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Old Dec 06, 2011, 09:10 PM
MJF
Waiting Fer Da SEFF
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United States, GA, Perry
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heli pad..............cool avatar ya gots there
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Old Dec 06, 2011, 09:54 PM
Against Helicopter Cruelty
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Thanks, MJF. Not as cool as the Chappy Moo.
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Old Dec 06, 2011, 09:58 PM
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United States, IL, Manteno
Joined Dec 2006
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Mix it up!

I've been using the mix shown below on my DX6i with both my 120 SRs. It helps keep the nose straight and level in forward flight.

I forgot how well it actually worked until I flew a buddy's new 120 SR last week to help him tirm it out. His transmitter didn't have the mix programmed in and it was definitely harder to get his 120 flying forward smoothly.

I can't take credit for the mix - found it online - but I did have to adjust the values to work best for my particular helicopter. So, consider my setup as a starting point. Also, if you try it, be sure that the "R" value is MINUS.

Don
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Old Dec 06, 2011, 10:08 PM
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^sweeet! thank you bro!
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Old Dec 06, 2011, 10:29 PM
Look ma, no hands!
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United States, WI, Sheboygan
Joined Aug 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heli Pad View Post
Sax, does shorter blades = less lift = more throttle? Did you notice a difference in throttle in addition to the other responses you've already mentioned?
Good questions - I cut down and balanced a couple of blades and tried 'em in the basement. The heli did behave better but it took a LOT of throttle to keep it in the air - almost full throttle to just to take off. I even tried increasing the blade pitch but it didn't help. Went back to the stock blades for now - got to have my "zip" back.
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Old Dec 06, 2011, 11:27 PM
Look ma, no hands!
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United States, WI, Sheboygan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chap1012 View Post
You must have an extra brass washer right? You need this! The O-rings are a bugger to find on the heli. Pull your blades down to one side or the other and look at the center of your rotor. Now look for two slots on either side of the rotor. The O-rings slip into those slots when everything is apart of course. I am told they are for dampening. It took a while for me to figure out where those O-rings went myself I actually thought I was missing them from the feathering shaft <(a double embarrassment)...LOL.

Mike.
Back in June when I started flying my first heli, an MCX2, you gave me two really good pieces of advice:
1. Read the book;
and
B. Call things by their right names.

The parts list and exploded view show a BLH3113 Feathering Spindle with O-rings and Bushings. The spindle is a short metal rod that passes through the rotor hub; there is an O-ring and bushing on the spindle on either side of the hub.

I haven't found the O-rings on my heli; they may be pushed back into the rotor hub behind the bushings. I don't know what the feathering spindle does anyway; there is a little play in the blade grips and I can't feel any "dampening".

Tomorrow night I'll have a chance to examine a couple of SR 120's that have never been disassembled. Maybe that will shed some light on the subject.
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Old Dec 07, 2011, 06:48 AM
Easy on the Sticks!
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United States, WY, Crowheart
Joined Aug 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Pilgrim View Post
Back in June when I started flying my first heli, an MCX2, you gave me two really good pieces of advice:
1. Read the book;
and
B. Call things by their right names.

The parts list and exploded view show a BLH3113 Feathering Spindle with O-rings and Bushings. The spindle is a short metal rod that passes through the rotor hub; there is an O-ring and bushing on the spindle on either side of the hub.

I haven't found the O-rings on my heli; they may be pushed back into the rotor hub behind the bushings. I don't know what the feathering spindle does anyway; there is a little play in the blade grips and I can't feel any "dampening".

Tomorrow night I'll have a chance to examine a couple of SR 120's that have never been disassembled. Maybe that will shed some light on the subject.
Hi Guys,
The o-ring dampeners are slipped into the small slots on the rotor head(like Chap found out, the hard way!, oh well, learning the hard way is very effective!)

