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Old Jan 06, 2013, 10:42 AM
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Canada, ON, Hamilton
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Weldbond glue

Charlie, I really like dope too, but it is very expensive and hard to come by. Sig no longer has quart ( 1L) cans. Years ago I use to get 5 gal. cans of butrate dope (Don Scott) for $35!

Now I use 50/50 white glue,Weldbond
http://www.weldbond.com/

for my indoor and small models and larger RC models. Cheap, and no smell!

Just be careful if applying to bare wood that you don’t warp the structure.
Coat the structure area and allow to dry. Almost like “dope and thinners” as explained above, but in this case using only Weldbond.

I like to used wet silk span, again put a second light coat on the structure and lay on the damp silk span, pull out the wrinkles and allow to dry. Trim when dry, use a hot iron for any “touch ups”.
I also use this glue for 90% of my builds.
It can also be used as a sanding sealer.
It can be applied over foam and balsa sheeting, allowed to dry, then the balsa can be ironed on, similar to a plastic film.
It is a little “rubbery” to sand, but not a big problem.

I have used Weldbond and silkspan to cover a foam core, then sprayed a light coat of dope over top. The Weldbond protected the foam, and the dope stuck to the silkspan coated with Weldbond.

I guess the bottom line, use whatever you like, or can get. If dope was easy to come by (1 L), and less expensive, then I would use it. For larger models I’m moving to the plastic (cheaper), for small models, silkspan or tissue paper.
Clear Krylon spray on tissue makes an alternative “dope” finish but is not fuel proof.
http://www.krylon.com/

John
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 10:59 AM
Ad eos qui nesciunt crepitus
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United States, TN, Memphis
Joined Dec 2012
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Tissue Troubles

John,

Thank you for the reply/advice. I remember using 50/50 instead of dope/thinner, becasue of the fumes.....and it seemed to work......except that was 40 years ago, and my memory ain't what it used to be.

I'll try to find Weldbond for the next bird..in the meantime, I'll got Elmers.....this bird won't be competing against anything except sudden stops.

Would a suitable alternate for dope be urethane ? MinWax has a high gloss spray that puts out a mist rather than a fan spray....and urethane is fuel proof....... just wondering about weight.

And your right, dope is expensive.....~$8 for a 4 oz.....and Monokote is $27/roll.
It used to be $6

Again, thanks for the response.

Best regards,

Charlie
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 12:40 PM
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Canada, ON, Hamilton
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Charlie, the MinWax should also be fine.

I haven’t used it on models, but I have seen others use it, for example I saw a “foam jet” covered in light weight FG cloth, coated with Min Wax. It looked fantastic. Not sure what the weight gain was.
Myself, for foam, I use ½ oz FG cloth and epoxy thinned 25% with methanol. I dab the resin onto the cloth and use a “rolling sponge” action to wet it down. A little bit goes a long way.
See my P38 stab example, page 259 post #3883
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...28276&page=259

Urathane paint should be fine. I’ve used the “Flecto” but it is no longer available in colour.

The old “solvent based” was fuel proof, smelly and took a few hours to dry. It worked well and was a good paint.

The “new water based” paints dry quickly, little smell and are easy to work with. They are not as “tough ie) fuel proof” as the old solvent based. However, the water based paint can be coated with dope. If you spray on, or use a light coat, the dope solvent will not affect the water base paint.

The Blue Flame fuselage (in my blog) has a water based urethane coated with clear butrate dope. This has lasted for years, much longer than the plastic covering.

So, I would suggest you try what you have. Just “dust” on the first coat and let it dry. If the frame work is really light, you might want to pin the wing down so it doesn’t warp. Also, dry tissue may not shrink as tightly.
John
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planeman View Post
More plans. Planeman
The Effinger plans are copyrighted and currently being sold online by the owner...
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 02:30 PM
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Glue sticks work well for attaching the tissue to the frame, then WBPU for final coat holds the tissue firmly to framework. Not fuel proof, but great for covering a glider. And no foul odors.

g

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Old Jan 06, 2013, 03:57 PM
*jj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giuseppi View Post
Glue sticks work well for attaching the tissue to the frame, then WBPU for final coat holds the tissue firmly to framework. Not fuel proof, but great for covering a glider. And no foul odors.
I use gluesticks as well, so much easier than dope (which has never worked for me). Don't forget to leave time for the glue to dry before water shrinking!
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 04:13 PM
Ad eos qui nesciunt crepitus
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United States, TN, Memphis
Joined Dec 2012
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Tissue Issues

All,

Thank you so much.

So far, a little Elmer's thinned 1(water) to 3 (Elmer's) works good....now if I could get these old fat fingers to work !

I'm going to try the glue sticks for the wings......this bird has a 72" span and a 6" chord. Also gonna try the urethane.

I'll post some pics when she's done, and let you know how "y'all" did !

Thanks again

C
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 10:04 PM
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I really like using Polycrylic with silk span. It lays down flat and very easy to sand. Two coats and almost like glass with very little weight gain while filling the pores. Fast drying and very little odor so I can work inside on the kitchen table. My wife loves me.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 10:44 PM
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United States, MA, Waltham
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If Sig doesn't offer quart cans of dope, then they're not updating their web site. That site also shows Stix It and their sanding sealer, all of which I like.

