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Old Sep 30, 2001, 04:51 PM
2014 EDF JET JAM We be Jamming
Kevin Cox's Avatar
St. Louis Intl, Missouri, United States
Joined Jan 1997
6,774 Posts
Tally Ho... X-32A above the hard deck!

After stopping by an R/C giant scale Aero Tow I headed out to the flying field with the X-32 and F-15. I was happy to see Jeff there since he is a fellow E-flier and Ezone member. Long story short, the X-32A made about a 2 minute test hop The fin area had to be the problem since the actual flight showed that it is nose heavy and still had way too much elevon deflection in the roll axis. I will adjust these and this will put the C.G. and control throws back to what they were at attempt #01.

It was hard to gauge its speed since I was a bit busy with the sticks. The roll rate was a blur and I ended the flight with a one bounce landing. So this "scruffy" little jet will soon get a face lift

No video but as Jeff pointed out that's probably why it flew this time
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Old Sep 30, 2001, 04:56 PM
EDF Head
Haldor's Avatar
Stavanger, Norway
Joined Feb 2000
7,999 Posts
Finally!

3 is a charm Kevin!

Happy flying.
Haldor
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Old Sep 30, 2001, 05:07 PM
Registered User
Springfield MO US
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Way to go Kevin, blazin the trails again.

Ken
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Old Sep 30, 2001, 05:10 PM
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Doc Watson's Avatar
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Rock and roll Kevin.........

soon be my turn to crash and burn.....

Doc
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Old Sep 30, 2001, 09:07 PM
Scott Black, Montreal
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montreal quebec Canada
Joined Sep 1999
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Sorry Kevin, I'm confused (not unusual). I know we discussed it before but I forget the details.

You said you had too much elevon deflection in the roll axis. You mean you needed too much deflection to obtain a given roll rate or you had way more deflection than you needed? I assume it was the second one?

If so, why do you think that this was due to the fin area? Do you think that adverse yaw and the resulting rolling moment was cancelling your roll input? So moving the cg forward reduced the yaw and hence fixed it? I am curious as to your reasoning but glad that you sorted it out.

I had the Sabre up today for 3 flights of 5 min each. I am now flying a much more vertical profile, like what you did with your Hornet at MidAm, now that I have more power and more time on it. Although with 600 watts the size of the maneuvers is a bit bigger

I have started to figure out how to land it too! It only took one trip into the bean patch to teach me a lesson

So, more details please.

cheers
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Old Sep 30, 2001, 09:33 PM
steve neill
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It's the one's that make you work harder that are the best in the end. Way to go Kevin!!!!
Steve
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Old Sep 30, 2001, 11:07 PM
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Corvallis, OR
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Congrats, Kev...you're getting there.

More power to you!

Ron
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Old Oct 01, 2001, 07:45 AM
2014 EDF JET JAM We be Jamming
Kevin Cox's Avatar
St. Louis Intl, Missouri, United States
Joined Jan 1997
6,774 Posts
Scott,
The first attempt ended in a barrel roll while still on the bungee, as described by on lookers, despite me compensating (full opposite roll). I picked three items to change for the next attempt; C.G., increased roll deflection, and increased fin area. I also moved the bungee hook more forward since it was also suspect but a unpowered and uncontrolled delta wing foamie was used to test the location and it had no problem.

The next attempt the model started to slow roll to the left and just touched the stick and it went to the right hard. I tried to correct this and went to far and it was now banked to the left again and I finally overcontrolled it into the ground. So I went from having no roll control on attempt 01 to way too much on attempt 02. BTW, it still was on the bungee

Flight 03:
The roll control deflection was lowered by 25%. The model started off the same way with me almost over controlling it into the ground when I elected to ride it out until it was clear of the bungee. The second turn of the flight required all the pitch control I had and this put me well behind the pits (no fly zone) with the club's VP standing next to me. This showed me that it was nose heavy big time and that my original C.G. location was probably correct. Next I did a roll and it was very axial but very very fast and not scale like by any means. Too much deflection in the roll. During the landing approach I reduced power and no pitch change was noted so the thrust line is OK and C.G. is again believed to be too far forward.

