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Old Aug 15, 2010, 09:06 PM
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USA, NY, New York
Joined Jan 2005
202 Posts
Ugh... one more night without the extra... UPS should get it to me tomorrow! So pumped.

Too bad weather calls for rain all week...
Im definitely going to program in the flaperons just to keep things interesting at the flick of a switch on my tx. Should be great. Will try and post pictures as soon as I get it in the air.

And seriously Jaskel, grow up. There are a lot of jerks in the world, I do not come to rcgroups to find more.
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Old Aug 15, 2010, 09:21 PM
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Victoria, BC
Joined Oct 2009
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You know, I don't own one of these but I most likely will down the road, however I have read all the hype about the so called wing issue and I also have flown one. That came about just the other day. Because of all the whining about the wing, when I was given the chance to fly the extra, I almost passed but I didn't.

Take off took only a couple of feet off the grass strip and wouldn't you know it, as the plane got airborne something fell off. It turned out to be the right side wheel so right off I knew I was looking at a more challenging landing.

Considering the landing issue I really wanted to feel as comfortable with this thing as I possibly could so I played around with multiple maneuvers and especially slow flight wanting to learn as much about the slow flight characteristics as I could before doing that final approach. I had seen this same plane fall out of the sky previously when the owner cut the throttle so I felt (and all tha bad publicity added to this) that I was going to be in big trouble.

Bottom line is that I couldn't find anything significantly wrong with the airplane even dead stick. If you keep a bit of speed up it glides nicely just as any other plane. It did seem super responsive to control input at high throttle settings but that was expected as well.

I was able to bring it in with the expected nose over on touchdown when the wheel less landing gear hit the grass but no injuries to aircraft or spectators.

Now I am not much of a pilot. I still have trouble doing knife edges and hovers and other maneuvers etc. Inspection of the airfoil on the wing reveals the same flat spot that everyone complains about but I didn't see any big issues with flying or landing or slow speed maneuvers. As far as nosing it over with out the wheel that is is what I do more often then not anyway on our grass strip.

Frankly I think all the hype about the poor flying characteristics can be attributed to poor flying skills in many cases. I saw an airplane totaled today because the owner cartwheeled it in and broke the fuse and wing etc.. He claimed the wind caught it but it really looked to me like he "dumb thumbed" it and that's all there was too it.

I think the extra 300 flies just fine. Expect I'll be getting one once I tire of my Gemini.
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 01:03 AM
T-28C, Extra 300, Beast UMX
GimpyPilot's Avatar
United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Jul 2009
529 Posts
I just spent some time over at another hobby site that shall rename nameless and like here noticed a fascinating pattern in posts about the Extra.

Early reviews of the PZ Extra 300 were all raves and flowers and puppy dog tails - 'great agility', 'great power', 'flies on rails'.

Then a few people started landing hard and ripping out the gear, then there was the discovery of the flat outer foil and all of the sudden the plane was 'dangerous' and could not be 'safely' flown in its stock condition.

I completed over 30 trouble free and damage free flights on mine before dumb-thumbing it from 2 ft at full power while avoiding a fence with help from the gusty Mission Bay cross winds this afternoon (I am not the guy Bad Attitude was talking about above - lol), quick cowl repair (done) and a new prop (tomorrow), it will be flying when I get back from my trip on Saturday. If I had gotten the power out before it hit the dirt it would have had no damage.

I don't think you can find a plane out there that is comparable in terms of cost, damage tolerance, ease of repair, performance out of the box, good looks or support, the PZ Extra 300 is really an impressive value and is totally predictable if flown within it's limits (just like ANY other airplane).

I can understand how the guys who bought it expecting something else (more 3D or balsa-level stiffness for example) might be miffed, but I think much if not most of the rest of it can be attributed to flying too slow, pulling too many G's for the speed, or the other things that will lead to loss of control in these or real planes.

Mine has still not surprised me in any way and I am in no way a super experienced guy (coming up on 400 flights now in the past 13 months). But when I start with a new plane OR after modification (real or RC) the first thing I do is go out and explore the various speed limitations it has, slow speed and stall characteristics and the like - I can't say whether the folks who had issues landing the plane too hot or whatever had made similar efforts to learn the limitations of the plane - it is a little heavy for its size for example - but I think PZ has done a pretty good job with this plane.
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 01:22 PM
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Joined Jul 2006
547 Posts
I think many of the post about the Extra 300 can be attributed to the squeaky wheel phenomenon. Y’know the squeakiest wheels are the loudest and get all the attention…I also think Gimpy Pilot nailed it that people are quick to jump on a bandwagon of blaming ‘something else’ other then themselves when something goes wrong. Whether it is a flat wing, a bad lipo or the most common I see on here is ‘the receiver’. I bought my Extra used, the landing gear had been ripped out, the vertical stab had been broken, the wing tips are flat and the dang thing still flies great! It’s laughable that people label this plane dangerous, I don’t find it any more dangerous than all the other foam killing machines with spinning blades of death that I fly.

