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Old Sep 22, 2010, 08:46 AM
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I haven't looked at this thread in a while, but it has become more active. I'm happy to see that.

I love my EXTRA. I moved up from the TROJAN. Agree with the assessment that you need to be very comfortable with something like the TROJAN before flying this plane. I typically warm up with my TROJAN, and try to perfect most new maneuvers and techniques on that plane before trying them with the EXTRA. Works great for me. On to rolling circles. This will take a while.

I'd love to know the results if anyone gets an accurate straight and level WOT speed on the plane.
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Old Sep 23, 2010, 04:49 PM
Hmm, I wonder If this will fly
United States, FL, Port Charlotte
Joined Jul 2004
420 Posts
finnally got a chance to put my 300 in the air today, she flew great, fast on command, decent vertical and quick snappy responce to input, the stall is abrupt but manageable and even power off she handles fine.

the only changes to mine from stock were 2.5" main wheels (low bounce rubber) and a 1" hard rubber tailwheel. she took off from about 2" grass, allthough landing on that was like catching the arrestor cable on a carrier...

she flew level at about 1/2 throttle and was fairly nice throughout the power range.
power off glide was between -8 and -10 deg for full control, 1/8 throttle and -1 to -3 for a decent scale like landing (minus the thick grass)...

can't see what peeps are complain' about. for this price bracket she's a great bird...
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Old Sep 24, 2010, 07:54 AM
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895 Posts
Went through mine and basically maxed out the throws, and it spins and harriers much better. The elevator was on the 2nd shortest hole at the servo, ailerons were on the 2nd inner hole at the servo, moving all the rods to the furthest servo hole, and second shortest hole on the surface control horns seemed to work best, when in the shortest hole on the horns, the servos are just a hair bit weak, gotta flex the foam a lot to make the hinge move easier like the other Z-foamies, then run tape over the cracked foam in the hinge to reinforce it. I might go through and re-hinge the ailerons (rdder and elevator move pretty well as is) to free them up, and make them move a bit faster, it has worked well with other p-zone foamies, makes response a lot quicker and more consistent, and stops the annoying servo humm when they are holding an aileron up or down. With the full throws it will do very nice spins, and recovers pretty quick, about 20'-50'. Being the plane has such great vertical with the 12X6e prop, I like to enter a stall from a hover, tumble or hammerhead at about 300' up, perform the spin, recover at about 150' with an immediate pull to vertical, and do fast rolls or snaps while heading back up to spin again. You can get a lot of spins and verticals without going too far laterally, and it's really neat to see spin after spin conducted basically in a column with a brief torque roll or tumble at the top.
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Old Sep 25, 2010, 11:11 AM
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Aerobatics - Compare Notes

I was flying my EXTRA 300 this morning. A good start to the weekend! As I become more accustomed to the plane I have been trying new maneuvers. I am curious what some of you are seeing and want to compare notes.

1. I have my plane on low rates and snap rolls seem pretty quick and violent (not a bad thing!). However, I would like a little faster aileron roll rate on vertical uplines with full stick deflection. Does increasing aileron throw a little significantly alter snap roll rate? I want to be able to stop them precisely and don't want it spinning too fast. I also don't want to be switching a dual rate switch in flight. IMAC maneuvers, not 3D, are desired.

2. The negative P-Factor effects don't seem as pronounced in this plane as, say, the TROJAN. It seems like there is significantly less right/down thrust built in. I'm finding very little left rudder is required to compensate during outside loops. Are others seeing the same thing? I'll try an inside/outside horizontal 8 next to play a little more.

3. I tried a positive snap roll on a vertical upline. How much elevator are others using to initiate the snap? Are you completely unloading the snap once initiated or not? It seems if I lead out of the snap with the rudder the vertical alignment in that plane isn't bad. I am still working on what is best for pitch axis alignment and wonder what others are doing.

4. Landing. It seems the less I do the better it goes. I just fly it down close to the ground at 1/4 throttle, then close it. If I don't do much and keep it level I get nice wheel landings. If I give just a nudge of up it flares nicely, floats a while on ground effect and does a pretty 3-point touchdown.
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Old Sep 25, 2010, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by SubManEric View Post
I was flying my EXTRA 300 this morning. A good start to the weekend! As I become more accustomed to the plane I have been trying new maneuvers. I am curious what some of you are seeing and want to compare notes.

