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Old Dec 14, 2010, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by aronph View Post
are there any wood 3 blade props that would work, or this plane not worthy of this type prop?
I am not sure of any 3 bladed wood props however some people have used a the 3 bladed plastic prop from the BF-109.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=2939

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaxFX View Post
what brand of 12x6 u r using. i have buy 2 diferent brands 1 GWS i am afraid to use this prop because it seems that will go to break apart at full thrutle. and the otherone not sure the brand was from hobbyking a composite one 12x6 but that thing weight like 65 grams extreme heavy.
I have been using the APC 12x6e (electric) prop. I think this is the one most people reference for the 12x6 prop.
http://www.bmkdesigns.net/apc-12x6e-prop.html
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Old Dec 14, 2010, 09:34 PM
Takeoff=Option Landing=Must
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USA, NY, Depew
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Originally Posted by killerproblem View Post
the motor will take 4s but you will toast the esc,(28A with stock batt, 34A! with a 35c 2200), even stock it's right near its limits on the plane... but 4s is really not needed re-proping will give you mor power or speed as you'd like... like it was stated a 12x6 for lots more thrust, but i seem to like the 11 to 11.5 inch props better something like a 7-8 pitch seems good to me using the 35C batts.

i've used these props with mine:
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/11x8_g_so...p_608_prd1.htm - decent all 'round prop good efficiency

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/11x8_cam_...e_465_prd1.htm - nice sound looks and runs good bit more thrust than above higher amp draw

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/12x6_cam_...e_467_prd1.htm - lots of thrust ...lots... lost quite a bit of top end speed but would climb slowly at 90 deg strait up and 50% throttle

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXZ974&P=0 - not that great efficiency but cheap and work decent...

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXZ977&P=0 - prolly the most raw thurst of any i've tried but ate allmost 45A at WOT on the 35c batts (41A on 20C)

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXVHX1&P=0 - not as efficent as the gsonic or cam props but prolly the best comprimise between speed and thrust ... i use this on mine most of the time...
I have to get some different props.
I tried 9.5x7.5, 10x6, 10x8 and 12x8.
(I have 40A esc in the plane) Battery- 2200mAh 25c. Wheels are 75mm dia
Lets put it this way, first 3 props were mounted only once, last one is still on. But I flown it only twice. It was scary. Beautiful sound, lots of speed and torque. Knife edge at 50-60%. Run time 5 min.
I made few low passes wot, but feel safer pointing it straight up. Most of the flying was at 50%.
Rob
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Old Dec 14, 2010, 10:20 PM
Hmm, I wonder If this will fly
United States, FL, Port Charlotte
Joined Jul 2004
420 Posts
considering the stock prop was a 10.5x9 i'm not suprised that only the 12x8 works for you robusp... smaller would only be useful if you went to 4s or 3-4 blade.
as far as a 3+blade prop, you lose some effency more blades = more losses, you'd need something close to a 9.5x9.5 three blade to get stock performace...
I have NOT tested these Only ran the numbers to check relative motor load, thrust and pitch speed, but by the #'s they should work...

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/scale_3_b...18580_prd1.htm - this is the only 9.5" 3-blade i've found... i used the 4 blade on a p-51 with 500w with no problems...
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/10x7_prop...e_396_prd1.htm - this shoul be a bit of an improvement over the stock for thrust with a small loss in top end.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/10x8_1_3_...e_397_prd1.htm - same as above but should be allmost as fast as the stock prop.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXAA35&P=7 - this 11x7 should be real close to a MAS 12x6 in performance, a little more Amp draw but better ground clearance...
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LX1635&P=7 and this 10x6 4blade might be interesting to try out...
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Old Dec 14, 2010, 10:32 PM
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KP,

Any idea how the stock Bf-109 compares?
10.6 x 7.8 [PKZ4901]

Also any idea if that prop would be too much for the T-28 480, 960Kv motor? Both the Bf-109 and the Extra use 15 sized motors.

