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Old Apr 16, 2011, 02:03 PM
Live to learn. . .
Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
1,489 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianos007 View Post
Thanks Rafa i give it a try

Grtz Ed
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the general rule is to increase gyro sensitivity till it starts to wag, then bring it back down a bit. I guess that would mean that you should back off the gyro a bit if it wags in the wind. I'm playing with these same questions on my M120D01, except with the E and A gyros.

Let us know how it goes,

Rafa
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Old Apr 16, 2011, 02:32 PM
"you'll play to live "
Alwayscrash's Avatar
Canada, QC, Montreal
Joined Sep 2009
1,732 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianos007 View Post
Anybody with this problem.

When flying in windy conditions lets say 8 knots of wind the tail is shaking

Wobbeling.When its windstil no schaking of the tail.
Somme solutions i think it is the gyro ho hase problems getting hise tail locked.

Grtz Ed
I use 85% on gyrosens when flying outdoor in mild wind without problem.Sometimes must raise to 90%. Make sure your tail drive mechanism is totally "free spin" (check it without motor/main gear engaged), belt drive not too tight,tail pitch slider/push rod must be smooth ). Also, don't expect walker tail servo to be perfectly fast and strong as high end servos.....
AC
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Old Apr 18, 2011, 01:11 PM
Buy, Mod, Fly, Sell, Repeat
JHawk19's Avatar
United States, SC
Joined Apr 2008
2,061 Posts
Subscribing and question...

I know...setup has been done 100 times in this thread.

I came across this setup for the WK-2801-Pro, which I have. My heli arrives Wednesday (4/20). Will either of these setups work for me as a beginner on this heli?

I would like the most simple setup with good gyro performance and low servo travel. I am not interested in any 3D flight for a while.


STICK: MODE2
COMPTB: 2801
IDECODEE: Random

SWASH: 1 SERVO NORM

REVERS: CH1 & CH2

GYROS: GYRO/AUX2 0: 80% 1: 20%

THROTTLE CURVES:
NORM L: 0% 1: 25% 2: 50% 3: 75% H: 100%
ST-1 L: 100% 1: 75% 2: 70% 3: 75% H: 100%
ST-2 L: 100% 1: 75% 2: 70% 3: 75% H: 100%

PITCH CURVES:
NORM L: 36.5% 1: 51% 2: 65% 3: 74.5% H: 84%
ST-1 L: 21.5% 1: 37.5% 2: 52.5% 3: 67.5% H: 82.5%
ST-2 L: 21.5% 1: 37.5% 2: 52.5% 3: 67.5% H: 82.5%



STICK: MODE2
COMPTB: 2601
IDECODEE: RANDOM

SWASH: 3SERVO 120

REVERS: CH2

SWAATS: SWASH
ELEV -60% ALAE 60% PIT 60%

GYRPAT
PLT 0
PIT 0
EXP1 0
EXP2 0
ATS R20%
SEN 20%
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Old Apr 21, 2011, 09:19 AM
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JHawk19's Avatar
United States, SC
Joined Apr 2008
2,061 Posts
Wow, two days, no response...no posts...nothing...
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Old Apr 21, 2011, 09:36 AM
"you'll play to live "
Alwayscrash's Avatar
Canada, QC, Montreal
Joined Sep 2009
1,732 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHawk19 View Post
Subscribing and question...

I know...setup has been done 100 times in this thread.

I came across this setup for the WK-2801-Pro, which I have. My heli arrives Wednesday (4/20). Will either of these setups work for me as a beginner on this heli?

I would like the most simple setup with good gyro performance and low servo travel. I am not interested in any 3D flight for a while.


STICK: MODE2
COMPTB: 2801
IDECODEE: Random

SWASH: 1 SERVO NORM

REVERS: CH1 & CH2

GYROS: GYRO/AUX2 0: 80% 1: 20%

THROTTLE CURVES:
NORM L: 0% 1: 25% 2: 50% 3: 75% H: 100%
ST-1 L: 100% 1: 75% 2: 70% 3: 75% H: 100%
ST-2 L: 100% 1: 75% 2: 70% 3: 75% H: 100%

PITCH CURVES:
NORM L: 36.5% 1: 51% 2: 65% 3: 74.5% H: 84%
ST-1 L: 21.5% 1: 37.5% 2: 52.5% 3: 67.5% H: 82.5%
ST-2 L: 21.5% 1: 37.5% 2: 52.5% 3: 67.5% H: 82.5%