1. I have my plane on low rates and snap rolls seem pretty quick and violent (not a bad thing!). However, I would like a little faster aileron roll rate on vertical uplines with full stick deflection. Does increasing aileron throw a little significantly alter snap roll rate? I want to be able to stop them precisely and don't want it spinning too fast. I also don't want to be switching a dual rate switch in flight. IMAC maneuvers, not 3D, are desired.

2. The negative P-Factor effects don't seem as pronounced in this plane as, say, the TROJAN. It seems like there is significantly less right/down thrust built in. I'm finding very little left rudder is required to compensate during outside loops. Are others seeing the same thing? I'll try an inside/outside horizontal 8 next to play a little more.

3. I tried a positive snap roll on a vertical upline. How much elevator are others using to initiate the snap? Are you completely unloading the snap once initiated or not? It seems if I lead out of the snap with the rudder the vertical alignment in that plane isn't bad. I am still working on what is best for pitch axis alignment and wonder what others are doing.

4. Landing. It seems the less I do the better it goes. I just fly it down close to the ground at 1/4 throttle, then close it. If I don't do much and keep it level I get nice wheel landings. If I give just a nudge of up it flares nicely, floats a while on ground effect and does a pretty 3-point touchdown.
It definitely snaps fast, and even with the low out of the box rates it sheds a lot of airspeed with inputs, the issue with rates is that the plane can fly over such a large speed envelope that you need either big throws and a lot of expo, or to set dual rates and be quick on the switch between manuvers. I did a combination of both, the rates are about as high as they go with a fair ammount of expo for 3d type stuff, spins, stalls, hovers and harriers, then "low rates" are set at 40%E, 60%A, 80%R with 40% expo on all 3. This gives me about all the travel I need on low rates for precision aerobatics at moderate to high speed, landings, takeoffs, basically an IMAC setup, on high rates I can do most slow speed manuvers the plane is capable of, I only flip the switch once up and flying when I want to do something slow, most all other manuvers are done with small stick movements on low rate at higher speeds, as the plane slows, I just move the sticks further, if you push the sticks too far, and too fast the plane loses speed very quickly, and the prop torque will dump it over if you are not gentle at these settings, however there is enough expo that being gentle on the sticks gives plenty of precise control. With low rates the roll rate is very fast, at high rates it is nuts, compared to the "out of the box" settings, especially low rates it is much much faster, although they do stop pretty fast if you let go of the stick.

There is hardly any mount offset (if any at all), it means you have to compensate for torque quite a bit, especially at slow speeds, but don't have to compensate for an angled mount during manuvers, a steady throttle and steady speed will track through loops pretty well, but you have to be on top of things, especially during takeoffs, and have to be gentle with increasing or decreasing throttle too quickly.

To snap roll horizontally, say clockwise, I bump the right stick down a hair to bring the nose up, then push it right to about 3:00 to initialte the roll, and as it starts to move, slide it down to about 4:00 while pushing right rudder. This works horizontally or vertically, although veritcally I don't push as much rudder or elevator being the speed tends to be lower and there is more prop wash, the controls move faster, and it takes a lot less to snap out into a spin or tumble, which can be fun if intended, I usually let off elevator first as I am about 1/2 way to centering aileron and rudder, then ease on throttle as I center aileron first and then line it up with rudder, adding a little elevator if needed to keep the recovery in line.

Landings for me also tend to be uneventful, I am running 2.5" foam wheels on the mains and a 1.45" sport wheel on the tail for landing on grass, the much larger tail wheel helps keep the rudder from getting dinged if I have to land unexpectedly during a low altitude harrier(hey, I'm still learning) If I am flying with the battery pushed all the way forward(mostly moderate to full speed aerobatics 2.75"CG), landing is a little trickier being there is little weight on the tail, I bring it in at about 1/4 throttle, rolling off the throttle as I gradually pull up elevator and settle the plane into a nice landing, flip high rates still with full up elevator, and ease on the throttle to taxi back with the elevator holding the tail down. If I set the battery back a little, and balance cg to 3" for hovers, harriers and spins, then landing is a bit easier if done as outlined above, but sometimes I come in slower with a bit more throttle and some aileron to balance out torque and at a higher angle, start to drag the tail, ease off up elevator a bit as I lower the throttle, and basically plop the mains down with only a couple feet of roll.
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Old Sep 26, 2010, 05:57 AM
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Thanks for your observations.

