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Old Sep 19, 2010, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Alwayscrash View Post
May be failure is due to tail servo & after crash Rx may encounter some hard shocks! Vaut mieux l'examiner avant de changer un autre RX, n'est ce pas?
AC
tail servo is OK, but RX is dead. In flight failure !
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Old Sep 20, 2010, 05:15 PM
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I bought this heli barebones and planned to run it on a Tx2801Pro with ver2.2 software. After some problems with the tail gyro not working I found out that I need to run the heli in 2601 mode. The normal flight mode seems to be useable but I can't get any negative pitch in either stunt 1 or 2. Can anyone who also needs to fly in 2601 mode tell me if I'm missing something or you just can't fly in stunt 1 or 2-which will make this combination almost usless to me!
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Old Sep 20, 2010, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rew-7 View Post
I bought this heli barebones and planned to run it on a Tx2801Pro with ver2.2 software. After some problems with the tail gyro not working I found out that I need to run the heli in 2601 mode. The normal flight mode seems to be useable but I can't get any negative pitch in either stunt 1 or 2. Can anyone who also needs to fly in 2601 mode tell me if I'm missing something or you just can't fly in stunt 1 or 2-which will make this combination almost usless to me!
If you bind in 6CH mode you have to alter the swash setting to "3servo" and interchange CH4/5 on the RX

Mick
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Old Sep 21, 2010, 04:37 PM
RC Helis: My Healthy Obsession
The OC, California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rew-7 View Post
I bought this heli barebones and planned to run it on a Tx2801Pro with ver2.2 software. After some problems with the tail gyro not working I found out that I need to run the heli in 2601 mode. The normal flight mode seems to be useable but I can't get any negative pitch in either stunt 1 or 2. Can anyone who also needs to fly in 2601 mode tell me if I'm missing something or you just can't fly in stunt 1 or 2-which will make this combination almost usless to me!
Why do you have to run it in 2601 mode? I have 3 of them running perfectly in 2801 mode. You may have missed something in the set-up somewhere. Maybe I can help you with her. Just pm me if you want.

Darryl
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 04:31 AM
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Im pretty happy with my 4F200 now except for one undesirable querk where it invariably tries to tip on lift off. Its quite stable once airbourne. Is there anyway to dial out this problem, or is it a 3-axis gyro querk as ive seen it on my Ufly as well, now and then. Heres a short video, where I do a few lift offs while crounch down at ground level.

4F200 2 (1 min 40 sec)


Heres another video just buzzing about the yard. Nothing as exciting as some of the other flight video's that have been posted. My 4F200 hasnt really caused me any grief apart from the first 2 swash plate having stripped ball links. The third swash was solid, and ive noted the price of these swashplates have dropped somewhat as well. Ive also fitted a new set of stock servo's after stripping the first set in a take off roll over. Nice little heli, I like it now.

4F200 1 (3 min 57 sec)


Mick
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Bravo47 View Post
Im pretty happy with my 4F200 now except for one undesirable querk where it invariably tries to tip on lift off. Its quite stable once airbourne. Is there anyway to dial out this problem, or is it a 3-axis gyro querk as ive seen it on my Ufly as well, now and then.
Have you flown other single rotor helis? All of them them tip on takeoff to some extent due to the tail rotor producing a tilting force on the ground, the gyro could be exacerbating the effect but I find that a bit odd. It is more apparent in the smaller helis as they weigh less and considerable less apparent in stabilised helis like the CB series or MSR as the head compensates on its own.
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Bravo47 View Post
Im pretty happy with my 4F200 now except for one undesirable querk where it invariably tries to tip on lift off.
Can that be compensated with opposite trim (or even a bit of opposite AIL and ELE input)? (IE, left aileron trim and a bit of up elevator trim?) If that doesn't have any affect, then I'd say you just have to get into the routine habit of lifting off the ground quickly.
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by xviper View Post
Can that be compensated with opposite trim (or even a bit of opposite AIL and ELE input)? (IE, left aileron trim and a bit of up elevator trim?) If that doesn't have any affect, then I'd say you just have to get into the routine habit of lifting off the ground quickly.
Agreed.Adjust right aile linkage a bit shorter than the opposite will compensate heli for rolling.Stock heli is not well balanced that's why i've move Esc's on midle and take off tail boom skids.Also, lack of HS can make heli leaning left when take off
AC
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Alwayscrash View Post
Agreed.Adjust right aile linkage a bit shorter than the opposite will compensate heli for rolling.Stock heli is not well balanced that's why i've move Esc's on midle and take off tail boom skids.Also, lack of HS can make heli leaning left when take off
AC
To test this unlevel swash hypothesis, I would say to disconnect your motor (or use throttle hold), get your pitch to zero degrees, put your pitch gauge on one blade then spin the rotor slowly while making sure that you still have zero degrees thru the whole rotation.

Rafa
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 02:29 PM
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Mick,

I think it is caused by the gyros. It is kind of like the tail on a normal single HH gyro heli when you are spinning up and the rotor torque changes but the tail servo isn't right for perfect tail hold due to the skids drag on the ground. So you end up having to tweek the rudder to get it right just before takeoff. But with three axis HH gyros you have to get all three working right just before takeoff or it will want to tip due to no feedback from the heli just sitting on the ground.

