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Old Aug 09, 2010, 09:02 PM
Southern Pride
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OK have it your way, I should have stated commonly available at reasonable cost with US support.

Now can we please get back to Thread purpose which is iCharger 3010b PL8 comparison.

RC Man brought up the Thunder Power charger question and here we go off on a tangent .

Charles
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Old Aug 09, 2010, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
OK have it your way, I should have stated commonly available at reasonable cost with US support.

Now can we please get back to Thread purpose which is iCharger 3010b PL8 comparison.

RC Man brought up the Thunder Power charger question and here we go off on a tangent .

Charles
As long as you can get your facts straight I don't think continuing the thread will be a problem. The fact is, the Schulze and Orbit were commonly available as they were the only high power chargers available at the time.
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Old Aug 12, 2010, 06:37 PM
FW190
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I'm going to be buying a Powerlab 8 & I use mostly Zippy batteries with JST-XH balance connectors. Does FMA have a balance board for this connector in 2S-6S. Thanks.
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Old Aug 12, 2010, 06:49 PM
Southern Pride
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Yes they have adapters for most every type balancing connector however be advised that they also now have a new business model where shipping if direct from the manufacture and shipping cost are high for small items so be sure and order any adapters you need when you order the charger.

Announched here

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1279425

http://www.fmadirect.com/
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Old Aug 12, 2010, 06:59 PM
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Here is the direct link to Revolectrix. This is FMA's business partner where the FMA products are ordered from.

http://www.revolectrix.com/

Glen
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Old Aug 12, 2010, 07:06 PM
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Thanks Everyday, do you happen to know if the JST_XH coonectors I need are the GP/KO board that FMA sells. Thanks Glen for the addy.
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Old Aug 12, 2010, 07:19 PM
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Yes the GP/KO is the one you want.

Glen
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Old Aug 12, 2010, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
Earlier I listed some comparions . Here are some likes / dislikes

iCharger can be used to discharge Lipolys to store without having to use balancing leads. PL8 requires balancing leads which is a bother at times and seems unnecessary as it does not balance during discharge,however PL8 does monitor cells voltages during discharge and leaves cells closer to 3.85 each. .

3010B had built in ability to store the charge / discharge (cycle) data for 10 cycles and PL 8 does not (must be used with interface and computer to log cycles).

PL8 can discharge at 100 watts internal discharge without heating issues in what I call normal temperatures. 3010B has 60 watts set by default and can be bumped up to 80 watts but gets way to hot past 60 watts ,IMO.

Both are capable of Regenerative discharging but as above PL8 requires balancing leads and 3010B does not.

Charles
Thanks for all the time/effort you put into testing Charles.

I'm in the market for one of these chargers, and I stepped into some planes that fly 6S 5000mAh+ packs, and can no longer live with my 50w charger, heh.

I like the fact you mention the PL8 can discharge at 100 watts without heating issues - as sometimes I return from the field with charge lipos, and I don't have a deep cell so regenerative discharging really isn't an option for me.

I also like to see that the PL8 has faster balancing compared to the 3010b, albeit not that much faster, it still is a tad bit faster. Do you think I would ever notice the difference being that I fly 6s 5000mAh packs?

Thanks for the comparisons!
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Old Aug 13, 2010, 05:29 AM
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Thanks again Glen!
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Old Aug 13, 2010, 10:29 AM
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Thanks for all the time/effort you put into testing Charles.

I'm in the market for one of these chargers, and I stepped into some planes that fly 6S 5000mAh+ packs, and can no longer live with my 50w charger, heh.

I like the fact you mention the PL8 can discharge at 100 watts without heating issues - as sometimes I return from the field with charge lipos, and I don't have a deep cell so regenerative discharging really isn't an option for me.

I also like to see that the PL8 has faster balancing compared to the 3010b, albeit not that much faster, it still is a tad bit faster. Do you think I would ever notice the difference being that I fly 6s 5000mAh packs?

Thanks for the comparisons!
A high balance current becomes more important as packs age and the cells become uneven. For new packs that have well matched cells it wonít make much difference.

Personally I think that high balance current is important. I really donít know why iCharger made a 30 amp charger with such low balance current. It just doesnít make any sense to me.


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Old Aug 13, 2010, 10:43 AM
Southern Pride
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I really don’t know why iCharger made a 30 amp charger with such low balance current
Well it makes just as much sense as it does for FMA to make the CP10 with a max of 10A charge rate and 1A balancing and then to turn around and release the final(?) PowerLab8 Firmware with balancing limited to 1A when max. charge rate is 30 Amps.

CellPro 10 has balancing power equal to 1/10(10%) of charging power and PowerLab 8 only has 1/30 (3.33%) . Still aprox twice that of the iCharger 3010B.

What amazes me is that Thunder Power 210BV Smart balancer had 450 mAh of balancing power almost 5 years ago when most were using smaller packs and now that large packs are the norm no one has stepped up with some really serious balancing power.

OK , I know full well that matched cells do not require balancing much if any at all and I fully realize that many are happy with a Blinky type balancer that has approx. 50 mA balancing power which IMO is a sad joke with anything larger than a 850 mAh LiPoly or one that does not really require balancing in the first place.

Charles
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Old Aug 13, 2010, 11:32 AM
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So could a future firmware release allow either charger to open up its balancing potential?
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Old Aug 13, 2010, 11:54 AM
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Yes but it is not going to happen IMO.

One of those areas that I have been requested not to discuss on the boards.
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Old Aug 13, 2010, 02:32 PM
A man with too many toys
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Well it makes just as much sense as it does for FMA to make the CP10 with a max of 10A charge rate and 1A balancing and then to turn around and release the final(?) PowerLab8 Firmware with balancing limited to 1A when max. charge rate is 30 Amps.

CellPro 10 has balancing power equal to 1/10(10%) of charging power and PowerLab 8 only has 1/30 (3.33%) . Still aprox twice that of the iCharger 3010B.

What amazes me is that Thunder Power 210BV Smart balancer had 450 mAh of balancing power almost 5 years ago when most were using smaller packs and now that large packs are the norm no one has stepped up with some really serious balancing power.

OK , I know full well that matched cells do not require balancing much if any at all and I fully realize that many are happy with a Blinky type balancer that has approx. 50 mA balancing power which IMO is a sad joke with anything larger than a 850 mAh LiPoly or one that does not really require balancing in the first place.

Charles


You are correct, the PL8 and 3010B should both have 3 amp balance current. Balance at 10% does seam like a good goal for any charger. Since you are in contact with some of the designers you should suggest that, especially to the iCharger designers.


Thatís especially for us that fly large high voltage packs and fly them as long as possible because they are expensive.



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Old Aug 13, 2010, 02:37 PM
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It's my understanding that the PL8 originally had 2Ah balancing capability per node, but this was reduced to 1Ah/node in the final production version. Perhaps some of the beta testers can confirm this.
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