You should knw that a good technique for landing full scale taildraggers on a rough field is to touch the tailwheel down first. Not a harrier, just a few degrees up from when it sits on the ground. Almost never bounces that way.
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Old Sep 26, 2010, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by SubManEric View Post
Thanks for your observations.

You should knw that a good technique for landing full scale taildraggers on a rough field is to touch the tailwheel down first. Not a harrier, just a few degrees up from when it sits on the ground. Almost never bounces that way.
I dont really have a problem with bouncing, it has been really dry here all summer, and there are dry dead spots in the grass, some patches of bare dirt where the grass has shrunk apart, and some small patches of thick grass, basically making the field very rough and with a lot of small dirt patches a couple inches around, landings stick every time, but it takes a lot of push down on the tail to keep the mains from getting stuck in a hole, and nosing over the plane. Earlier in the year, I could takeoff and land on the same field with the stock 1.75" wheels on my corsair, even a 2 point landing with the tailwheel settling just after toucch down went fine, but with the condition of the field, and despite larger wheels on both planes, I have to set them down in a near perfect 3 point, or tailwheel first attitude, pull full up elevator and increase throttle to keep enough speed to bouce over the pits, and even then occasionally a wheel gets stuck and jolts the plane to the side, or starts to nose it over, the Extra having taller gear and having to come in faster makes it a little more difficult than the corsair. Landing on pavement is a luxury here, with about 100' of parking lot available as long as nobody is parked there, roller skating or playing a game in it.
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Old Sep 26, 2010, 04:32 PM
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Even still - sounds like you're having good fun! Beats not flying, or worse, working!
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Old Oct 02, 2010, 12:12 AM
Play tetris with my english
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Puerto Rico, San Juan
Joined May 2008
2,200 Posts
hello guys. it have being like 2 years out my planes. yes i do fly like 1 or 2 every couple of month. bust i was with my helis.. I ordered mine at Advantage hobby.com $175 after 5off100 cupon , free shipping and free battery. hope to get it soon.

latly i start to organize my hangar get rip of thos old planes ( i am the kind of person that i just keep every single broken part after a crash) fo suposly used later to fix something else. jaja so i get rip of all thos old parts clean my hangar from crap parts. and trash a few old models.

i was looking into a YAK54 i was in debate between the E300 and tha YAK54XL from parkflyers.com and the winer was PZ E300 since i have being a PZ customer for a long time and replacement can be found almost in walgreens.

OK guys I am not a real Pilot. just RC. Since a KID i was in CAP (Civil Air Patrol) Air force Cadets, i dont went thru the airforce because i want to be a fighter pilot but my limitation with glasses wont let me. just a comercial pilot. but I know a lot of plane aerodinamics.

this is what ive look thru nd found. at first when nobody notice the "airfoil" "issue" no1 talks bad about the E300 then some noob pilots jumping from trainers planes can not handle this and try to blame the plane. if you notice almost every single person that is complaining about this are a bunch of kids with very little experience. ( i said almost not everybody). but some older guys are following those kids wrong ideas.

in precision sharp maneuver yes is veri important the aerodinamics. AND you know what....... the flat tip of the wing IS NOT FLAT... are you listen to me. is NOT flat. (the bottom of a superCub wing HZ that is a real flat airfoil? lets make a comparation. apply rudder left on the SuperCub you will notice that will roll to to left a little,, why? airfoil on wing tp !! when you are ruddering left the right wing have more airflow on tip than on root and the left side wing have less airflow so when ruddering the most airflow is at the tip of the right wing. that makes the plane roll. in the case of the SuperCub that dont have ailerons the wing have a lot of diedhral to counter react that.

now for E300 ai highspeed the effect on the airflow will be more. and lot of airfoil on tips will make the plane unstable when using rudder for aerobatics.
and airfoil is combined with the position of attack on the wing and thrust angle of prop. so this is a fast aerobatic plane not a slow flyer. people are complaining about too much pitch at high speed. (thanks god with dont have airfoil jajaja) imagine the pitch with more curve on top wow you will not need elevators... also that with help on inverted flights. for what was made this plane. it will be very unstable on KnifeEdge with lot of curve on tips too because the airfoil will try to pull (level) the wings when aplying rudder.

i look one of this E300 before ordering at my LHS and looks nice the wing looks perfect yes it cen be see a liitle part flat on the back of the tip bit in front still have some curve. i dont see any issue at all.
in fact i campare my other planes when i get back from my LHS and you know wat my GWS corsair also have more airfoil in lower part of the tip. my Focus 400 have a decrising airfoil on tip too. the only one that have full airfoil in all wing is my SuperCub.