PS I know some stuff about ESC's, amp draw, batteries, etc., but I have no clue about electric motor terminology regarding size, performance, etc.
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Old Dec 14, 2010, 10:59 PM
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Pennsylvania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkquat View Post
KP,

Any idea how the stock Bf-109 compares?
10.6 x 7.8 [PKZ4901]

Also any idea if that prop would be too much for the T-28 480, 960Kv motor? Both the Bf-109 and the Extra use 15 sized motors.

PS I know some stuff about ESC's, amp draw, batteries, etc., but I have no clue about electric motor terminology regarding size, performance, etc.
I fly with the BF-109 prop and prefer it, good mix of speed and thrust. It is just a couple ounces shy of the thrust the 12X6 puts out, and not much slower than the stock prop while keeping just about the stock diameter so you don't cut grass on landings and taxiing. Although for a lot of post stall moves, the 12X6 is the best, for fast aerobatics, the stock prop is best. I have used the prop before with my PKZ corsair, it is a bit too much for it, flies plenty fast, but I went through 2 plastic 480 motors that just basically came apart, went back to the stock 3 blade, and the current motor has held up just fine.
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Old Dec 14, 2010, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by alucard0822 View Post
I have used the prop before with my PKZ corsair, it is a bit too much for it, flies plenty fast, but I went through 2 plastic 480 motors that just basically came apart, went back to the stock 3 blade, and the current motor has held up just fine.
Do you mean went through 2 motors or 2 motor mounts? If it was motors, it is my understanding that the Extra motor will mount to the T-28 motor mount and the motor cost is roughly the same. If it was the T-28 motor mount, the mount has been re-designed and is listed on the P-47 partslist along with the Extra motor.
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Old Dec 14, 2010, 11:18 PM
Hmm, I wonder If this will fly
United States, FL, Port Charlotte
Joined Jul 2004
420 Posts
i'll work on it... I moved to temporay quarters today, my main pc is now headed back to fla. it has most of my rc software and electronics programs, so i've got to try to do it with a calc.... I've still got about a month+ before i get back to fla....

the 960kv in the 300 seems to be fine thru Amp draws in the 40's on 3s, and the 11x7 3blade was right around 45Amp in my estamates, so the 10.6 should not be too much of a load... *note* this is based on the testing of MY motor (using 50A SS ESC and turnigy nano 35C 2200mah batts.) not an avg. yours may differ*

I havent tested the t-28 480 class motor(don't own one), and I replaced my P-51BL's after 3 flights then gave it away.
isnt the 109's a 720kv?...

Kv is also, thousand RPM per Volt....
if they use 280,300 370 400 450 480 500 550 600 to describe it they are refering to the size of the can (brushed) motor they intended it to replace.
if they call it a 10, 15, 20 ect it's repersenting the glow(fuel) motor it's intended to replace.
if it uses a 4 number set like a 3248 it is usally refering to it's diamentions 32mm x 48mm these are a little harder to pick the right motor without some test data...
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 12:11 AM
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I found this page:
http://adamone.rchomepage.com/guide5.htm

It pretty much answered my question. There is no simple guide to electric motors.

