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Old Aug 13, 2010, 02:41 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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I make an awful lot of suggestions and some happen and many do not. Charger designers /manufactures/ vendors are IMO way to concerned with cutting a few dollars here and there in the cost. If a very nice charger can be sold for $200 then a great one should be possible at $250 and a fantastic one at $350. Those who fly $1,000 plus aircraft with $800 Transmitters should not be overly concerned with a few more dollars invested in a charger IMO but then I am not the one trying to make a living selling chargers.

Charles
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Old Aug 13, 2010, 02:43 PM
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I would be surprised if existing iC3010B chargers could have the balancing power increased just via firmware. Remember that doubling the balance current means up to quadrupling the power that has to be dissipated by the balancer components and the heat that has to be extracted from the charger. I doubt they could manage it without hardware changes.

I think the reason neither charger offers 3A balancing is the incremental cost of handling that much power/heat in the balancing circuitry is just too much to be viable, especially since only a very small portion of the market is keen on getting it.
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Old Aug 13, 2010, 03:06 PM
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Most balance port connectors are only rated for 3A max.

Now, if you look at 3A per port on an 8S charger figure that's 12.6W/port (worst case) you need to dissipate. At 8 ports that's 100.8W to dissipate. Now, if you look at say 100W discharge capability for the the main charge/discharge leads and 100W for the balance leads you can see it's not going to be small or cheap.
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Old Aug 13, 2010, 03:50 PM
A man with too many toys
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteB View Post
Most balance port connectors are only rated for 3A max.

Now, if you look at 3A per port on an 8S charger figure that's 12.6W/port (worst case) you need to dissipate. At 8 ports that's 100.8W to dissipate. Now, if you look at say 100W discharge capability for the the main charge/discharge leads and 100W for the balance leads you can see it's not going to be small or cheap.
A good fan will do the trick. You can only have 7 ports taking balance power as at least I cell has to be the low one. You would also have the firmware monitor the temperature and adjust current to stay below the limit.

I donít mind paying a little extra for a quality product that will speed up charging.


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Old Aug 13, 2010, 04:02 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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I don’t mind paying a little extra for a quality product that will speed up charging.
Amen. I had an excellent example of this just this morning. A 3S 2200 that I had pulled a bit low Tuesday evening and I had failed to charge it up to normal storage voltage.
Sometimes I punish a LiPoly just to see how well they can handle it. While balance charging it on the 3010B it took much longer to charge than normal due to the simple fact that when cells reached 3.85 charge rate was reduced from 10.5A to around 3.5A until the cells were better balanced and then it ramped back up.

Now some would suggest that I could have set balancing to start at the CV stage instead of at the storage voltage level and that is a valide point but PL8 would have handled the inbalance much faster based on an awful lot of past experience.

I still prefer the two stage balancing used by TP.

Charles
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Old Aug 13, 2010, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by RC Man View Post
A good fan will do the trick. You can only have 7 ports taking balance power as at least I cell has to be the low one. You would also have the firmware monitor the temperature and adjust current to stay below the limit.

I donít mind paying a little extra for a quality product that will speed up charging.


I wasn't saying it can't be done. I'm just saying it adds cost and size. I'm all for it myself, but some folks agonize about spending and extra $20-$50 on a charger.
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Old Aug 13, 2010, 10:31 PM
Southern Pride
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That’s especially for us that fly large high voltage packs and fly them as long as possible because they are expensive.
That is rather amusing in that the small packs I fly cost more than the large ones you fly.

Higher balancing power is needed due to the simple fact that 10C and greater LiPoly charging will become common before that long.

Charles
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Old Aug 15, 2010, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
While balance charging it on the 3010B it took much longer to charge than normal due to the simple fact that when cells reached 3.85 charge rate was reduced from 10.5A to around 3.5A until the cells were better balanced and then it ramped back up.
I thought the ICharger only reduced current when target cell voltage was reached? It should start bleeding at storage voltage, not balance the pack and finish the charge afterwords.

Fred
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 05:08 AM
A man with too many toys
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I see from reading Hobby King comments that a lot of 3010Bís have gone up in flames. Whatís the story with that? Are they going to fix the problem or what?



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Old Aug 16, 2010, 05:34 AM
Southern Pride
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Here is the problem with such reports. What is the percentage of failed ones sold?

I have been around long enough to have read right here on RC Groups of , failed ,E tec,E flite,Cell Pro 4, Thunder Power 1010C ,610, FMA Balance Pro HD, AF 109,and most every brand of charger out there. The question is how many sold and how many failed and did they fail due to equipment failure or operator error?

Charles
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 10:09 AM
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Just spend some time reading the various charger threads. When 50%-75%+ of the posts in any dedicated product thread are posts by many different people reporting various problems over an extended period of time that tells me that there's a serious problem with that product and it's not isolated to a single or small group of users.
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 10:50 AM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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FWIW I have two icharger 208Bs and a 3010B. They get used most every day. I have used both of the 208B since first available and the only real issue was corrected with a firmware reflash. IMO most of the icharger issues are due to operator error. Newbie purchases a icharger as they are widely talked about ,resonable cost and as soon as they get it they start trying parallel and series charging, discharging with an external resistor (load) changing every setting there is like they really know what they are doing, pay no attation to recomended connection sequench and they post their issues when their new charger fails.

Purchase any iCharger from David at Progressive RC and he will trake care of you even if you do something really stupid and smoke the charger , balancing board or whatever..

Charles
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 01:57 PM
A man with too many toys
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A better question would be has anyone on this forum had a 3010B smoke or fire and what are the details.
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 02:05 PM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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Only issues I have had with the 3010B was gross firmware errors. As supplied with release firmware after months of intense beta testing (so I was told) it took me two days to find a 300% error when doing regenerative discharging above 27 amps. One or two days latter another users found a similiar error during charging within a limited range. Two firmwaqree up dates in about one week and no more issues that I am aware of.

3010B as supplied Ver. 3.13E (I believe) I am running 3.13g and have been since first available.

Note I am not stating there have been no problems posted but once again most are user created.

Charles
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Last edited by everydayflyer; Aug 16, 2010 at 02:40 PM.
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Old Aug 20, 2010, 08:27 AM
Southern Pride
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flarssen View Post
The 3010B also does CC/CV if you ask for it by setting the "Discharge reduce" % value.

Maybe because other users have denied the existence of the issue?? Anyway it will "save" the low cell based on minimum voltage defined for the chemistry and terminate with an error and not in the usual way.

Regarding the charge speed tests, the balance setting of the 3010B is relevant and nice to know.

Fred
A correction to a prior post of mine.
I stated 3010B was using default setting however I had changed the Default balancing point from CV to Storage. This means balancing starts at 3.85 instead of 4.2 per cell . This is why the charger reduced the charge rate with a 3S LiPoly that had been flown down way to low. The charger reduced the charge rate so that the balancing coukd keep up and after cells were balanced the rate increased again.

I was able to spot this as it happened again this morning. It set balancing to start at CV and the same battery charged and balanced normaly.

FYI PL8 starts balancing at 3.8 during charge by defaul and I have start balancing at Storage with my iChargers since I first started using them. The extra balancing power of the POWERLAB 8 deals with inblance at this voltage better. Each must decide for themself the best point to start balancing.

Also not sure but I do not believe that Discharge reduce is available on the iChargers in the storage mode. One could I suppose however create a Discharge to 3.85 using Discharge reduce and save it to a Memory slot.

Charles
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