I will post some picture so you will see my other wings stock configuration.
i can wait to my E300 arrive. im hooked.
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Old Oct 02, 2010, 01:46 AM
Play tetris with my english
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Joined May 2008
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now you tell me !!! should i reverse my corsair WINGS hahaha !!!





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Old Oct 02, 2010, 02:23 AM
Play tetris with my english
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Puerto Rico, San Juan
Joined May 2008
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hey guys i will order some extra props. when u talk about 12x6 and 12x7 ur talking SlowFlyer or Sport propeller.

I have a 6EXAP and a 7c 2.4 both futaba. i just love the quality over spektrum.

i will start with the 6exap since a have few RX around and my 2 FASST rx are on my helis.
i will use flaperons with the dial so i think for flaps work better at low speed i will need a 12x?

when i buy a extra FASST rx i will setup the A-Break that combine like 50% flaps with 10 or 15% elevator for landing.

I also love the fact that the 7c radio have the ability to change the trainer swith to a snap swith and will combine all 3 chanell as a Pushbutton move. i want to try that.
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Old Oct 02, 2010, 10:09 AM
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Higher Rates

After getting comfortable with the low rates ( ail 12mm, elev 10mm, rdr 28mm) today I shifted to high rates (ail 15mm, elev 13mm, rdr 35mm). The high rates are really factory set pushrod locations on the servos, outer holes on the control surfaces and 100% ATV. Just like in the manual.

I fly without expo and did not feel the plane was too sensitive or twitchy on the higher rates. The roll rate is crisper and it is easier to nail hammerheads. If I don't unload snap rolls during loops the plane slows down noticeably more duue to increased elevator and rudder throw. It doesn't look all that much different, but in the air it is noticeable.

I was not able to get a good snap roll on a vertical upline on low rates. Different story on high rates. However, I found it necessary to limit the up elevator leading in and to immediately unload the snap all the way - neutral elevator. Then it was vicious fast and ended near vertical.

Landing was really no different, either. No big change in sensitivity around neutral during slow flight.

Did a hammerhead/transition to outside spin for 4 rotations. Very quick spin rate that stopped on a dime. My pullouts were aggressive and I added power just prior to pulling. No high speed stall noted.

Tried one vertical downline followed by an inverted recovery. Felt just the same as upright. Outside loops (inverted to inverted) are nice, too.

Also tried a two snap avalanche with a twist. Inside snap to the left followed by an outside snap to the right. Really need to unload the snap on the first one to have enough speed for the second, but all in all pretty neat to try.

Last new maneuver I tried was a half cuban, one turn outside snap on the downline, half roll upright in the opposite direction. I backed off the throttle before the snap and it didn't slow down too much - held the line fine.

What a fun plane to really learn aerobatics with! Wind was up so I got a lot of good practice using the rudder for wind corrections. Landing this puppy in a stiff breeze is almost no more difficult than in still air, and way easier than trying to land my TROJAN in a breeze.
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Old Oct 02, 2010, 10:25 AM
Jimmy
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United States, NJ, Highland Lakes
Joined Oct 2008
755 Posts
Hi all dose any have a good touch up color. I tried Homer D but there machine will not make that color of paint.

Good point DAX, I have been flying the heck out of mine and I love it.
I didn't think I would like it over my warbirds. But it goes to the feild more than any.
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Old Oct 02, 2010, 12:19 PM
Flying Full Size & Fun Size :)
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United States, CA, Calabasas
Joined Apr 2010
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Originally Posted by Jimmy1159 View Post
Hi all dose any have a good touch up color. I tried Homer D but there machine will not make that color of paint.
Doubt this is what you're looking for, but I have an orange Sharpie - perfect match for the 300's color. And $2.
-J
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Old Oct 02, 2010, 06:51 PM
Up Up and Away!
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Joined May 2008
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also another note:

if anybody has the micro parkzone sukhoi it also has the upside down wing foil if you look closely
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