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Old Dec 13, 2010, 09:38 AM
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Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
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Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
I had another flight today, making 5 in total all time. I could not take off for another flight again as I found that the shaft was disconnected from the main gear!? I think I was able to retrieve the pin ?part 120, but I don't know how to put it together again. There seems to be another part left in the main gear. I wonder if anybody can help?
.
Hello zadaw,

I'm glad you got the tail sorted out.

I've had the screw that holds the main gear to the shaft break. Once I think I overtightened/overstressed it, and another time, it broke after a blade strike. As an aside, I've also had the screw that hold the head to the shaft start working it's way loose. Both of these screws are on my 'check often' list.

Rafa
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Old Dec 13, 2010, 09:54 AM
Live to learn. . .
Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
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100 flights!!!

Hi Guys,

I'm happy to announce that as of this morning, I have passed the '100 flight mark' with my 4F200! I don't want to make this sound like a 'review', but I'm still diggin' it.

So far, I've replaced several sets of cyclic servos (not in a while, however), tail servo (not in a longer while), a few tail shafts, a few main gears, and some blades.

As for blades, I'm currently using the white plastic Align blades, and I must say that I really like how they shatter on a blade strike. Not that I've lots of blade strikes lately, but my last two have resulted in only broken blades-not broken servos or even stripped main gears.

My last 10 or so flights have been in 7-10 mph winds, and it was a really good lesson. This morning, the air was very still, and the heli felt great. I'm surprised how the heli handles wind very predictabley in the cyclic stick, but it is very inconsistent with collective. Maybe the winds I'm getting here are lots of updrafts, but seems like the heli will climb 10 feet out of nowhere. I've had to adjust the bottom half of my pitch curve from -1 degrees to -2 degrees so that I can pull the heli down. I've also lowered my gyro setting from 70 to 60 degrees when it gets windy, and it seems to not have much tail wag anymore. Any other advice for wind setting?

Oh yeah, I'm also using that yellow esc from rctimer. I really like it, and after having flown in all three of the timing modes, I really like the normal mode, as opposed to the 'soft' or 'super-soft', which puts too much delay in the throttle.

Woo hoo,

Rafa
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Old Dec 13, 2010, 12:01 PM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
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Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
Hello zadaw,

I'm glad you got the tail sorted out.

I've had the screw that holds the main gear to the shaft break. Once I think I overtightened/overstressed it, and another time, it broke after a blade strike. As an aside, I've also had the screw that hold the head to the shaft start working it's way loose. Both of these screws are on my 'check often' list.

Rafa
Hi Rafa, this is what it was, the screw was broken into three pieces, with a small piece left in the shaft.

I have stripped 3 servos already just by examining the head. I have just got to learn not to touch the head.
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Old Dec 13, 2010, 12:12 PM
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Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
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Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
Hi Rafa, this is what it was, the screw was broken into three pieces, with a small piece left in the shaft.

I have stripped 3 servos already just by examining the head. I have just got to learn not to touch the head.
Yup, been down that 3 piece road. It took me a minute to wrap my head around what had happened, since you can see both ends of the screw still in place, yet the gear turns on the shaft.

I'll admit that I also stripped a set of servos by trying to change my first main gear. I forgot to pull off the links from the servos to the swash. I had just read some posts between AC and dkfuji, and dk mentioned having to pull those links--I just forgot. Oops, but lesson learned.

Rafa
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Old Dec 14, 2010, 12:24 AM
Hong Kong
Joined Jan 2010
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Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
Yup, been down that 3 piece road. It took me a minute to wrap my head around what had happened, since you can see both ends of the screw still in place, yet the gear turns on the shaft.
This is just incredible, I have never seen this before. I wonder if anybody knows why this happens with the 4F200? It took me 3 hours to find the cause and fix it. It was also when I stripped a couple of cyclic servos while I was handling the main shaft. I had to remove one half of the main frame.

Anyway, it is flying properly now. I had 4 flights today in calm conditions. It is definitely miles more stable than the Trex 200. The later is very stable to hover but flies around in a very haphazard and unpredictable fashion.

Congrats on your 100th flight! It is a pretty important milestone. You probably took the hard way into CP helis with the 4F200 but if you know how to fly and fix it, you should know how to fly and fix anything.

I am told that if you use idle up and therefore a higher head speed, it should be able to handle wind better. But I have learnt that there are certain windy situations where it is just not worth trying the fly. A 450 sized heli would handle wind a lot better. As easy to fly as the 4F200 is, it is nowhere near compared to my Trex 450 FBL that I am using my 2801pro to control.

