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Old Jan 15, 2013, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Edubarca View Post
snap CAD plans are always very cold and inhuman and not very accurate simply because they are NOT the originals.
I know what you mean, but since I use CAD a lot at work, that doesn't bother me. It lets me escape my bad lettering. As to how accurate they are, that depends on how carefully they're prepared, and whether they preserve the asymmetry of the originals, assuming they were drawn by hand. Sometimes the originals are really bad. Check out the wing from the drawing for the Flying Aces Twin Pusher . Note that the leading and trailing edges on either side of the break lines are not parallel. The builder has to decide which picture is right. I have to admit that this design is a pretty good flier, however, at least the way I decided to fudge the drawing.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 10:24 PM
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As an Engineering Technician I work with CAD progrms and Scanned plans on a daily basis. While I admire the work of a manual drafter (which I used to be as well) I also know that very few scanners create scans that are not distorted in some way or another. Therefore I look for a plan that is readable and not overly fuzzy. I repect that the original plan is the best, but I also realize that there are very few "original" plans still out there. I am sure the vast majority of "electronic" scanned plans were probably made form a copy of the original to begin with.

George
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Old_Pilot View Post
Now I've got the sillies....

So I'm wondering if someone designed and built a micro-towline to be hauled into the sky using a dragonfly.......much better power to weight ratio, not to mention wingspan
Wondering if this applies to flies also? "Action-reaction force pairs make it possible for birds to fly."
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 10:42 PM
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Flies have gyros, the little white thing just ahead of their wing root. Sperry studied them around the start of WW II. they vibrate and the fly cannot fly if they are removed, I know as I have done it.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:51 AM
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Fifteen Minute Championship Tractor
This is from Chapter 33 ofthe book 'Complete Model Aircraft Manual' by Edwin T. Hamilton 1938 Dodd Mead & Co. This is not a full-size plan, just a copy of the original text pages and drawings. Span is 30 inches. Meant for indoor flying.

1932 Monocoupe 64 inches From Modern Mechanix and Inventions, as seen in Jul/Aug 1988 FAC News. Sorry about the print quality, but there's a lot to look at here. Another plan that's NOT full size.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 07:50 AM
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I agree, Edubarca. I'm not interested in images of CAD plans unless there's no magazine scan version available, so thanks, Hogal, for also posting the original scans.

I could use ACAD-compatible .DWG or .DXF files for some since I usually redo plans in CAD before building so I can check dims, make mods & lasercut files. But .PDF images of CAD files do nothing for me.

-Dave

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edubarca View Post
I'm so sorry that the plans posted by "Hogal" are CAD. I would prefer the original magazine scan which is much better and it shows the style of the guy who drew them. CAD plans are always very cold and inhuman and not very accurate simply because they are NOT the originals.
Sorry for my mistake!! Fortunately the plans were posted as the original magazine plans.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 08:41 AM
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And CAD and Zip files do nothing for me, but I'm just glad that someone is keeping the designs active in whatever format.

Regards Ian.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 08:55 AM
You sabotaged my plane.
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Not everyone uses cad but a zip file is just a compressed plan. Click on it and the plan should open in whatever format the plan is, be it pdf , jpg or whatever.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 01:07 PM
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CAD and PDF files.

Let me answer to the last few posts reference the type of files that I have loaded onto this forum.

This forum does not cater for any CAD formats, .dxf, .dwg, .tcw or any others so the only way they could be incorporated is to put them in a zip file. Like some others I do not like this format.

A lot of people just want to look at the design and admire the plan and .pdf's are a good way of doing this. I started to do CAD tracings of the original plan scans because I found there was a lot of background noise on the early plans and this obscured the originals, especially when enlarged. Once I started to post my drawings the compliments far exceeded what I thought I would get, for that I thank everyone on this forum, but I realised that people would still want to see the original which is why I use the format I do. You can get an idea of what the model is like from my introduction and the picture, you can see the original article and you can see a .pdf of my tracing. The .pdf can be downloaded as a tiled print or taken to the local copy shop if you ever feel like building from it.

The absence of a CAD file has been recognised and Steve from Outerzone. As a joint venture he has been uploading .dwg's of my drawings onto his site so check there if you want the CAD file. If it's not there just drop me a line and I'll forward it to you.

I hope that clears up the why's and wherefores of my posts. As the old adage goes 'One man's meat is another's poison'. I just hope that my posts satisfy the majority of the forum users.

Cheers

Al
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 02:05 PM
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Southampton, UK
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They do,Al, they do satisfy

I am pleased to see that your labor (and it is labor to tidy up a plan from the original) does not see the CAD initial version lost ( lost to us ) and that those like me can use a CAD plan to rescale are very grateful to you and Steve ( and any others who submit CAD plans ) for all your work and dedication.

many thanks

john
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 04:58 PM
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USA, TX, Friendswood
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As far as I can tell, all of the plans Al has converted to CAD have always been accompanied by the original version as well.

I don't use CAD, but I'm aware that things can be accomplished with them in CAD that cannot in other formats

Please keep doing what you do so well, Al.

g
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 11:52 PM
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Ok all, I should not have thrown gas on the fire. Lets not let this CAD / orignals debate get to be like the copyright junk... and get back to plans in whatever format that can be transmitted...


George
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:15 AM
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United States, MA, Waltham
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two plans from April 1996 Airflow newsletter

-Silhouette Curtiss O.52 Model Glider "pre-RC Model Airplane News" That's what it said on the plan and in the newsletter, but there are traces of September 1942 on one edge. (Isn't that after the Good bros. started messing around with RC?) I think this is meant to have 10" span.

-Indoor Commercial Kit No.4 Lesson No. 4 Primary Model Airplane Cours Joe Ott
18 inch span as printed in April 1996 Airflow newsletter

Sorry about the zip files for the indoor commercial, but when I shrink the plan with the software I have, it gets a lot coarser. So the same apology applies to the ridiculous size. One of these days I'll have to get the right software.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 03:21 AM
Heads up...
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United States, VA, Stafford
Joined Jun 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogal View Post
Let me answer to the last few posts reference the type of files that I have loaded onto this forum.

The absence of a CAD file has been recognised and Steve from Outerzone. As a joint venture he has been uploading .dwg's of my drawings onto his site so check there if you want the CAD file. If it's not there just drop me a line and I'll forward it to you.

I hope that clears up the why's and wherefores of my posts. As the old adage goes 'One man's meat is another's poison'. I just hope that my posts satisfy the majority of the forum users.

Cheers

Al
It does and thank you. I got what I was looking for.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 04:59 AM
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Ελλάδα, Ανατολική Μακεδονία Θράκη, Βιστωνίδα
Joined Jul 2006
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In the old days the design was going on paper with pencil or pen and ink later.
Today with the new technology programs and computers, the design is done with these two in combination.
The result in both cases the design has beauty.
The old is old and the new is new.
I thank the hogal for his work and the lessons to us.
I like the plans of the new form of design.

Elijah Greece.
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