STICK: MODE2
COMPTB: 2601
IDECODEE: RANDOM

SWASH: 3SERVO 120

REVERS: CH2

SWAATS: SWASH
ELEV -60% ALAE 60% PIT 60%

GYRPAT
PLT 0
PIT 0
EXP1 0
EXP2 0
ATS R20%
SEN 20%
If you wants something to tame it down, change stock Esc's for a "yellow" one, keep TX's stock settings, increase balance delay and fly it.Also, using yellow Trex plastic main blades will make heli a lot lazy in flight.
AC
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Old Apr 21, 2011, 09:59 AM
Buy, Mod, Fly, Sell, Repeat
JHawk19's Avatar
United States, SC
Joined Apr 2008
2,061 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwayscrash View Post
If you wants something to tame it down, change stock Esc's for a "yellow" one, keep TX's stock settings, increase balance delay and fly it.Also, using yellow Trex plastic main blades will make heli a lot lazy in flight.
AC
I don't know what the TX's stock settings are because I have a 2801-Pro. There are no stock settings...
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Old Apr 21, 2011, 10:05 AM
Diverted by planks
tracknoob's Avatar
South Florida
Joined Dec 2010
5,504 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHawk19 View Post
Wow, two days, no response...no posts...nothing...
Sorry, I would normally dive right in and be a guinea pig and try em out on mine, and report back, but when the ESC went out on it, even though I went ahead and bought a replacement 30A programmable upgrade replacement for it, I've parked my 4f200 and am working on my B400 FBL right now.

I've decided my three rotor helis are going to take more attention and skill to set up and fly than I have right now, so I shifted gears back to focusing on two blades for now.

I did go ahead and move my Esky CT 3-rotor head onto my HBKII because it has the belt-driven tail, and I think that with the 2702rx, will ultimately be a good combo for me to set up and play with. Unlike when I was playing with the CT, using the HBKII, there is no messing with DD electric tail and mixer going through a separate 3-axis gyro to try to balance out. Once the HBKII three rotor set-up is all tweaked out and happy, THEN and only then, do I intend to start again messing with the Walkera 3-rotor. It's too fragile, too pricey, and too touchy to keep screwing with for now. YMMV.
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Last edited by tracknoob; Apr 21, 2011 at 10:11 AM.
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Old Apr 21, 2011, 10:08 AM
"you'll play to live "
Alwayscrash's Avatar
Canada, QC, Montreal
Joined Sep 2009
1,732 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHawk19 View Post
I don't know what the TX's stock settings are because I have a 2801-Pro. There are no stock settings...
Hope this can help you a bit
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Old Apr 28, 2011, 08:46 AM
Live to learn. . .
Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
1,489 Posts
No lift ?!?!?!?

Hi Guys,

I haven't been flying the 4F200 much lately, because it has been having an on going issue. Here's a little history. I've had to replace motors on this bird every 100 flights or so, seems like they loose their punch or power. I went thru 2 stock motors, then bought the blue motor that someone suggested, but it would only fly for a minute or so on a full charge before there was no lift. If I remember right, someone mentioned that it was the wrong motor/pinion combo, so I left it at that.

I decided to just go back to the stock motor setup, except that I've been using the yellow rctimer esc since about 1/2 way thru the very first motor. I bought a stock motor from Terrence, installed it with the yellow esc. My very first flight with this motor ended tragically, as I forgot to switch the rx switch back to 'wk'. I was able to lift off and fly for 5-10 seconds, and it seemed like it had lift. The day was kinda windy, so maybe that was a factor too.

Since putting the heli back together, I've got virtually no lift. Everything spins up smooth and balanced, everything seems to spin freely as it seems like the thing takes a while to spool down. I've reconfirmed my pitch curves, I've got +/- 10 degrees. I've reconfirmed my throttle curves, and watched it go all the way up and down in the 'monitor' section of the tx. Same results in normal or idle up. I'm pretty sure the problem is electrical (to the heli), not mechanical.

Last night, I reinstalled my stock esc, which flew fine before I replaced it with the yellow one. Guess what--I've got no lift at all.

I have 4 stock batteries, which still get good voltage, but maybe kinda old, but I also have 2 fresh nrg batteries that all do the same thing. I have run the heli in my hand with the voltmeter connected, and voltage seems to hold itself OK.

I'm starting to run out of idea here. Can I measure voltage to the motor itself? Could I have just gotten a bad stock motor? What might be a root cause? What am I missing? I do have an extra rx, maybe I'll throw it at the bird. Thanks, as always,

Rafa
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Old Apr 28, 2011, 08:57 AM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
6,329 Posts
My main suspect would be batteries. Even if the voltage looks alright, it does not mean they are able to discharge well on demand. Your stock batteries must have been use quite a number of times. If you put away the heli for so long, the batteries may have deteriorated. This is what I think happened to me. I decided not to fly the 4F200 anymore because I do not want to get new batteries.
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Old May 01, 2011, 01:25 PM
Live to learn. . .
Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
1,489 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
My main suspect would be batteries. Even if the voltage looks alright, it does not mean they are able to discharge well on demand. Your stock batteries must have been use quite a number of times. If you put away the heli for so long, the batteries may have deteriorated. This is what I think happened to me. I decided not to fly the 4F200 anymore because I do not want to get new batteries.
Hi Zadaw, thanks for the quick reply. I'll include a fresh battery with my next parts order, but I have a hard time believing that all of my batteries would have suffered the same fate, as they are all different ages. Really, I hope it's a simple as a battery.