On my B450 they push in to a recessed groove on the outside of the end of the rotor head, and use shims between the blade grip and the head to create more or less compression on them, thus adjusting the dampening effect.

There is also aftermarket rings for the 450 that are of a different "hardness" and are use to adjust the dampening effect. This hardness or softness of the rings is called the "durometer" rating.

The dampeners are used to soften or harden the sensitivity of the feathering shaft/spindle, and the whole head mechanism. To my knowledge, there is no adjusting the 120SR dampeners, either with shims or stiffer/softer orings.

But too much heavy lube in this area can cause troubles including TBE. Light lube in this area is best.

Cheers fella's
Kyle
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Old Dec 07, 2011, 07:03 AM
Easy on the Sticks!
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United States, WY, Crowheart
Joined Aug 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heliguyhigh View Post
Thanks BD

yea,i pulled out the feathering shaft,tried rolling it,& it 'felt' normal,but went ahead and replaced it. I'll grab a mainshaft today & let you guys know if they fix my problem!

thanks again,

pj
Your welcome HGH,
One thing to remember is if we are using the "roll test" to try to detect bent shafts, it is best done on perfectly flat surface such as a pane of glass. It only takes a thousandth or two to cause troubles.
BD
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Old Dec 07, 2011, 07:14 AM
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Joined Aug 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital Don View Post
I've been using the mix shown below on my DX6i with both my 120 SRs. It helps keep the nose straight and level in forward flight.

I forgot how well it actually worked until I flew a buddy's new 120 SR last week to help him tirm it out. His transmitter didn't have the mix programmed in and it was definitely harder to get his 120 flying forward smoothly.

I can't take credit for the mix - found it online - but I did have to adjust the values to work best for my particular helicopter. So, consider my setup as a starting point. Also, if you try it, be sure that the "R" value is MINUS.

Don
Being new to this I had purchased Salt's guide to the 120SR and MSR and followed his intructions on the mixing. He mentioned to use minus values, but when I did it had the opposite effect. So I watched my servos as I actuated the controls to get the desired effect of more lift on the right or starboard side. I ended up with positive values. There is no servo reversing set up either. But what do those "L" and "R" stand for...I assume left and right but I never see it mentioned. BTW, I use a DX7 TX.
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Old Dec 07, 2011, 08:42 AM
Look ma, no hands!
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United States, WI, Sheboygan
Joined Aug 2011
1,252 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jburg View Post
Being new to this I had purchased Salt's guide to the 120SR and MSR and followed his intructions on the mixing. He mentioned to use minus values, but when I did it had the opposite effect. So I watched my servos as I actuated the controls to get the desired effect of more lift on the right or starboard side. I ended up with positive values. There is no servo reversing set up either. But what do those "L" and "R" stand for...I assume left and right but I never see it mentioned. BTW, I use a DX7 TX.
The mix and trim values must be very specific to each heli.

The flying style and conditions (wind vs no wind, small spaces vs gym or great outdoors) have a big impact.

The way the heli itself is set up has a lot to do with it (cg, blade balance and tracking, battery rating and condition plus a whole bunch of squirrely etceteras ).

To make it even more interesting, the tx settings interact with each other in unexpected ways and the required trim values seem to change in flight!

So many choices, so little flight time - a tinkerer's dream!
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Old Dec 07, 2011, 09:50 AM
NotAnotherMomentLostToSei zures
Chap1012's Avatar
United States, MA, Malden
Joined Mar 2008
11,287 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heli Pad View Post
Sax, does shorter blades = less lift = more throttle? Did you notice a difference in throttle in addition to the other responses you've already mentioned?
I wondered about this myself. Not only what you mentioned but what about the strain on the main motor Does it get hotter than normal on the same flight time??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heli Pad View Post
Thanks, MJF. Not as cool as the Chappy Moo.
Chappy Moo?...LOL. Kinda has a ring to it. I am humbled