I’ve flown the PZ Extra with the wings right side up and flipped. Honestly either way the plane flies great, the ONLY difference I’ve noticed is the speed when landing. You can land slower when the wings are flipped. Several times on this forum I’ve seen it mentioned that this plane doesn’t fly well at ¼ throttle. None of the planes in my hangar fly well at ¼ throttle! If I fly my Super Cub at ¼ throttle I will end up hitting the ground since there isn’t enough power to keep it afloat. I’ve seen posts in some of the forums that people admit the planes flies well with the wings flipped, but yet they still complain. Go outside and fly the dang plane or sell it and be done with it! But some people are never satisfied. Which brings me back to my first point…the squeaky wheels on here just want to make noise. I don’t know what kind of grease Parkzone could possibly give them to silence them so they just keep on squeakin.

Interestingly enough, everyone that I’ve talked to in the real world (outside of rcgroups) loves the PZ Extra. Some had their wings flipped, others kept everything stock, but they all seemed well pleased with it. Food for thought.

Is this the best sport/aerobatic/3D plane out there? Probably not, is it a great flying airplane with plenty of power and agility? Absolutely.
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GimpyPilot View Post
Nose heavy? Tail heavy? Need more info. When set to the 3" figure in the manual it will feel wrong. The suggested CG now sees the battery anywhere from only the cables under the strap to about 1/2" of battery aft of the strap.

I set my 11.1V 3S 2200 so that the aft end of the battery is even with the aft end of the aileron servo wire channel in the foam, basically, I have 1/4" to 3/8" of battery showing aft of the battery strap.
Do you happen to know where that puts your CG in relation to the front of the wing? When you say you only have about 3/8" of battery aft of the battery strap, that sounds like a majority of the battery is forward, which is a LONG way from ParkZone's recommendation.

By the way, I had an isue with the attachment of the wheels and wheel pants to the threaded landing gear rod on mine. On my first landing, the right hand pair went flying, as the cap screw that holds the assembly on to the threaded rod let go and was lost in the weeds. I took a screwdriver to the cap screw on the side that didn't let go and was surprised to find that a very light pressure could cause the cap screw to slip on the threads of the rod...i.e. it couldn't be tightened enough to hold everything together under even the most modest stress.

I went to my LHS and bought some collets with allen head set screws and modified the wheel pants so that I could put the collets on and tighten them down to the threaded rod via a hole I drilled on the underside of the plastic housing that the cap screw used to sit in. Seems very solid now, giving me much more confidence that I won't lose the assembly on future landings.
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 02:31 PM
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FireyFate's Avatar
USA, AZ, Surprise
Joined Apr 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjon12 View Post
Do you happen to know where that puts your CG in relation to the front of the wing? When you say you only have about 3/8" of battery aft of the battery strap, that sounds like a majority of the battery is forward, which is a LONG way from ParkZone's recommendation.
My battery sits about the same as his... it sits so far forward the strap barely grabs the battery. This puts my CG at 3 inches from the leading edge of the wing... which is what PZ recommended, it's just that the pictures in the manual are wrong.
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by FireyFate View Post
My battery sits about the same as his... it sits so far forward the strap barely grabs the battery. This puts my CG at 3 inches from the leading edge of the wing... which is what PZ recommended, it's just that the pictures in the manual are wrong.
I had my directions backwards when I wrote my previous post...I've only flown the aircraft once and forgot which way the battery slides into the battery bay. I see that it slides forward into the aircraft, putting a majority of the weight forward. So you're flying at ParkZone's recommended forward setting.

Does this make the aircraft nose heavy, or pretty much balanced level?
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 03:27 PM
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USA, AZ, Surprise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjon12 View Post
I had my directions backwards when I wrote my previous post...I've only flown the aircraft once and forgot which way the battery slides into the battery bay. I see that it slides forward into the aircraft, putting a majority of the weight forward. So you're flying at ParkZone's recommended forward setting.

