SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jan 19, 2011, 01:22 AM
Live to learn. . .
Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
1,489 Posts
Back to motors!

Hi Guys,

I've got some motor questions again. I'm up to 180 packs now, and I'm pretty sure that my motor is going weak again. I replaced the first motor at ~130 packs, so this one didn't do too good.

My symptom is that it's getting weak about half way thru a flight. I'm still flying for almost 5 minutes, bringing my cells down to ~3.78V/cell, but I just feel the 'punch' going away--enough that I'm really careful to not dig myself into a hole near the end of a pack.

I've got new batteries and old batteries, they act the same, so I'm pretty sure it's not a battery issue. I'm fairly sure that things are spinning freely at the end of the flight, since the thing takes a while to spin down after the throttle has been cut off. In fact, it's taking longer to spin down now than it used to. Pretty subjective, huh?

Does anyone know of a good 1S motor option for this bird? I'm cool with doing a 2S conversion later, but I don't want to waste all the batteries I've already got. I'm not looking to do any 3D artistry yet, I just want to be able to dig myself out of a hole--like I useta'could.

Am I asking too much from this poor brushless? What life are others getting out of these motors lately? Do people oil these motors, and if so, with what, and how often? Seems like I've asked a few of these questions long ago, but there wasn't much info out then. Just rechecking (and shopping motors),

Rafa
Rafa's CB100 is offline Find More Posts by Rafa's CB100
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jan 19, 2011, 02:31 AM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
6,248 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
Does anyone know of a good 1S motor option for this bird? I'm cool with doing a 2S conversion later,
Do you mean a good 2S motor and a 3S conversion later? I would rule out a battery problem first. Are you charging your batteries too fast? It could be that you are less able to draw current on demand.

To give an update, I have finally fixed my 4F200 and flew another 4 flights before one of the heads stripped off from the swashplate. I suppose I have been warned before about this. It seems that the leg has fractured inside the swashplate and I will have to replace the swashplate completely. This is definitely getting expensive.

I found that turning the ail/ele extent pot down and putting in a bit of exponential helped a lot. After a couple of flights, I removed the Trex blades and put the stock blades back on and it flew much better. It seems the Trex blades were providing much more lift and this made the controls more sensitive than the stock blades. My main problem now is to get it to take off without striking the blades. I am quite safe with it once it is in the air.

I just hope eventually that I will get to the point when I can scores of flights without it being interrupted by some events.
zadaw is online now Find More Posts by zadaw
Last edited by zadaw; Jan 19, 2011 at 06:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2011, 07:16 AM
Registered User
United States, FL, Hollywood
Joined Aug 2010
1,525 Posts
@Stretch1100
The Lama Fuse was purchased from this eBay link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/BLUE-CABIN-EK1-0...item230c6804ba
Seems to handle well except for that windy day.
Big Lama Beefed Up and Flybarless (1 min 17 sec)

That video was before the crash on that windy day. I have received a second Big Lama body, repaired the servo damage and would be flying this morning but it is again too windy, at 78 degrees here in Florida. I may post a hover video later inside a building though. If you need some pics on how to install I can provide them.
urrl is offline Find More Posts by urrl
Last edited by urrl; Jan 19, 2011 at 07:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2011, 07:35 AM
Live to learn. . .
Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
1,489 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
Do you mean a good 2S motor and a 3S conversion later? I would rule out a battery problem first. Are you charging your batteries too fast? It could be that you are less able to draw current on demand.

To give an update, I have finally fixed my 4F200 and flew another 4 flights before one of the heads stripped off from the swashplate. I suppose I have been warned before about this. It seems that the leg has fractured inside the swashplate and I will have to replace the swashplate completely. This is definitely getting expensive.

I found that turning the ail/ele extent pot down and putting in a bit of exponential helped a lot. After a couple of flights, I removed the Trex blades and put the stock blades back on and it flew much better. It seems the Trex blades were providing much more lift and this made the controls more sensitive than the stock blades. My main problem now is to get it to take off without striking the blades. I am quite safe with it once it is in the air.