Quote:
Originally Posted by BattleDude View Post
Your welcome HGH,
One thing to remember is if we are using the "roll test" to try to detect bent shafts, it is best done on perfectly flat surface such as a pane of glass. It only takes a thousandth or two to cause troubles.
BD
As BD points out...it could be off by a thousandth or two. I changed my feathering shaft while at the VFW hall (all went well after the change). When I roll tested it on a sheet of glass when I got home, it looked and "sounded" ok. "Sounded" you ask? I do roll testing on my V4 shafts all the time. If you are unable to actually see the humping motion of a bad shaft, I do a fast roll test on the glass and listen. You can actually hear a shaft that is not true doing a fast roll test

My point!!?? Change it out anyway and see how it flys. You can change it out quickly, and quickly you can rule it out OR if it was the problem as I did

Mike.
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Old Dec 07, 2011, 12:13 PM
Registered User
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Joined Dec 2011
36 Posts
hey guys

ive been running the align trex 250 landing gear on the 120 without those little setscrews,& its annoying to look at the un-even landing gear skids. Anyone know what size that screw is? im thinking .5mm or around there.


thanks

pj
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Old Dec 07, 2011, 12:15 PM
Look ma, no hands!
1Pilgrim's Avatar
United States, WI, Sheboygan
Joined Aug 2011
1,252 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BattleDude View Post
Hi Guys,
The o-ring dampeners are slipped into the small slots on the rotor head(like Chap found out, the hard way!, oh well, learning the hard way is very effective!)

On my B450 they push in to a recessed groove on the outside of the end of the rotor head, and use shims between the blade grip and the head to create more or less compression on them, thus adjusting the dampening effect.

There is also aftermarket rings for the 450 that are of a different "hardness" and are use to adjust the dampening effect. This hardness or softness of the rings is called the "durometer" rating.

The dampeners are used to soften or harden the sensitivity of the feathering shaft/spindle, and the whole head mechanism. To my knowledge, there is no adjusting the 120SR dampeners, either with shims or stiffer/softer orings.

But too much heavy lube in this area can cause troubles including TBE. Light lube in this area is best.

Cheers fella's
Kyle
So you're saying that the slack between the rotor hub and blade grips is supposed to be taken up by a combination of O-rings and those washer-like bushings? And the O-rings provide a "cushion" for when the shaft takes a hit? That makes sense, but how important is it to get the grips centered on the shaft? Seems as though letting the grips and spindle "float" a bit would allow them to center on their own, right?

Guess I'd better have a chat with my lhs about some replacement parts.
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Old Dec 07, 2011, 12:17 PM
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36 Posts
Also,got my heli to hold a good hover now. Replaced the mainshaft and the feathering shaft. Flies good,going to try some FFF today since i havent had the chance to in about a week-_- ...


but man,my aileron servo link is almost 'max short' & my elevator link is almost 'max long' ..my swashplate looks unever,but my heli flies 0_0


pj
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Old Dec 07, 2011, 12:59 PM
NotAnotherMomentLostToSei zures
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United States, MA, Malden
Joined Mar 2008
11,287 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by heliguyhigh View Post
Also,got my heli to hold a good hover now. Replaced the mainshaft and the feathering shaft. Flies good,going to try some FFF today since i havent had the chance to in about a week-_- ...


but man,my aileron servo link is almost 'max short' & my elevator link is almost 'max long' ..my swashplate looks unever,but my heli flies 0_0


pj
An uneven swashplate and it still hovers "good." When you replaced the main shaft did you disconnect the push rods from the servo? If so, did you return those push rods in the same holes it came out from? Look at the holes on the servos carefully. Wherever you last had them in the holes, around those holes will be dirty and even blackened a bit from constant movement.

Can you post a pic of this "uneven" swash?

EDIT: I forgot to ask...did you have to make any adjustment to either pushrod? I replaced my main shaft with an Xtreme and it was a complete drop in. Swash is level. Hovers great!

Mike.
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