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Old Apr 11, 2011, 05:04 PM
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That would also mean that when flying, it is best to keep it level on the roll axis and direct it only with yaw & pitch. Banked turns should be left to the expert pilots..
Can somone explain how you would achieve a banked turn in an aircraft that has no elevator control? Or if indeed there is any benefit of a banked turn with an nVader.

As i understand it for a left turn you would incline to the left and pull back on the elevator to bring the nose 'up' in the conventional way. Doing so with the unique design of the nVader would actually make you fly backward and to the left. as the elevator stick is acutally more of a pure forwards backwards control as the aircraft gyros should keep its body level at all times anyway.


On a side note my nvader is now assembeld as per the manual and awaiting a calm day to properly test it. Only using one 4S 5400mah lipo for now as they're expensive here.
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Old Apr 11, 2011, 05:35 PM
Gress Aero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krylon View Post
Can somone explain how you would achieve a banked turn in an aircraft that has no elevator control? Or if indeed there is any benefit of a banked turn with an nVader.

As i understand it for a left turn you would incline to the left and pull back on the elevator to bring the nose 'up' in the conventional way. Doing so with the unique design of the nVader would actually make you fly backward and to the left. as the elevator stick is acutally more of a pure forwards backwards control as the aircraft gyros should keep its body level at all times anyway.


On a side note my nvader is now assembeld as per the manual and awaiting a calm day to properly test it. Only using one 4S 5400mah lipo for now as they're expensive here.
I use roll and yaw in turns, with elevator still kept forward - but maybe not as much as in level flight.

It is true, if you pull back past neutral on elevator you will go backwards.

Gary
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Old Apr 19, 2011, 07:10 AM
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nVader & Props

Hello,

During my trip to Brittany, I stopped by each Rc model store I could find along the way... And I managed, over 8 of them (Master Airscrew is not easy to find here...), to find enough propellers to put together a few different sets.

We had beautiful weather all last week in Paris, so after the Vario-Props, I resumed testing of propellers, fixed pitch this time.

I tested:
Master Airscrew 14x7
Master Airscrew 12x6
Pseudo Master Airscrew 13x7, a 14x7 home cut to 13".

All were compared to to the stock Master Airscrew 13x8.

I must stress that apart from hard numbers on % gaz, etc... The conclusions are purely subjective, based on my feelings trying to adjust and pilot the nVader 600 fitted with the different props.

Conclusions:
- As coud be expected, the stock 13x8 is a good compromise (Gary did his home work well ...).
- At low TOW, say only one LiPo pack and no payload, I found the 12x6 to perform better.
- The 14x7 can be an alternative and works, very stable, but reactions are a bit more sluggish than with the 13x8. A question of preference on piloting style...
- The pseudo 13x7 shows a good trend and confort me in the opinion that a true 13x7 could be the ideal prop. Unfortunately I found none in right & left versions...

So I guess I will stick with the 13x8 and only switch to 12x6 whenever flying very light.

Details of the study in the attached document.

Cheers.
Marcel.
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Old Apr 19, 2011, 07:59 AM
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Very Interesting Study Marcel, Thank you very much.

I really would like to repeat your study using other props to see how they compare to the Master Airscrew. At present, I am using APC 15x10 mass weight is 162g.
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Old Apr 19, 2011, 08:27 AM
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Marcel, I have a question about your report, is (grs) Grams? If so, I don't understand the weight of the props used.
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Old Apr 19, 2011, 08:35 AM
Gress Aero
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Marcel, excellent data and analysis. Thank you for this.

Gary

P.S. I have an almost-completed nVader propeller/motor/battery matching and performance chart which I'll be posting soon.
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Old Apr 19, 2011, 11:27 AM
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All Wii Motion Plus are not created equally! I have three WM+ purchased from the same vendor and each one has it own Characteristics and behavior. One seems to not like morning temperatures even though the temperature here never drops below 50 degrees. I have repeatedly used this WP+ during midday and it functions extremely well, but it is very over sensitive in the morning hours. Today, I first went to park with this gyro installed and I was not able to fly so I returned home, replaced the Gyro with the secondary unit and return to the park without any adjustments to the PID setting. I really love this module design because it makes it very easy to replace components.