I just hope eventually that I will get to the point when I can scores of flights without it being interrupted by some events.
Oops! I was up too late last night. Please add 1S to my last post.

Bummer about your swash woes. You guys are going to scold me, but I had one strip a while ago after a hard crash, and I go 50 more flights out of it by JB welding it back in place. I checked it very often, and even after a few crashes it never let loose. I wound up replacing it just 'cause.

I also use some expo. Not sure what to say about your take off instability.

Rafa
Rafa's CB100 is offline Find More Posts by Rafa's CB100
Last edited by Rafa's CB100; Jan 19, 2011 at 12:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2011, 11:22 AM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
371 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
Hi Guys,

I've got some motor questions again. I'm up to 180 packs now, and I'm pretty sure that my motor is going weak again. I replaced the first motor at ~130 packs, so this one didn't do too good.

My symptom is that it's getting weak about half way thru a flight. I'm still flying for almost 5 minutes, bringing my cells down to ~3.78V/cell, but I just feel the 'punch' going away--enough that I'm really careful to not dig myself into a hole near the end of a pack.

I've got new batteries and old batteries, they act the same, so I'm pretty sure it's not a battery issue. I'm fairly sure that things are spinning freely at the end of the flight, since the thing takes a while to spin down after the throttle has been cut off. In fact, it's taking longer to spin down now than it used to. Pretty subjective, huh?

Does anyone know of a good 1S motor option for this bird? I'm cool with doing a 2S conversion later, but I don't want to waste all the batteries I've already got. I'm not looking to do any 3D artistry yet, I just want to be able to dig myself out of a hole--like I useta'could.

Am I asking too much from this poor brushless? What life are others getting out of these motors lately? Do people oil these motors, and if so, with what, and how often? Seems like I've asked a few of these questions long ago, but there wasn't much info out then. Just rechecking (and shopping motors),

Rafa


I am on my second motor too. In my case I think the bearing closest to the pinion was seizing. The shaft was galled and worn quite a bit. This I think will evertually cause the shaft to break. If you have a pinion puller it is pretty easy to take the bearings out an clean/lube.

I am thinking about the next motor too and would like to do a 2S. Maybe something from HK?
ri0grand is offline Find More Posts by ri0grand
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2011, 01:26 PM
"you'll play to live "
Alwayscrash's Avatar
Canada, QC, Montreal
Joined Sep 2009
1,710 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ri0grand View Post
I am on my second motor too. In my case I think the bearing closest to the pinion was seizing. The shaft was galled and worn quite a bit. This I think will evertually cause the shaft to break. If you have a pinion puller it is pretty easy to take the bearings out an clean/lube.

I am thinking about the next motor too and would like to do a 2S. Maybe something from HK?
Try this: http://cgi.ebay.com/4800KV-Outrunner...ts_Accessories
Alwayscrash is offline Find More Posts by Alwayscrash
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2011, 01:39 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
371 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwayscrash View Post
Is that the one you have been using?
ri0grand is offline Find More Posts by ri0grand
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2011, 01:46 PM
"you'll play to live "
Alwayscrash's Avatar
Canada, QC, Montreal
Joined Sep 2009
1,710 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ri0grand View Post
Is that the one you have been using?
yes, i'm using it, start smoother and runs cool with 2S. Have test 3S with "yellow Esc" but motor pinion must be less teeth otherwise HS is scary! CB180 motor pinion can do the job, just use the whole shaft/pinion , no need pinion extracter.
AC
Alwayscrash is offline Find More Posts by Alwayscrash
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2011, 02:33 PM
Registered User
United States, FL, Hollywood
Joined Aug 2010
1,525 Posts
@stretch1100
Here is that indoor hover video of my second brand new 4F200 in the new Big Lama body:
4F200 with Big Lama Body.wmv (1 min 14 sec)

There was some air turbulence in that room; hope to get some video tomorrow if the morning is calm.
Next morning; I am jittery at the controls but it handles well.
4F200BL2.wmv (1 min 45 sec)
urrl is offline Find More Posts by urrl
Last edited by urrl; Jan 20, 2011 at 11:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2011, 02:58 PM
Registered User
stretch1100's Avatar
USA, IL, Elgin
Joined Jan 2006
664 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
Hi Guys,

I've got some motor questions again. I'm up to 180 packs now, and I'm pretty sure that my motor is going weak again. I replaced the first motor at ~130 packs, so this one didn't do too good.