The Bf-109 is listed as 720kV so I guess it has more torque for the 3 bladed prop. The stock extra is listed as 950Kv, and the T-28 is 960Kv. The ESC is listed as the same 30A for all of them, so some how the math works out. The Extra definitely has more acceleration for the stock and 12x6 prop over the T-28 and the Extra even weighs more.
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkquat View Post
Do you mean went through 2 motors or 2 motor mounts? If it was motors, it is my understanding that the Extra motor will mount to the T-28 motor mount and the motor cost is roughly the same. If it was the T-28 motor mount, the mount has been re-designed and is listed on the P-47 partslist along with the Extra motor.
The motors themselves, mounts held up fine. A magnet came loose on one, then the other just kept getting louder and louder, probable bearing failure, and got some play in the shaft that allowed the coils to contact the magnets. The first lasted about 50 or more flights on the stock prop without problems, then another 50 on the 3 blade, figured the magnet separating had nothing to do with the prop. The second motor lasted about 30 flights on the BF-109 3 blade, the 3rd motor, in it now is smooth and quiet after 100+ flights on the stock 3 blade. Horizon replaced both faulty no questions asked. The BF-109 motor is rated at a lower KV, but uses the same plastic structure as the 480 motors, don't own one, but have heard a ton of reports of the motors cracking and coming apart. The Extra300 motor is metal, and a lot stronger, most of the props from 10X9 to 12X6 including the stock prop and BF-109 3 blade are right around 30A draw, with a couple peaking a bit above 30A. I have at least 150 flights on the stock setup with 30A speed control and no issues, but if I were to change anything, it would be a larger speed control. Thats the issue, the speed control can exceed it's rating in static tests, but draws fewer amps in the air when there is less resistance on the prop. Speed controls are not the best thing to push, not that big of a deal if you are running a reciever pack or separate BEC, but if the speed control has an internal BEC to feed the reciever, and it fries, you can basically lose all control of the model, and it will crash, a motor failure or some speed control failures still alow a dead stick landing, a servo or control surface issue can leave you with enough control to land, or at least crash lighter.
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 09:45 AM
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TY for the info. I am surprised they went with the 30A ESC for the Extra and a few other planes using the 2200mAh 25C batteries. At first I had heard the Extra had a different / better ESC than the T-28 and similar planes. They add an SB in the description for the Extra but the part numbers are the same for all. Gotta love marketing.
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 03:37 PM
Hmm, I wonder If this will fly
United States, FL, Port Charlotte
Joined Jul 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkquat View Post
I found this page:
http://adamone.rchomepage.com/guide5.htm

It pretty much answered my question. There is no simple guide to electric motors.

The Bf-109 is listed as 720kV so I guess it has more torque for the 3 bladed prop. The stock extra is listed as 950Kv, and the T-28 is 960Kv. The ESC is listed as the same 30A for all of them, so some how the math works out. The Extra definitely has more acceleration for the stock and 12x6 prop over the T-28 and the Extra even weighs more.
aye but at least in the extra's case the stock setup is really too mutch for the esc... stock was 33A WOT on a 30A ESC... and do note many folks have had proplems with e-flights 30A ESC (same one in the extra), heck i've burned them out (i've owned 3 now) with as little as 27A constant draw...

the 720kv will turn at a lower RPM for a given voltage than the 950kv in the extra, since they are the same "class" motors (15 size)... in usefull terms the 720 is more for larger or multi blade props, on the same voltage, or higher voltage with the same or smaller props...assuming they are built the same outherwise, i do not own one and i've never seen one in person.
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 05:00 PM
as much as I can
beenflying's Avatar
NZ
Joined Jan 2010
4,779 Posts
I've read that the PZ BF-109 3 bladed prop works well:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...2#post16305127

Also quite a few are very happy with the APC 12x6e prop:
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...tric-Propeller

Edit: Oops, sorry, I missed this last page.
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 05:23 PM
FLY FREE
Rcflying boy's Avatar
chicago
Joined Jul 2008
151 Posts
a bunch of my flying vids of my Extra 300
Parkzone Extra 300 (5 min 44 sec)

Patric Hruswicki Freestyle @ JR IMAC (6 min 1 sec)

patrick_free2.mp4 (3 min 15 sec)



i love my extra. Awesome plane, has plenty of power. IMAC freestyle-legal (hahha) as you can see from the videos.

I dont see all the fuss for the malformed wings. they fly the same with the wings flipped. No problem.

Happy landings,
Patric
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 06:42 PM
Hmm, I wonder If this will fly
United States, FL, Port Charlotte
Joined Jul 2004
420 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rcflying boy View Post
i love my extra. Awesome plane, has plenty of power. IMAC freestyle-legal (hahha) as you can see from the videos.

I dont see all the fuss for the malformed wings. they fly the same with the wings flipped. No problem.

Happy landings,
Patric
aye I see no differance wings up or down. she flys right about like i expected out of the box, with a esc and prop change she flew exactly like i expected...
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 07:00 PM
as much as I can
beenflying's Avatar
NZ
Joined Jan 2010
4,779 Posts
Nice flying, Patric. Can you tell me some more about your setup (CG, Prop size, any mods)? Thanks.

Cheers
David
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