You can get a gallon of Certified Coatings dope from Aircraft Spruce for something like $40. If it's the same as a few years ago, it sticks better than Sig Nitrate, although if you get Fab Tac it sticks even better. Not sure it's better than Stix It, however, except it doesn't seem to try so hard to escape the can.

Don't use glue stick if the model is going to get wet. It's no fun to have your covering start to let go. This is not just a theory, it's happened to me.

I really like dope, but it is full of solvents, so may create too many problems in some situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV8R View Post
Charlie, I really like dope too, but it is very expensive and hard to come by. Sig no longer has quart ( 1L) cans. Years ago I use to get 5 gal. cans of butrate dope (Don Scott) for $35!

snip

John
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Thermaler View Post
16 million colors!

Joe
Not sure why it came out so large. Maybe I screwed up a setting. Usually I scan at 400 dpi greyscale and a full page from an old magazine with paper that is getting dark will be 2MB or less as a jpeg.

I invite anyone with better software to fix it. I have a gazillion things to scan.
--------
Starcad:
Is that a Dave Robelen glider design?
--------
If you can't stand dope, the old white glue and water trick works quite well to stick the tissue down. However, I like dope better. Or, at least, Stix It or Fab Tac, which are much stickier. Seems like model dope is not as sticky as it used to be. A can of real aircraft dope I have is somewhere in between and is capable of sticking down aircraft dacron to patch a fabric covered boat. I use acetone to flood through the covering and activate the stickum.

Stix It is also very good as an iron on adhesive for covering material. For ironing on wood sheeting, Titebond is very good when it's dry, if you make sure there are no little blobs left over.
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 12:18 AM
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Sinbad 40 free flight glider

I've noticed the plans for every other flavor of Sinbad except this one on the web. Not sure why not, but I scanned the old kit I had for these.

Maybe someone with more patience, talent, and better software than I have will piece these together. If the gaps are too big, I suppose I could unfold the plans and scan again across the folds.
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 01:22 AM
OCD: Old, Cranky and Disgusted
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United States, TX, Sweetwater
Joined Mar 2005
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Check out Brodak's catalogue. He sells repackaged Randolph's in a broad selection. For the small models, thin it 1 part dope to 3 parts thinner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_Pilot View Post
John,

Thank you for the reply/advice. I remember using 50/50 instead of dope/thinner, becasue of the fumes.....and it seemed to work......except that was 40 years ago, and my memory ain't what it used to be.

I'll try to find Weldbond for the next bird..in the meantime, I'll got Elmers.....this bird won't be competing against anything except sudden stops.

Would a suitable alternate for dope be urethane ? MinWax has a high gloss spray that puts out a mist rather than a fan spray....and urethane is fuel proof....... just wondering about weight.

And your right, dope is expensive.....~$8 for a 4 oz.....and Monokote is $27/roll.
It used to be $6

Again, thanks for the response.

Best regards,

Charlie
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 07:48 AM
Ad eos qui nesciunt crepitus
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United States, TN, Memphis
Joined Dec 2012
1,304 Posts
Tissue Issues

Sundancer/John/Giuseppi/JJ/Starcad/Lincoln/Challenger_I

WOW......

Thank you all for such a wealth of information, and techniques for sticking paper to balsa. It'll cost me a million dollars to try them all.......LOL

Here's what I learned last night:

WORK SLOW !

Tissue paper with a shiny side (Rite-Aid) is better than paper without.... seems to be stronger.

1 to 3 white glue works great, dries clear and smooth. It's easy to pull the wrinkles out. Thinning the mixture any more, and the tissue gets too wet and pulls appart, tears, etc.

White glue sticks work well, especially on large surfaces, i.e. wings. "Purple" sticks (Avery) however, stick well but leave colored paper mottled or splotchy when dry. My wife said the edges of the wings looked like they had age spots....

NO FUMES.....which made everybody in the house happy....especially the cats.

Once dry, water misting/drying tightened the paper like I remember, much like the sheets on your bunk in basic training !

Steaming works better than spray bottles from Home Depot. In fact, the paper will shrink so tight that it will pull apart between spars ! These wings are going to end up looking like one of my grandmother's quilts....

Local availability of components is very limited. We only have two hobby shops in Memphis ( Used to have 6 or 7), and the majority of components are vintage 60's. Some of the balsa stock is so old it's the color of walnut, and the dope selection is almost nil. I know this stuff is available by way of mail order, but I'm too impatient for that, along with being Old, Cranky and Disgusted !

Again, thank you all for your input/advice/techniques......

Calm winds

Charlie
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 12:21 PM
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USA, TX, Friendswood
Joined Jul 2007
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O_P,

The purple should eventually dissolve to clear. It's supposed to, anyway. A lot of modelers like the purple because its easy to see where you've been. And it should turn clear.

Try Hobby Lobby ( the craft store not the hobby shop) for balsa. I checked Memphis,TN and there are a couple close by. One's in Germantown. If its anything like the store I use here, they'll have a good supply of fresh balsa.

g
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Old Jan 07, 2013, 01:20 PM
Ad eos qui nesciunt crepitus
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United States, TN, Memphis
Joined Dec 2012
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Tissue Issues

G,

Will do......

Oh, the purple glue dries clear, but somehow affects the pigment in the paper.

thanks,

O_P
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