My symptom is that it's getting weak about half way thru a flight. I'm still flying for almost 5 minutes, bringing my cells down to ~3.78V/cell, but I just feel the 'punch' going away--enough that I'm really careful to not dig myself into a hole near the end of a pack.

I've got new batteries and old batteries, they act the same, so I'm pretty sure it's not a battery issue. I'm fairly sure that things are spinning freely at the end of the flight, since the thing takes a while to spin down after the throttle has been cut off. In fact, it's taking longer to spin down now than it used to. Pretty subjective, huh?

Does anyone know of a good 1S motor option for this bird? I'm cool with doing a 2S conversion later, but I don't want to waste all the batteries I've already got. I'm not looking to do any 3D artistry yet, I just want to be able to dig myself out of a hole--like I useta'could.

Am I asking too much from this poor brushless? What life are others getting out of these motors lately? Do people oil these motors, and if so, with what, and how often? Seems like I've asked a few of these questions long ago, but there wasn't much info out then. Just rechecking (and shopping motors),

Rafa
If you take the case off the motor can you feel the bearings making noise? I just put a new bearing in a 2S Scorpion motor I have on my Ufly as it was making noise and I think I've only used the motor a handful of times. Luckily one of the bearings from my V200D01 was the same size. I was a pain in the arse to get it out but was worth the effort. I use tri-flow lubricant on all my helis especially all the bearings.
stretch1100 is offline Find More Posts by stretch1100
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2011, 11:57 PM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2007
8 Posts
Worst servos ever?

I just purchased my 4F200 from Wow hobbies this monday. Get her home, and mate it up to my 2801 and take it out for her maiden flight. Sure enough, the heli goes right (before I get her off the ground) and slap a few blades on the ground before getting her up. I also noticed that my motor is just shaking until I get really into the throttle. Well long story short, I go for my 3rd flight and my speed controller goes out mid flight. I break a landing skid and strip a servo.

So I email Wow hobbies but figure that they will only replace the ESC and not my servo and skid.. fair enough. I order an aftermarket 30a ESC, 3pack of servos, new landing skid and new blades ($100). Well as I'm replacing my "Pit" servo, I manage to strip out my other two servos cause I had pushed on my swash plate. Great.. So now I have no extra servos..

Go for a flight with the new ESC and its flying like a champ. Getting my setting dialed. All is good. Then when I was looking at my new Heli, I noticed that my swash plate seems loose and my front servo is stripped. It seemed like it was flying good but I guess I just lucked out.

So what gives? You can't even turn these servos with out stripping them out? How can they be this delicate? I've crashed my 4g6s, Blade SR and my first Blade Cx2 hundreds of times and at most I've replaced 4 servos. Now I'm on servo #4 in 4 flights?

Oh and I soldered the wires from my stock ESC on the new ESC so I don't have to splice any connectors and WOW hobbies sends me a RMA to exchange my ESC with a new one.. Great.

Just venting.. Love the Heli but so far it really feels like a lemon..

Thanks
Ken

P.s. I also hate to ask a simple question but just like on my 4g6s, how do you adjust the rudder gyro setting?
Hipendicular is offline Find More Posts by Hipendicular
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 20, 2011, 01:26 AM
Registered User
USA, NC, Havelock
Joined Jan 2011
25 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipendicular View Post
I just purchased my 4F200 from Wow hobbies this monday. Get her home, and mate it up to my 2801 and take it out for her maiden flight. Sure enough, the heli goes right (before I get her off the ground) and slap a few blades on the ground before getting her up. I also noticed that my motor is just shaking until I get really into the throttle. Well long story short, I go for my 3rd flight and my speed controller goes out mid flight. I break a landing skid and strip a servo.

