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Old Aug 22, 2010, 12:41 AM
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Rafa, when it kicks out, is it always to the same side?
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 12:22 PM
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Never had a CP before and have ordered this one. Is there anything that you really need to check or change from stock on this heli?

also out of curiosity why is it supposed to be set to 1 servo mode when there are 3 servos moving the swash and blades etc.
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by nima944 View Post
Never had a CP before and have ordered this one. Is there anything that you really need to check or change from stock on this heli?

also out of curiosity why is it supposed to be set to 1 servo mode when there are 3 servos moving the swash and blades etc.
At the risk of sounding cliche, I'd say to go back and read this whole thread. Luckily, you are at the beginning of the 4F200 thing and the thread is not that long yet. There is already some great advice on setups and things. There is also mention, several times, to the Finless Bob videos on helifreak. If you are new to CP, as I am, these videos will clarify lots, and probably bring up more questions.

Where did you get your bird from? Did it come BNF or RTF? Wow recommends checking the balls at the swash for tightness (they loctite them all), they also move the rx antenna away from the tail servo, and tighten the tail blade holder tension a bit, so that the blades no not interfere with each other during binding and cause damage to the tail servo.

Good luck, let us know,

Rafa
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 01:01 PM
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I ordered the heli from ehirobo with the 2801 TX - havent actually got it yet , probably should have said in my first post, but I watched all of the videos and read through the forum. But apart from what you mentioned there is alot of conflicting advice e.g. pitch and throttle curves and what pitch should be at mid stick etc.

thanks for the reply

Edit: what I meant was that I was just looking for subtle changes until the heli flies stable without any problems, after that maybe I can tune something on my own. Just don't really want to mess up.
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Alwayscrash View Post
Rafa, did you try to put all RX's pots as initial stock settings and test, ie: all at center, except rudder-ext is near center.
AC
Hi AC, all pots are stock, except for the balance delay, which I can feel working, and the tail servo extent, which I think you had said that you had to bring down a bit as well. Now you just gave me the idea to reduce my tail servo extent as a band-aid till I get this fixed. Having the heli suddenly switch to L side in from tail in is OK, but if the heli does it twice in succession, I'm suddenly a lot more 'puckered', if you know what I mean. That said, I've managed to land it nose-in a few times without negative consequence.

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Originally Posted by mrschultz02 View Post
If the gyro is in heading hold mode the servo will drift around a little bit and a lot if you move the heli. If you can get it in rate mode then the servo will match the rudder stick when the heli is still. A lot of HH gyros will be in rate mode in the 0 to 50% range, and in HH mode in the 50 to 100% range.

It's easy to check what mode the gyro is in, in HH mode as you move the heli the servo will move and when you stop moving the heli the servo will stay in it's last position, in rate mode the servo will move when you move the heli but go back to it's starting position when you stop moving the heli.

I can't remember if you've tried different gain settings for the gyro, if you have a 2801 TX you can set it so the aux2/gyro switch toggles between 2 preset gyro settings, you can set one position to a low number for rate mode and the other for your normal value for flying.

Basically if you get it in rate mode, with the stick centered and the heli still you can then get the arm to 90 using the sub trims, then move the servo on the boom to get the tail blades to zero angle (or a little bit positive), then check your travel.
I haven't played with the gyro settings at all, but after reading your description, I think I understand HH/rate a bit better. Thanks.

I'm thinking of strapping the heli down to this 'tilt-a-whirl' hip workout deathtrap thing-a-ma-bob turntable thing that my wife has, and seeing if I can reproduce the symptom, maybe even film it. We'll see.

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Originally Posted by JossyRC View Post
Rafa, when it kicks out, is it always to the same side?
Always kicks nose to the left, then won't correct with R rudder. That's why I say I'm losing right rudder. That may not be what is really going on, I don't know. Thanks guys, can't wait to get her back in the air.

In the meantime, I've at least got the TechHead CB100 to zoom around with. Having flown the 4F200 the little bit that I have has given me lots more confidence with the TH. Also, it just seems to take a lickin' and keep on tickin'.