So when I have the resources, I will order about ten more WM+ and sort them by performance. Maybe I will build a test stand so that I can control the test environment.

nVader600 MultiWii-Bicopter - Park testing 04/19 (3 min 26 sec)


P.S. I need to shift the batteries forward just a little, she is a little tail heavy.
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Old Apr 19, 2011, 11:37 AM
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France
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Originally Posted by reverendrichie View Post
Marcel, I have a question about your report, is (grs) Grams? If so, I don't understand the weight of the props used.
Hello,

I guess you mean in the first table... So yes, grs stands for grammes.

The first column, "Prop. Weight", is the total weight of the propeller, hub plus the 3 blades.

The second column is the weight of an individual blade... I neglected the weight of the hub, which is around 2 to 3 grs and just divided the prop weight by 3... Good enough to get an idea of the moment of inertia with a very approximate formula anyway...

I hope it is clear..

Cheers.
Marcel.
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Old Apr 19, 2011, 11:41 AM
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Thank you Marcel.
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Old Apr 19, 2011, 01:38 PM
Gress Aero
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Here's the nVader motor/propeller selection & performance prediction chart I was referring to, meant for going to substantially larger TOWs.

The blocks in blue are the configurations that have already been tested, but I recommend skipping the 500 motor (it gets hot just carrying two 6S 5000 batteries) and going straight to the 400. Motor mounting holes are different for this motor.

The larger eVader model (~ 15 lb.) uses motors similar to the ones at the bottom of the table and has a distance between prop centers of 30 in, so I see no reason why they can't be used on a large-payload nVader. Landing gear, spar, motor mounts and servos will have to be beefed up, though.

Gary
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Old Apr 19, 2011, 01:41 PM
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nVader & Crashes...

Hello,

I got some direct e-mails from, I guess, interested parties asking me how rugged and sturdy is really the nVader... Probably from some left thumb handicapped pilot like me!!! tired of rebuilding their helis..

I must say pretty damn solid!! Over the last 3 months, through my learning curve and various tests from servos to props via Helicommand, my nVader did suffer an incredible number of crashes, from minor to pretty severe . I can't count, but certainly several dozens of bad one.

So far, I had to replace:
- 3 props ( and beleive it or not always the left one...)
- 1 Servo,mounting lug broken...
- 1 ball link
- The canopy took some beating but is still holding with scotch tape!

And that's it...

Usually after a bad crash, a few minutes were enough to straighten the servos, check the geometry and get back in the air.

I found the weakest part was the servos. The way they are attached just by one side with two screws and a wrap is certainly light and smart, but leaves them very exposed. Even if nothing breaks, they have a tendancy to easily shift a bit and a few degrees ruins the geometry/symetrie of the nVader.

So I finally decided to do some more robust mounts: Total weight 30gr per mount, not too bad. The servos are attached in a more conventional way and well protected in case of crashes. Too, they can't shift, maintening the original setup. Pictures attached.

That has been tested already via a couple of crashes which occured during filming sessions... Clip at that link:
http://www.tournereau.com/modelisme/...s/Crashes.html

Cheers.
Marcel.
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Old Apr 19, 2011, 01:42 PM
Gress Aero
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Originally Posted by reverendrichie View Post
[B] .... P.S. I need to shift the batteries forward just a little, she is a little tail heavy.
Nice video, RR. If you like I have an extra horizontal stab and mounting fittings I can send you.

Gary
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Old Apr 19, 2011, 01:44 PM
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Marcel, I really like your beefed up servo mounts.
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Old Apr 19, 2011, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryGress_1 View Post
Nice video, RR. If you like I have an extra horizontal stab and mounting fittings I can send you.

Gary
Thank you Gary, what is the weight please?
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Old Apr 19, 2011, 01:48 PM
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BTW, I moved the batteries forward and will test again in the morning. As stated, I was having problems with one of the gyros and early morning testing.
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