So I email Wow hobbies but figure that they will only replace the ESC and not my servo and skid.. fair enough. I order an aftermarket 30a ESC, 3pack of servos, new landing skid and new blades ($100). Well as I'm replacing my "Pit" servo, I manage to strip out my other two servos cause I had pushed on my swash plate. Great.. So now I have no extra servos..

Go for a flight with the new ESC and its flying like a champ. Getting my setting dialed. All is good. Then when I was looking at my new Heli, I noticed that my swash plate seems loose and my front servo is stripped. It seemed like it was flying good but I guess I just lucked out.

So what gives? You can't even turn these servos with out stripping them out? How can they be this delicate? I've crashed my 4g6s, Blade SR and my first Blade Cx2 hundreds of times and at most I've replaced 4 servos. Now I'm on servo #4 in 4 flights?

Oh and I soldered the wires from my stock ESC on the new ESC so I don't have to splice any connectors and WOW hobbies sends me a RMA to exchange my ESC with a new one.. Great.

Just venting.. Love the Heli but so far it really feels like a lemon..

Thanks
Ken

P.s. I also hate to ask a simple question but just like on my 4g6s, how do you adjust the rudder gyro setting?
If you haven't already ordered some servos, I think getting Futaba S3114 servos would be better. I haven't gotten them, yet, but others use them in their helicopter. I've had the same problem, the stock servos for this heli strip easily for some reason. I stripped one the other day, luckily I took it apart and I was able to turn a gear so the stripped part didn't interfere with the other gears.

http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Futaba-S3114-H...item5888b85a96

The rudder gyro setting, I personally just manually adjust it within the transmitter, 2801 pro is what I have. Do you have that or a 2603?
Xextriz is offline Find More Posts by Xextriz
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 20, 2011, 01:29 AM
Registered User
USA, NC, Havelock
Joined Jan 2011
25 Posts
Is this motor http://cgi.ebay.com/4800KV-Outrunner...ts_Accessories worth upgrading, just to upgrade? Is it alot better than the Walkera stock? What else has to be upgraded besides the ESC? The battery?
Xextriz is offline Find More Posts by Xextriz
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 20, 2011, 05:56 AM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
6,248 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by urrl View Post
@Stretch1100
The Lama Fuse was purchased from this eBay link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/BLUE-CABIN-EK1-0...item230c6804ba
Seems to handle well except for that windy day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj6_e...layer_embedded
That video was before the crash on that windy day. I have received a second Big Lama body, repaired the servo damage and would be flying this morning but it is again too windy, at 78 degrees here in Florida. I may post a hover video later inside a building though. If you need some pics on how to install I can provide them.
I almost had a heart attack as that heli was flying towards me in that video. I hope the person with the video camera is alright!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipendicular View Post
I just purchased my 4F200 from Wow hobbies this monday. Get her home, and mate it up to my 2801 and take it out for her maiden flight. Sure enough, the heli goes right (before I get her off the ground) and slap a few blades on the ground before getting her up. I also noticed that my motor is just shaking until I get really into the throttle. Well long story short, I go for my 3rd flight and my speed controller goes out mid flight. I break a landing skid and strip a servo.

So I email Wow hobbies but figure that they will only replace the ESC and not my servo and skid.. fair enough. I order an aftermarket 30a ESC, 3pack of servos, new landing skid and new blades ($100). Well as I'm replacing my "Pit" servo, I manage to strip out my other two servos cause I had pushed on my swash plate. Great.. So now I have no extra servos..

Go for a flight with the new ESC and its flying like a champ. Getting my setting dialed. All is good. Then when I was looking at my new Heli, I noticed that my swash plate seems loose and my front servo is stripped. It seemed like it was flying good but I guess I just lucked out.

So what gives? You can't even turn these servos with out stripping them out? How can they be this delicate? I've crashed my 4g6s, Blade SR and my first Blade Cx2 hundreds of times and at most I've replaced 4 servos. Now I'm on servo #4 in 4 flights?

Oh and I soldered the wires from my stock ESC on the new ESC so I don't have to splice any connectors and WOW hobbies sends me a RMA to exchange my ESC with a new one.. Great.