Derek
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 12:24 AM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
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I just put a 2702V in my 4F200. In my initial testing it is rock solid. It is night and day compared to the 2612V. I am impressed. No regrets here.
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 05:16 AM
Hong Kong
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Originally Posted by ri0grand View Post
I just put a 2702V in my 4F200. In my initial testing it is rock solid. It is night and day compared to the 2612V. I am impressed. No regrets here.
Correct me if I am wrong, my understanding is that the 2612V is just a receiver with a 3-axis gyro whereas the 2702V is a true flybarless system with advance programming along the lines of the Align 3G. The 2702V is being fitted to the purported "Align killer" V450D01 and also the V500D01.

Although already quite stable in flight, my 4F200 is nowhere near that of my Align 450 3G. My Align 450 is so tame now it is just incredible. I reckoned it had easily reduced by more than 80% the chances of a major crash due to pilot error on my part. A lot of people would be interested in how the 2702V performs in other helicopters.
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 07:24 AM
Live to learn. . .
Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
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Originally Posted by ri0grand View Post
I just put a 2702V in my 4F200. In my initial testing it is rock solid. It is night and day compared to the 2612V. I am impressed. No regrets here.
Dude, that's awesome! Can you give us more detail: is it the same size? was the swap simple? what are the alleged technological improvements? do you set it to 1 servo, or 3? etc, etc, etc . . .. .



In other news, has everyone seen the 4F200's 4-bladed, fixed pitch, 'little' cousin, the 4F180:
http://www.walkera.com/en1/particular.jsp?pn=4F180 ? I think I'm past it now, but it looks kinda cool.

Rafa
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 12:19 PM
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United States, MA, Norwood
Joined Dec 2006
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what are the plastic blades ?

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Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
Hi Guys,

I'm happy to report that with the washers listed above, my heli flies great with those wooden blades. I've got 6 packs on it since the wood blades, and I'm surprised how different it feels. It seems more stable, and the thing this noob notices is that it's easier to take off and touchdown smoothly. Seems like with the stock blades, while landing, it either wanted to hover several inches off the ground, or get sucked to the ground--not much room in the middle of all that. With the wood blades, it's easier for me to land gently and smoothly--for whatever reason.

I've ordered a few sets of the plastic blades to see what they feel like. Here are some links to the spacers, wood blades, and plastic blades. These links were copied from the parts post I did a while back: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=214

Here's some washers that will allow one to use the wood or plastic blades listed below:
P/N 91116A110 at McMaster.com (mcmaster's website doesn't let me post the link like I'm used to)

Here's the wooden blades dkfuji referred to:
http://www.helidirect.com/wooden-mai...200-p-9385.hdx

Here's the plastic blades Alwayscrash uses:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...#ht_1943wt_982

Happy flying,

Rafa
Hi Rafa

Your link for the plastic blades appears not to work. Who makes them and are they foam or plastic?
many thanks
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 12:44 PM
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Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
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Originally Posted by heloguy View Post
Hi Rafa

Your link for the plastic blades appears not to work. Who makes them and are they foam or plastic?
many thanks
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...#ht_1602wt_907

Rafa
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 02:12 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
Dude, that's awesome! Can you give us more detail: is it the same size? was the swap simple? what are the alleged technological improvements? do you set it to 1 servo, or 3? etc, etc, etc . . .. .



In other news, has everyone seen the 4F200's 4-bladed, fixed pitch, 'little' cousin, the 4F180:
http://www.walkera.com/en1/particular.jsp?pn=4F180 ? I think I'm past it now, but it looks kinda cool.

Rafa
The 2702V differs from the 2612 in several ways.

The the 2612V does the CCPM mixing in the reciever which is why the swash settigng is for single servo in the TX. With 2702V, the TX is set to 120 degree 3 servo. I think this is the way most CCPM setups are. The CCPM mixing is done in the TX. Swash Mix on the TX is used to adjust the ele/ail/pit travels. The rudder set up function is pretty cool and makes setting up the rudder travel and neutral easier.

The 2702V is designed for a CCPM 120 degree swash with the elevator servo at the back of the swash This causes the elevator function to be reversed for the 4F200 where the elevator servo is at the front of the swash. By reversing the elevator servo and switching the aileron (ail/pit) servo positions, the elevator function can be reversed to work with the 4F200 swash. However this causes the pitch function to be reversed also. I reversed the pitch curves to reverse the pitch function. There may be another way but that is what I did. Since the CCPM mixing is done in the TX, servo reversing on the TX changes the individual servo direction not CCPM function (i.e. pitch).