YMMV, Don

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravo47 View Post
Im pretty happy with my 4F200 now except for one undesirable querk where it invariably tries to tip on lift off. Its quite stable once airbourne. Is there anyway to dial out this problem, or is it a 3-axis gyro querk as ive seen it on my Ufly as well, now and then. Heres a short video, where I do a few lift offs while crounch down at ground level.

Mick
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by desertstalker View Post
Have you flown other single rotor helis? All of them them tip on takeoff to some extent due to the tail rotor producing a tilting force on the ground, the gyro could be exacerbating the effect but I find that a bit odd. It is more apparent in the smaller helis as they weigh less and considerable less apparent in stabilised helis like the CB series or MSR as the head compensates on its own.
Ive got around 14 helicopters, 13 are single rotor, and four of that are CP, and none of them behave like this on take. They all drift left on take off which is normal, but they lift off steady and straight up, no tipping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xviper View Post
Can that be compensated with opposite trim (or even a bit of opposite AIL and ELE input)? (IE, left aileron trim and a bit of up elevator trim?) If that doesn't have any affect, then I'd say you just have to get into the routine habit of lifting off the ground quickly.
If it were a trimming issue, it would drift when airbourne. Its quite stable once in the air. The movement in the air in the videos is only my input. Im in the habit of lifting off quickly, thats not a problem for me. Ive got a friend at the flight club though who is just learning CP and has purchased a 4F200 and this tipping on take off will cause him to crash like all new CP pilots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwayscrash View Post
Stock heli is not well balanced that's why i've move Esc's on midle and take off tail boom skids.Also, lack of HS can make heli leaning left when take off
AC
You might have something here. My CG is pretty good north/south but I have not really checked east/west. My head speed is also dialed down a bit, but im pretty sure the tip characteristic was there when I had a full throttle curve in the past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
To test this unlevel swash hypothesis, I would say to disconnect your motor (or use throttle hold), get your pitch to zero degrees, put your pitch gauge on one blade then spin the rotor slowly while making sure that you still have zero degrees thru the whole rotation.

Rafa
I'll try this out, but im still thinking if I had a swash issue the heli would not be stable in a hover. Its almost hands free, little input required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbennettya View Post
Mick,

I think it is caused by the gyros. It is kind of like the tail on a normal single HH gyro heli when you are spinning up and the rotor torque changes but the tail servo isn't right for perfect tail hold due to the skids drag on the ground. So you end up having to tweek the rudder to get it right just before takeoff. But with three axis HH gyros you have to get all three working right just before takeoff or it will want to tip due to no feedback from the heli just sitting on the ground.

YMMV, Don
This is my theory also, as the problem is exagerated when the heli vibrates on a basketball stadium floor during spin up while aquiring CG. The heli can just tip over to the point of blade strikes floor without take off.

I'll keep working on it. Thanks for all the input. It gives me quite a bit of food for thought.

regards


Mick
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 03:59 PM
RC Helis: My Healthy Obsession
The OC, California
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Part of your issue may be the vibration you get on the floor. With the Walkera 3 axis gyros, if you have a vib, they tend to wander one direction or another depending on the vibration. I have my helis vibration free and they lift off relatively straight up. Balancing this heli is quite a chore due to the 3 main and tail blades. What I did to start with was weigh all of them and choose the heaviest one as a reference point. After that it was just trial and error (adding tape to one or the other) until the heli was smooth. You also might want to try replacing the double stick tape under the Rx. Use a vibration absorbing tape that most gyros use. That helped quite a bit. The stock tape is not very absorbent at all.
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Bravo47 View Post
I'll try this out, but im still thinking if I had a swash issue the heli would not be stable in a hover. Its almost hands free, little input required.
My thinking was that if the swash isn't level, the heli will tilt till the gyro has a chance to kick in, then it balances out. I'm curious to hear the results of this test.

Rafa
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dkfuji View Post
Part of your issue may be the vibration you get on the floor. With the Walkera 3 axis gyros, if you have a vib, they tend to wander one direction or another depending on the vibration.
Yeah it could be vibration with these Walkera RX's. When I was learning my Uflys I used to turn off balance mode so it offered a steady lift off. I think i'll make a little bed for the 4F200 like I had to make for the RX-2610s to work in my HBK2.

Does the 4F200 really need a three 3-axis gyro? or could it run with a simple 6CH Esky RX or Futaba Electrics and separate gyro? Im not really sold on the whole 3-Axis assist yet.

Thx

Mick
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Old Sep 22, 2010, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
My thinking was that if the swash isn't level, the heli will tilt till the gyro has a chance to kick in, then it balances out. I'm curious to hear the results of this test.

Rafa
You may have noticed in the video that it shows a forward tip. This varies and is often a port starboard tip. There is nothing consistant with a swash that only errors toward port or starboard etc. I've got two 4F200's with me ATM for cross referance, and both display the same random issue. I'll test out your theory Rafa tonight after work.

Mick
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