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Old Feb 18, 2013, 12:46 AM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Dec 2011
7,574 Posts
When I say "Your AIL and ELE shouldn't drift" I don't mean they might not need trimming, but once it's set it's set... either mechanically or electronically, and it shouldn' drift, that is... need adjusting during a flight, once they are set for a still hover... a depleting battery over the course of a flight will have no affect on their settings... when you trim them either mechanically or even electronically through the Tx you are mechanically setting their position using the pushrods from the servos to the swash, and the position is fixed once you stop adjusting it. It shouldn't need adjusting again unless something physically changes in your setup... maybe after dismantling and re-assembling something or replacing parts?

The rudder action is a different story... it has no mechanically fixed neutral setting... its trim is completely controlled electronically by regulating the speed of the tail motor/rotor. As the battery depletes over the course of a run, its trim (which is completely electronic) will usually need to be adjusted to compensate... because its fixed electronic setting is no longer in sync with the motor as the motor becomes underpowered.. actually, it's the relationship of the main motor to tail motor power that gets out of sync. My mSR does this as well. You would think the gyros would prevent this but anyone who owns these knows they don't .. I remember dacaur even bringing that part up.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 01:07 AM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Dec 2011
7,574 Posts
EDIT

I believe the thing about electronic trimming in an as3x system is that if you added enough it, it would be considered by the system as actual user input.

dacaur would know more about that.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 01:10 AM
J.C.
JChoosier's Avatar
United States, IN, Goshen
Joined Feb 2013
52 Posts
OK I follow what you're saying now. Mechanical stays where you put it and is unaffected by battery voltage, whereas elecronic (tail rotor) will vary. I'm still new to SR, and despite the hundreds of posts I've read here, I still have an awful lot to learn

I think my biggest problem is a bad case of nerves every time I take off. Yhanks for your help.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 01:16 AM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Dec 2011
7,574 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JChoosier View Post
OK I follow what you're saying now. Mechanical stays where you put it and is unaffected by battery voltage, whereas elecronic (tail rotor) will vary. I'm still new to SR, and despite the hundreds of posts I've read here, I still have an awful lot to learn

I think my biggest problem is a bad case of nerves every time I take off. Yhanks for your help.
Yup.

I edited my post to hopefully make it more clear, check it out again ... #17371

No problem.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 01:16 AM
J.C.
JChoosier's Avatar
United States, IN, Goshen
Joined Feb 2013
52 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_of_49 View Post
EDIT

I believe the thing about electronic trimming in an as3x system is that if you added enough it, it would be considered by the system as actual user input.

dacaur would know more about that.
Yes, that was the impression I got too. In other words, the more you try to trim it, the more it would attempt to counter your trim inputs in order to stabilize the heli.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 01:17 AM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Dec 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JChoosier View Post
Yes, that was the impression I got too. In other words, the more you try to trim it, the more it would attempt to counter your trim inputs in order to stabilize the heli.
Yes, I think so. dacaur can confirm.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 01:28 AM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Dec 2011
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edited post #17371 again

... gotta run to wally world before it closes
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 02:23 AM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Dec 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JChoosier View Post
Yes, that was the impression I got too. In other words, the more you try to trim it, the more it would attempt to counter your trim inputs in order to stabilize the heli.
Quote:
Originally Posted by North_of_49 View Post
Yes, I think so. dacaur can confirm.
Actually, I think it might be the opposite... that the gyro would release its hold.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 02:25 AM
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United States, CA, Clovis
Joined Mar 2004
3,312 Posts
Well.. I scored an mSRx.. got a great deal I think. Should be here next week.. about the time we're expecting rain... which doesn't matter.. hah... It should be several steps above the little coax heli's I've been flying indoors.. I'm expecting something like my 120SR(which I've not flown indoors..that will be a ways down the road)..... it might even be a bit more spirited.. should be cool. Anyone got a real life comparison to share?

