chipping gear teeth.

After some trial and error I've found what seems to be a good gear spacing setup for the main gear and its mating gears. Also, for the bevel gears.
After installing a new main gear, loosen the motor screws and fit a narrow strip of tissue paper between the motor pinion and main gears by rotating the gears and letting the gear teeth grab the tissue and pull it between them. Then, gently press the pinion gear against the main gear while tightening the motor screws. Remove the tissue. Hold the main gear so that it can't rotate. At the same time rotate the motor case back and forth. When the gears are properly spaced you should see some small movement (rotation) of the pinion gear.
Next, loosen the screws holding the Tail Holder assembly to the Main Frame. This will allow you to adjust the spacing between the nylon Tail Straight Gear and the main gear. Fold a narrow strip of notebook paper in half so that you can slip this double layer of paper between these gears. Press the Tail Holder assembly forward towards the the main shaft while tightening the Tail Holder screws. Remove the paper strip. Hold the main gear so that it can't rotate. At the same time rotate the tail rotor back and forth. When the gears are properly spaced you should see some small movement (rotation) of the Tail Straight Gear.

Lastly, you can use the point of a small flat screwdriver to hold one bevel gear so that it cannot rotate. Rotate its mating gear back and forth. There should be enough clearance between the gears to allow for small rotational movement. The gears can be moved longitudinally on their shafts using a thin flat screwdriver blade as a lever to move them and adjust spacing.
One last thing about bevel gears. They're a press fit on their shafts. The 45 degree bevel between the gears will allow them to be moved on the shaft by a heavy overload; such as a rotor blade striking the ground. That movement can open the spacing between the gears. So, if you suddenly here a clicking sound when the rotors are spinning up or down that sound is the bevel gear teeth slapping against each other. If the excess spacing increases too much one gears teeth will ride up onto the top of the mating gears teeth and break them. So if you hear gears clicking, land and correct the problem. That's faster and easier than replacing gears.
After adjusting all of the gear spacings spin the main rotor head with your fingers. When everything is properly adjusted it should turn freely and quietly. More importantly, you will now have fewer gears damaged due to improper spacing. I hope you find this information useful.
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Last edited by dsobbe; Feb 09, 2011 at 05:06 PM. Reason: Added material.
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Old Feb 09, 2011, 11:45 AM
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shastamike's Avatar
United States, CA, Mt Shasta
Joined Jun 2010
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Thanks..I find that a good idea and very useful.
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Old Feb 09, 2011, 11:01 PM
Fly Straight Fly High
tengarang's Avatar
San Jose, California
Joined Aug 2010
3,581 Posts
you guys have a great point, what I meant by a "crash" is something that involves something you would not simulate/Do in a real helicopter; im also indirectly asking the extra effort of preflight maintinence prior to each flight. May it be simple screw falling off due to a certain maneuver. The reason I want to do this is to "characterize" some given data by fellow pilots in here with their feedback...100 flights is a stretch for this sorta campaign...I know but if achieved we can compare some data and actually come up with a realistic curve on the vehicles reliablilty over time. WIth this position we can make better criticism on the vessel comparing others and may perhaps compel Walkera if at all any reason to up their parts quality.

tengarang
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Old Feb 09, 2011, 11:03 PM
flying or crashing into air?
wizzard363's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Langwarrin
Joined Feb 2011
1,328 Posts
I used to use a bit of copy paper to set the gap for my main gear but I found that was a bit too big of a gap so I did it by feel .
I think tissue paper will be perfect thanks for the idea.
I will be converting mine to a belt driven tail soon so that should get rid of most tail probs and I have also fitted a basic tail guard that has minimised damage from crashes
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Last edited by wizzard363; Feb 09, 2011 at 11:07 PM. Reason: re size pic
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Old Feb 09, 2011, 11:06 PM
Fly Straight Fly High
tengarang's Avatar
San Jose, California
Joined Aug 2010
3,581 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsobbe View Post
As long as we're discussing the pro's and con's of the main gear, it occurred to me that not much has been mentioned about the importance of gear "spacing".
If the gear spacing is too close (tight) tooth contact causes some binding which increases the electrical load and contributes to motor heating and shortened flight times. Also, the tight physical contact between the gears provides too much mechanical leverage, allowing more torque to pass through them before failing. That additional torque is then passed to the next weakest gear set. In a tail rotor strike that would be the bevel gears. On the other hand, too open (loose) a space between the gears provides a greater chance of stripping or chipping gear teeth.

After some trial and error I've found what seems to be a good gear spacing setup for the main gear and its mating gears. Also, for the bevel gears.
After installing a new main gear, loosen the motor screws and fit a narrow strip of tissue paper between the motor pinion and main gears by rotating the gears and letting the gear teeth grab the tissue and pull it between them. Then, gently press the pinion gear against the main gear while tightening the motor screws. Remove the tissue. Hold the main gear so that it can't rotate. At the same time rotate the motor case back and forth. When the gears are properly spaced you should see some small movement (rotation) of the pinion gear.
Next, loosen the screws holding the Tail Holder assembly to the Main Frame. This will allow you to adjust the spacing between the nylon Tail Straight Gear and the main gear. Fold a narrow strip of notebook paper in half so that you can slip this double layer of paper between these gears. Press the Tail Holder assembly forward towards the the main shaft while tightening the Tail Holder screws. Remove the paper strip. Hold the main gear so that it can't rotate. At the same time rotate the tail rotor back and forth. When the gears are properly spaced you should see some small movement (rotation) of the Tail Straight Gear.