So this is what I think. The fin area, or lack of it, caused an "adverse yaw and the resulting rolling moment was cancelling your roll input." The roll deflection will be returned to its original setting (in increments) and the same holds true for the CG location. So the only thing that will remain changed is the increased fin area.


It is good to hear that your F-86 is back in operation. You are really stuffing that airframe with watts Is this the final upgrade? Also how many "scale like" vertical rolls can you do? I think this might be a better way to report our vertical performance.
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Old Oct 01, 2001, 08:04 AM
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Do I recall that the original fin size was guessed? how does the larger fin size compare to the real thing?

Also got kinda worried about your CG moves, would have been a complete rebuild for me if its wrong (ouch).

Are you now painting? if so whats the scheme, I want to do a RAF GR7 style, or perhaps an F22 varient? it looks better than the Boeing prototype.

Doc
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Old Oct 01, 2001, 12:25 PM
2014 EDF JET JAM We be Jamming
Kevin Cox's Avatar
St. Louis Intl, Missouri, United States
Joined Jan 1997
6,774 Posts
Thanks guys for the words of encouragement.

Doc,

The fin area was guessed based on the images found on Boeing's website. When they released the 3 views I increased them slightly but they always looked small to me when compared to the certain views of the full scale X-32. Tomorrow I will measure the percent of fin area to the wing area and send it to you. As for color scheme it will be in the Boeing scale (gray) but I must admitt I was considering the two tone F-16 type camo of the early drawings complete with wing weapon pylons. Have you seen it on the Eidos PC flight sim JSF (non VTOL)? This is sorta jumping the gun since I have one more test hop to make before I put a finish on her.
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Old Oct 01, 2001, 12:50 PM
Electriaddict
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Melville Saskatchewan Canada
Joined Mar 2001
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which design do you think will win? I know politics will probably play a big role ...................but I personally like the boeing design the lockheed one looks too complicated
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Old Oct 01, 2001, 11:03 PM
EDF Head
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Stavanger, Norway
Joined Feb 2000
7,999 Posts
Kevin - could your lack of fin area in fact be blanked out fins?
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Old Oct 02, 2001, 09:08 AM
2014 EDF JET JAM We be Jamming
Kevin Cox's Avatar
St. Louis Intl, Missouri, United States
Joined Jan 1997
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Haldor,

I thought about this but since it was still on the bungee at low AoA, I ruled it out.
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Old Oct 02, 2001, 04:35 PM
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Cheers Kevin.........

I havent got to the fins yet, I've drawn them and will work out the area vs wing and post it.

I bet you had a big grin after flight #3.

On the paint scheme.....I think I will go for the 'balsa' look untill the testing is over, but then again a coat of grey primer 'just to seal the wood' might be the way to go.

(for grey primer read sanded balsa,50/50 dope thinners,sand,50/50, sand, tissue,sand,tissue,sand,sealer,sand,paint.......ph ewwww)

Doc
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Old Oct 03, 2001, 09:40 PM
Serenity Now!
jbrundt's Avatar
O'Fallon, MO, USA
Joined Jan 2001
1,323 Posts
X-32 flight

Kevin's flight was awesome...I was there. To say it was a bit sensitive on the ailerons is an understatement. The plane did climb very nicely and flew with authority-no signs of instability at all. The turns were wide (due to lack of sufficient elevator travel) but it looked very scale in the air. When Kevin did that roll if you blinked you missed it.

Once Kev gets the proper mixing ratios dialed in this will be one nice flying EDF (despite the butt ugly looks of the real plane it's modeled after ). It would have been nice to see a few more circuits around the field but I know Kevin had his hands full. He made it look quite easy.

Congrats again Kevin for an outstanding first flight. I can't wait to see it when you can really tear up the sky with her.

Jeff

P.S. as for speed I would say Kevin's X-32 was flying about as fast as my TJ.
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