Just venting.. Love the Heli but so far it really feels like a lemon..

Thanks
Ken

P.s. I also hate to ask a simple question but just like on my 4g6s, how do you adjust the rudder gyro setting?
Ken, your experience is similar to mine. I have stripped 3 servos just by touching them. Not only that, I have encountered lots of other problems in the 18 flights so far. There were 2 occasions when the main gear pin shattered while still in the main gear leaving the rotor spinning freely. Just yesterday, a ball stripped off from my swasplate. I am not sure how I can prevent these but I am determined to get it right.

The servos for the V200 / CB180 series will work. Although they are supposed to be the same, somehow they do not seem to strip as easy as the ones in the 4F200.

The most important right now for me is to get it to take off right. Just a blade strike on take off can lead to damaged blades and stripped servos.

Derek
zadaw is online now Find More Posts by zadaw
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 20, 2011, 08:50 AM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
371 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipendicular View Post
I just purchased my 4F200 from Wow hobbies this monday. Get her home, and mate it up to my 2801 and take it out for her maiden flight. Sure enough, the heli goes right (before I get her off the ground) and slap a few blades on the ground before getting her up. I also noticed that my motor is just shaking until I get really into the throttle. Well long story short, I go for my 3rd flight and my speed controller goes out mid flight. I break a landing skid and strip a servo.

So I email Wow hobbies but figure that they will only replace the ESC and not my servo and skid.. fair enough. I order an aftermarket 30a ESC, 3pack of servos, new landing skid and new blades ($100). Well as I'm replacing my "Pit" servo, I manage to strip out my other two servos cause I had pushed on my swash plate. Great.. So now I have no extra servos..

Go for a flight with the new ESC and its flying like a champ. Getting my setting dialed. All is good. Then when I was looking at my new Heli, I noticed that my swash plate seems loose and my front servo is stripped. It seemed like it was flying good but I guess I just lucked out.

So what gives? You can't even turn these servos with out stripping them out? How can they be this delicate? I've crashed my 4g6s, Blade SR and my first Blade Cx2 hundreds of times and at most I've replaced 4 servos. Now I'm on servo #4 in 4 flights?

Oh and I soldered the wires from my stock ESC on the new ESC so I don't have to splice any connectors and WOW hobbies sends me a RMA to exchange my ESC with a new one.. Great.

Just venting.. Love the Heli but so far it really feels like a lemon..

Thanks
Ken

P.s. I also hate to ask a simple question but just like on my 4g6s, how do you adjust the rudder gyro setting?
When I first got mine i had problems with it wanting to tip on take off. I would try and just correct my way through it with cyclic adjustments. This led to a few blade strikes and stripped servos. I found that if I my trims were not at zero when I linked, the swash would not be level. This was causing my tip over problems I believe. Once I adjusted the linkages so trim wasn't necessary, my tip over on take off problems went away.

People had said the tipover is normal....just take off faster. I don't agree! I say if it starts to tip, STOP. Shut it down and check to see if your swash is really level. If it is tipping over, don't force it....something is probably wrong. I got into the habit of checking the swash BEFORE I take off now. My 4F200 lifts of straight when it is set up properly.
ri0grand is offline Find More Posts by ri0grand
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Another new Walkera! HM 4F200 heli-parkflyer Micro Helis 84 Jan 08, 2011 02:40 PM
Off Site Walkera 4#3 2.4Ghz RTF - Metal Head Version nighthawk0077 Aircraft - Electric - Helis (FS/W) 0 Nov 22, 2009 08:23 PM
Discussion Unique "mixer less" Bell Hiller Head design of the MSR plus Walkera 4#3 Mixer lesss EQMOD Micro Helis 47 Sep 26, 2009 11:59 PM
Discussion 45 Degree Flybar Conversion on a Walkera 4#3 V1 BELL HILLER head EQMOD Micro Helis 13 Sep 01, 2009 11:15 PM
Build Log Walkera 4#3 HH-65 USCG Dauphin--VIDEO 4 Blade head works page6 stevel48 Micro Helis 146 Dec 03, 2008 10:16 AM