Lastly, you can use the point of a small flat screwdriver to hold one bevel gear so that it cannot rotate. Rotate its mating gear back and forth. There should be enough clearance between the gears to allow for small rotational movement. The gears can be moved longitudinally on their shafts using a thin flat screwdriver blade as a lever to move them and adjust spacing.
One last thing about bevel gears. They're a press fit on their shafts. The 45 degree bevel between the gears will allow them to be moved on the shaft by a heavy overload; such as a rotor blade striking the ground. That movement can open the spacing between the gears. So, if you suddenly here a clicking sound when the rotors are spinning up or down that sound is the bevel gear teeth slapping against each other. If the excess spacing increases too much one gears teeth will ride up onto the top of the mating gears teeth and break them. So if you hear gears clicking, land and correct the problem. That's faster and easier than replacing gears.
After adjusting all of the gear spacings spin the main rotor head with your fingers. When everything is properly adjusted it should turn freely and quietly. More importantly, you will now have fewer gears damaged due to improper spacing. I hope you find this information useful.
this is some good literature...i will put this knowledge to action...

my esc seems to be really hot after each flight...could it be my gears are too tight ?
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 03:15 AM
flying or crashing into air?
wizzard363's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Langwarrin
Joined Feb 2011
1,328 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tengarang View Post
this is some good literature...i will put this knowledge to action...

my esc seems to be really hot after each flight...could it be my gears are too tight ?
yes that can cause a hot esc
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 06:56 AM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
6,166 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tengarang View Post
you guys have a great point, what I meant by a "crash" is something that involves something you would not simulate/Do in a real helicopter; im also indirectly asking the extra effort of preflight maintinence prior to each flight. May it be simple screw falling off due to a certain maneuver. The reason I want to do this is to "characterize" some given data by fellow pilots in here with their feedback...100 flights is a stretch for this sorta campaign...I know but if achieved we can compare some data and actually come up with a realistic curve on the vehicles reliablilty over time. WIth this position we can make better criticism on the vessel comparing others and may perhaps compel Walkera if at all any reason to up their parts quality.

tengarang
This is my repair list over 106 quite intensive flights.

10 main wheels (8 stripped, 2 with the bottom part falling off)
4 small tail gears
2 main blades (=1 pair)
1 tail strut
1 aileron servo
1 Canopy
1 slightly bent skid

There was an incident when the screws of the tail box came loose (my fault). Another crash occured because the tail servo seized up in mid-flight for no reason. It worked properly afterwards. As for the aileron servo, it was connected to a lost model detector so I am wondering whether that had anything to do the malfunction.
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Last edited by zadaw; Feb 10, 2011 at 07:03 AM.
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 01:20 PM
Registered User
Joined Mar 2010
23 Posts
Hi "Z", Did you sell your 200? If not, would you be interested in selling it to me? I've purchase one so far (sight unseen) and it didn't turn out so good. But you have gone through your so much, I am pretty sure I could compare my parts and assemblies to yours and get a better picture of how mine should be, (and maybe I could actualy fly it!!!! Deano
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Old Feb 10, 2011, 04:50 PM
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stretch1100's Avatar
USA, IL, Elgin
Joined Jan 2006
664 Posts
Fitted this motor to my V200 today. Some folks are using it on the 4F200 as well per that thread. I must say it's nice for only spending $15 dollars shipped. After doing circuits in my living room for 5 minutes the motor was not even warm. The esc was just barley warm. Just had to swap the motor shafts and pinion from the stock motor and widen the mounting holes on the heli frame.


4800KV Outrunner Brushless Motor for TREX 250 200


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Last edited by stretch1100; Feb 10, 2011 at 04:55 PM.
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Old Feb 11, 2011, 07:13 AM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
6,166 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrodeano View Post
Hi "Z", Did you sell your 200? If not, would you be interested in selling it to me? I've purchase one so far (sight unseen) and it didn't turn out so good. But you have gone through your so much, I am pretty sure I could compare my parts and assemblies to yours and get a better picture of how mine should be, (and maybe I could actualy fly it!!!! Deano
Deano, I am thinking of putting a 4F180 head on it and so I am keeping it for the moment. If the head on your V200 is functional, you could try putting it on your CB180Z to see whether it works.
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Old Feb 11, 2011, 10:41 AM
msr,CB100,UFlyS,V120-V200D01
Tennessee, USA
Joined Dec 2007
249 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
Deano, I am thinking of putting a 4F180 head on it and so I am keeping it for the moment. If the head on your V200 is functional, you could try putting it on your CB180Z to see whether it works.
What has happened when you destroyed your main gears? My V120 and V200 are my favorite helis. I haven't crashed my V200 yet but I'm only flying "safe" flights and indoors where there's not much room to do anything else. Mine was good out of the box with just a minor adjustment to the linkages.
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Old Feb 11, 2011, 11:24 AM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by js349 View Post
What has happened when you destroyed your main gears? My V120 and V200 are my favorite helis. I haven't crashed my V200 yet but I'm only flying "safe" flights and indoors where there's not much room to do anything else. Mine was good out of the box with just a minor adjustment to the linkages.
I suspect that the torgue was too great for the gear to handle, atlhough I never flew at full throttle or yank the throttle suddenly. The part of the gear holding the pin simply disintegrated in mid-flight, leaving the rotor head unconnected to the motor. I am sure it was the main gear pin that was responsible for the damage to the gear.

With the three bladed 4F200, I saw a similar situation but with a different outcome. This time, the gear itself was not damaged, but the main gear pin was shattered into 3 pieces.

It seems that Walkera just have not got the balance right between the strength of the gear and the strength of the pin in these helis.
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