The 2702V only works with digital servos. I use Futaba 3154s for cyclic, and Ino-Labs HG-D201HB AL for the tail.

The 2702V is larger than the 2612V and the servos plug in on the end. When mounted on the 4F200 receiver tray, it overhangs the tail servo but there is plenty of area for the adhesive servo/gyro tape to securely hold it down. If you look at pictures of the V450 you will see the RX hangs of the back of the tray as well. I used some clear silicone stuff I picked up at the LHS. I used a few layers to make sure it cleared the top of the tail servo.

The 2702V needs more set up than the 2612V as you already know. The RX learns the TX travel/end points in the setup process. It isn't complicated if you know how to do it. I don't think you would ever figure it out without the instructions though.

The tail hold is very solid. I could get the 2612V pretty steady if everything was balanced perfectly, but wind gusts would make it wag some. The 2612V would also wag on a full + pitch punch out. The 2702V is very solid on a full + pitch punch out.

The tail Gyro is very quick. I have the tail gyro sensitivity set an 55% on the TX. The cyclic stabilization is noticibly better also. I left the 2702V sensitivity settings all at 50% and with 40% differential on ail/ele, and 35% on rudder things are really smooth and stable.

My guess is the 2702V may really work pretty well in a T-Rex 250 or 450 as claimed. I am tempted to get a T-Rex 450 Sport, buy a FBL head and use the 2702V.

I am using the 2801 Pro v2.3
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 02:25 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
371 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by zadaw View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, my understanding is that the 2612V is just a receiver with a 3-axis gyro whereas the 2702V is a true flybarless system with advance programming along the lines of the Align 3G. The 2702V is being fitted to the purported "Align killer" V450D01 and also the V500D01.

Although already quite stable in flight, my 4F200 is nowhere near that of my Align 450 3G. My Align 450 is so tame now it is just incredible. I reckoned it had easily reduced by more than 80% the chances of a major crash due to pilot error on my part. A lot of people would be interested in how the 2702V performs in other helicopters.
I don't know at what point one would classify it as a true flybarless system over a 3-axis gyro, but the performance of the 2702V is markedy better than the 2612V. I know some of the high-end fbl setups have a lot of parameters available for fine tuning. This is simpler to set up than those I would guess. So far it seems to perform quite well. My heli flying experience and skills are far from advanced so I can't comment on 3D performance. For the flying that I am capable of, it is a worthwhile upgrade as it makes flying easier due to the improved stability. I know people were griping about the price (relative to previous Walkera RXs), but performance for the dollar I think ther 2702V is hard to match.
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 02:30 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
HeliFlyer711's Avatar
United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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Hey without putting you on the spot, can you give us the real deal on the 2 sets of instructions you recieved. In other words if you bought this RX from Walkera direct and used thier instructions do you think you could have translated this RX just as well as those additional ones provided. My main reason for asking is to figure out if its worth paying extra for, because I can get this RX for cheaper overseas......dont worry I will not quote you I just want some first hand experience from a fellow flyer.

Thanks
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 02:54 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
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Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
Hey without putting you on the spot, can you give us the real deal on the 2 sets of instructions you recieved. In other words if you bought this RX from Walkera direct and used thier instructions do you think you could have translated this RX just as well as those additional ones provided. My main reason for asking is to figure out if its worth paying extra for, because I can get this RX for cheaper overseas......dont worry I will not quote you I just want some first hand experience from a fellow flyer.

Thanks
I haven't ever set an RX like the 2702V before, but I think it would be pretty hard to figure out with out instructions or a manual of some kind. There are several status LEDs (red and green) that indicate what step you are at in the set up, but without knowing the process in advance it isn't easy to decode. There are seperate processes for swash and tail setup.

If Walkera supplied a manual with the RX it be easier. I don't know that Walkera normally supplies instuctions for stand alone RXs. Knowing how the V450 is confugured is an important clue for adapting the setup to your application.

For me getting the instructions would be the only way I would figure it out in a resonable amount of time. An extra $20 for that is a no brainer for me.
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 03:03 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
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United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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I hear you on that, usually they just come in a plastic bag. Walkera is not known for its documentation so I can see that there would be an issue with just the stand alone RX. Now with the V450D01 helicopter, there is a manual. Just how well that manual documents the setup procedure depends on how well you can decode Walkeranese and if your clued up on FBL setups. Im sure at some point there will be a complete setup procedure posted on this RX and the attached heli, be it the 450 or 500. Thanks for the info, and enjoy the flights
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