Still reading up on these things.. having fun all along the way.. and I did get to fly today.. and I should get a few or more flights in tomorrow.. lifes good.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 02:54 AM
Heli's rule!
dacaur's Avatar
Midvale, Utah, USA
Joined Mar 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JChoosier View Post
Hopefully I'm doing this right. Thank you sir (and others) for the speedy reply. I have been under the impression that the only heli's that didn't need trimming were the ones that had a 3 or 6 axis gyro, like the AS3X, Beast x, etc. I understand what you said, but then why do FBL helis explicitly say not to use any trim? I'm just using the MCPX as an example, but it implies that a FB heli needs trimming? I'm kinda lost.
Its not that the 120sr doesn't need trimming, but it should really only be a one time thing on aileron and elevator. Basically, you should trim it on the initial flight for a stable hover, and if it ever requires more trim (for aileron and elevator) its a good sign that something is wrong....

As for the FBL helis, you don't use trim because they have heading hold gyros on the aileron and elevator (tail too), so whatever orientation the heli is in when the gyros activate (when you turn on the throttle) that's "center", and any time you move them (with the sticks), that becomes the new "center"....

Basically, when you move the trim on your radio, you radio sends that like a stick movement. The heli cannot tell the difference between a trim adjustment and a stick movement. So if you were to trim it in the air, the heli just sees a tiny stick movement.
The problem is that the radio is constantly sending this tiny stick movement, You might not even notice a click or two.... but you are basically constantly telling the heli "go this way" even when you aren't touching the stick.... more than 4 or 5 clicks is really noticeable.
Witha FBL heli, if you throttle up a bit and hold it in your hand, then add a few clicks of trim, you can watch the swash move slowly in that direction, you can correct it with the sticks, then it will just slowly move back the same direction.... That's why you don't use any trim on a FBL bird.... any trimming on a heading hold gyro must be done mechanically.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 09:46 AM
Rockin' & Flyin'
Saxguy1000's Avatar
Virginia Beach
Joined Dec 2009
2,864 Posts
I might add that you do the mechanical trimming of aileron and elevator by adjusting the two pushrods. After hard landings--often called CRASHES--the pushrods end up bent or otherwise affected. I've written much in this topic--that this is often the way to solve many flight problems. However, pushrods have nothing to do with tail motor or yaw problems. Just tossing this in to clarify the difference.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 09:50 AM
Epilepsy Awareness
Chap1012's Avatar
United States, MA, Malden
Joined Mar 2008
11,835 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JChoosier View Post
OK I follow what you're saying now. Mechanical stays where you put it and is unaffected by battery voltage, whereas elecronic (tail rotor) will vary. I'm still new to SR, and despite the hundreds of posts I've read here, I still have an awful lot to learn

I think my biggest problem is a bad case of nerves every time I take off. Yhanks for your help.
If you'd like to calm those nerves on take off, here a little trick from a member (1Pilgrim).

Use your manual under the left skid. I use a short piece of wood lath (from the old walls) which is about 3/8" thick. On lift off she'll pop straight up with no right stick input

Mike.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 10:52 AM
Safety : practice & promote!
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Joined Dec 2011
4,895 Posts
With the AS3X (and I'm sure the BeastX and others), you're not controlling the servos directly. The AS3X is doing that. It interprets your stick motions as suggestions as to where you want to go and then it figures out the best way to move the servos to make it do that. With the MSRX in particular, if you move your aile/elev off center with trim, it's interpreting that as a direction where you want to fly.

With FB helis you're directly controlling the servos with your sticks. That lets you place the aile/elv servos exactly where you want them with the transmitter trim. Of course, the consensus is that it's better to mechanically trim the heli by adjusting the lengths of the pushrods first.
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 02:00 PM
Registered User
venicebill's Avatar
United States, FL, North Port
Joined Jun 2012
173 Posts
No flying today..33 degree in swfl and wind ..the msr is out of commission with a broken paddle on order with no backup for indoor flying so ordered another msr wish they had a bnf instead of having to buy the rtf Happy Flying
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 02:19 PM
Rockin' & Flyin'
Saxguy1000's Avatar
Virginia Beach
Joined Dec 2009
2,864 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by venicebill View Post
No flying today..33 degree in swfl and wind ..the msr is out of commission with a broken paddle on order with no backup for indoor flying so ordered another msr wish they had a bnf instead of having to buy the rtf Happy Flying
After a while of ordering parts, you could have enough parts to build a brand new one--bnf! That's what I've done. That's how I also end up building heli's that are 1/2 one and 1/2 another--but they work!
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