FWIW, after I read your post, I connected my voltmeter to the battery leads while running the heli in my hand for a minute. Voltage remained above 3.8V under full power. My only frame of reference is an automotive battery (much different bease, I know), but a weak car battery will lose voltage significantly when put under load, as it doesn't have the amps to feed the load.

If the kiddo takes a long nap today, I'll go to the shop and hook up the scope to the inputs/outputs of the esc, see what I can see.

Rafa
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Old May 01, 2011, 04:46 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
371 Posts
Have you checked the mainshaft collar?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
Hi Guys,

I haven't been flying the 4F200 much lately, because it has been having an on going issue. Here's a little history. I've had to replace motors on this bird every 100 flights or so, seems like they loose their punch or power. I went thru 2 stock motors, then bought the blue motor that someone suggested, but it would only fly for a minute or so on a full charge before there was no lift. If I remember right, someone mentioned that it was the wrong motor/pinion combo, so I left it at that.

I decided to just go back to the stock motor setup, except that I've been using the yellow rctimer esc since about 1/2 way thru the very first motor. I bought a stock motor from Terrence, installed it with the yellow esc. My very first flight with this motor ended tragically, as I forgot to switch the rx switch back to 'wk'. I was able to lift off and fly for 5-10 seconds, and it seemed like it had lift. The day was kinda windy, so maybe that was a factor too.

Since putting the heli back together, I've got virtually no lift. Everything spins up smooth and balanced, everything seems to spin freely as it seems like the thing takes a while to spool down. I've reconfirmed my pitch curves, I've got +/- 10 degrees. I've reconfirmed my throttle curves, and watched it go all the way up and down in the 'monitor' section of the tx. Same results in normal or idle up. I'm pretty sure the problem is electrical (to the heli), not mechanical.

Last night, I reinstalled my stock esc, which flew fine before I replaced it with the yellow one. Guess what--I've got no lift at all.

I have 4 stock batteries, which still get good voltage, but maybe kinda old, but I also have 2 fresh nrg batteries that all do the same thing. I have run the heli in my hand with the voltmeter connected, and voltage seems to hold itself OK.

I'm starting to run out of idea here. Can I measure voltage to the motor itself? Could I have just gotten a bad stock motor? What might be a root cause? What am I missing? I do have an extra rx, maybe I'll throw it at the bird. Thanks, as always,

Rafa
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Old May 01, 2011, 08:06 PM
Live to learn. . .
Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
1,489 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ri0grand View Post
Have you checked the mainshaft collar?
DUDE, I so owe you a beer next time I see you. I just checked the collar, and there is about 1mm of play between the top of the collar and the bearing! When I put my pitch gauge on, and the pitch at maximum, I had about 10 degrees till I pulled the main shaft up to take up that play . . . .. and my pitch dropped to 4 degrees! That's just below hover, which is right where this thing was getting!! I haven't flown it yet, but I'm pretty sure she'll be back after this!! Thanks again. I'll update soon hopefully! Woo hoo!

Rafa

(Wow, I haven't used that many exclamation points lately.)
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Old May 01, 2011, 11:35 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
371 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
DUDE, I so owe you a beer next time I see you. I just checked the collar, and there is about 1mm of play between the top of the collar and the bearing! When I put my pitch gauge on, and the pitch at maximum, I had about 10 degrees till I pulled the main shaft up to take up that play . . . .. and my pitch dropped to 4 degrees! That's just below hover, which is right where this thing was getting!! I haven't flown it yet, but I'm pretty sure she'll be back after this!! Thanks again. I'll update soon hopefully! Woo hoo!

Rafa

(Wow, I haven't used that many exclamation points lately.)
I have had that happen to me a few times after repair. I hope that does it!
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Old May 04, 2011, 01:09 AM
Live to learn. . .
Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
1,489 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ri0grand View Post
I have had that happen to me a few times after repair. I hope that does it!
Well, I had 3 glorious flights today, and she feels back to normal! Well balanced, well behaved. Even a bit of nose-in hover in a gentle breeze.

That said, I'm sad to say it, , but I've posted the 4F200 etc for sale. I've got kid #2 coming (little boy this time!), and I've got to get ready for other projects :
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1434070

I didn't realize that I had accumulated that much stuff,

Rafa
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