Does this make the aircraft nose heavy, or pretty much balanced level?
I'd say it is very slightly nose heavy, but I prefer to err on that side instead of being tail heavy. Still knife edges nicely on my high rates. I might experiment a little further back eventually, but for now I am enjoying it.
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 03:52 PM
2948 scale Combat
critter1340's Avatar
Maryland
Joined Aug 2004
600 Posts
I have the Extra 300 for about 5 weeks now. I have taken the pants off and put on over
sized Wheels for grass landing. I want to put the .25 in here and see what I can do.
More latter.
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 04:23 PM
T-28C, Extra 300, Beast UMX
GimpyPilot's Avatar
United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Jul 2009
529 Posts
kjon12, PZ's bulletin (http://www.parkzone.com/Products/Bul...ProdID=PKZ5175) suggests 1/4" to 1/2" of battery aft of the strap which puts the cg about 2 3/4" from the leading edge as I recall.

I read somewhere that the plane's designer flies with his battery stuffed full forward with only the cables under the strap but I found that to be too nose heavy for my taste.

With 3/8" of battery showing aft of the strap (PZ 11.1V 3S 20C 2200 from my T-28) it is pitch perfect, set the pitch and it holds it through moderate power changes but I especially like how when I pull the power off abeam my intended touch point and roll into base turn it just sets itself up for a near hands off approach - if I ever got to fly in no winds or steady light winds I am convinced that it would darn near land hands off.

FWIW, I do not have any pitch excursions with power change as reported by some.

I did set D/R on the elevator (70% I believe) and the ailerons (80% I believe) - I also set the aileron travel to 120%. I am not a big Expo proponent, but I may experiment some with that for elevator, or lower my D/R setting to tame the pitch response - it is very fast/responsive in pitch.

As a testament to the popularity of the model here in San Diego, the LHS is still out of 12x6 props and is also now out of the 11x7 - I am on the waiting list for when the 12x6's arrive.

On closer examination this morning I discovered that the motor mount stator nut had separated from the motor base plate during my accident yesterday and was irreparable, so I picked up a Power 15-950kV at LHS which appears to be a close match - I am not one to experiment with power systems but this looks pretty straightforward - will report back next weekend (I am out of pocket this week picking my daughter up in NM).
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 05:19 PM
2948 scale Combat
critter1340's Avatar
Maryland
Joined Aug 2004
600 Posts
My motor did the same thing. I called HH and they sent me a new one at no charge.
I,m a Happy Extra 300 owner.
That E-flite power .15 is a little hotter, you will like it.
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 06:53 PM
T-28C, Extra 300, Beast UMX
GimpyPilot's Avatar
United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Jul 2009
529 Posts
Thanks Critter, I didn't even think of calling HH since it was my own fault - would have been fine if I had pulled power before it hit, but things happen fast from 2 ft.

Did your motor growl any when you were flying before it gave? Mine had a pronounced growl when operating, from first battery pack, ran fine and never seemed hot but it sounded different. Just curious.

Also, anyone make a recommendation for a 3-blade for the Extra? I am curious what should work out to be a good size 3-blade for a more scale appearance - I know they are less efficient but still curious. Any good prop calculators ou there?
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 08:32 PM
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USA, NY, New York
Joined Jan 2005
202 Posts
I received my extra today. Looks awesome! Motor looks alot bigger than I expected. Looks like a solid build. A bit on the heavy side but the motor should do just fine with it. Right now i am a little stuck. I tried to put on a different spinner that requires you to use two small screws to actually mount the spinner to the spinner back plate. What can go wrong? Stripped the screw. I mounted the spinner and it was a little bit off so I wanted to take it off. I stripped one of the screws in doing so. Any ides how to get it out of that small hole? Any help would be appreciated. BTW, the E-Flite Ultimate (balsa version) spinner looks ALOT better on this extra than the stock. The nose is longer and sharper and i think it looks great. Will post pic once I figure out how to clear up this mess with the @#!( screw.
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 09:09 PM
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Joined Jan 2005
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i searched for a bit online and I think the best thing to do is get one of those small screw extractors. I might actually have one lodged up somewhere in my took box.

Anyway, how did you guys mount the tail. I feel like using the tape by itself not the best idea. Would foam safe CA work well without eating the paint?

thanks
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 09:45 PM
T-28C, Extra 300, Beast UMX
GimpyPilot's Avatar
United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Jul 2009
529 Posts
Sam I only used the tape for the horizontal tail (same as I did for my PZ T-28) - IF you end up dinging the stab (or decide to repaint it because there are too many in the area that look the same) it will make remove and replace easier.

Just my $0.03 ($0.02 adjusted for inflation).
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