Rafa
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by nima944 View Post
also out of curiosity why is it supposed to be set to 1 servo mode when there are 3 servos moving the swash and blades etc.
I'm curious about this, too. It might be because it utilizes a 3-axis gyro and the gyro does the mixing instead of the TX. This is similar to when you install something like a Flymentor stabilization system. For CP helis, you set the TX for "1 servo" because all the mixing is done by the Flymentor. Having the TX and the RX doing the mixing likely confuses it too much and it could become unflyable.
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nima944 View Post
I ordered the heli from ehirobo with the 2801 TX - havent actually got it yet , probably should have said in my first post, but I watched all of the videos and read through the forum. But apart from what you mentioned there is alot of conflicting advice e.g. pitch and throttle curves and what pitch should be at mid stick etc.

thanks for the reply

Edit: what I meant was that I was just looking for subtle changes until the heli flies stable without any problems, after that maybe I can tune something on my own. Just don't really want to mess up.
I think I'd recommend not messing with the throttle and pitch curves, at least at the very beginning. I did it only because I wanted to play with my pitch gauge. It then turned into several days of mind cramping that I really didn't have to mess with right away. I'm not planning on 3D right away anyway.

Mine flew fine out of the box, just not with 0* at midstick, which is probably not important for your first flight, as you probably won't be trying to change modes anyway. I chose to set it to 0* to keep with the Finless Bob approach, thinking that I may play with 3D some day over the rainbow.

I was given the advice that to make it easier, you can set dual rate at 60-70% (60% is easier), and expo at +30 to +45%(45% is easier). I set mine to 60% and 45% initially, and had started to bring them down when my gyro/rudder symptom got in the way. I think I've got my d/r set to 70% and expo at +35% right now. This might be what you are asking about.

Rafa
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by xviper View Post
I'm curious about this, too. It might be because it utilizes a 3-axis gyro and the gyro does the mixing instead of the TX. This is similar to when you install something like a Flymentor stabilization system. For CP helis, you set the TX for "1 servo" because all the mixing is done by the Flymentor. Having the TX and the RX doing the mixing likely confuses it too much and it could become unflyable.
Yup, I don't understand it either, but I know that it works. I just looked at the 2801 manual, and it says that 3 servo setting is used to run CCPM, which is what this heli uses. Regardless, I know that the heli flies when it's set to 1 servo.

Rafa
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by xviper View Post
I'm curious about this, too. It might be because it utilizes a 3-axis gyro and the gyro does the mixing instead of the TX. This is similar to when you install something like a Flymentor stabilization system. For CP helis, you set the TX for "1 servo" because all the mixing is done by the Flymentor. Having the TX and the RX doing the mixing likely confuses it too much and it could become unflyable.
Sounds like a good reason - makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
I think I'd recommend not messing with the throttle and pitch curves, at least at the very beginning. I did it only because I wanted to play with my pitch gauge. It then turned into several days of mind cramping that I really didn't have to mess with right away. I'm not planning on 3D right away anyway.

Mine flew fine out of the box, just not with 0* at midstick, which is probably not important for your first flight, as you probably won't be trying to change modes anyway. I chose to set it to 0* to keep with the Finless Bob approach, thinking that I may play with 3D some day over the rainbow.

I was given the advice that to make it easier, you can set dual rate at 60-70% (60% is easier), and expo at +30 to +45%(45% is easier). I set mine to 60% and 45% initially, and had started to bring them down when my gyro/rudder symptom got in the way. I think I've got my d/r set to 70% and expo at +35% right now. This might be what you are asking about.

Rafa
OK, so I will keep the adjustments simple to begin with, do the wowhobbies stuff and play with d/r and expo. Thanks for the advice.
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 02:12 PM
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Hi Rafa,
"Hi AC, all pots are stock, except for the balance delay, which I can feel working, and the tail servo extent, which I think you had said that you had to bring down a bit as well. Now you just gave me the idea to reduce my tail servo extent as a band-aid till I get this fixed. Having the heli suddenly switch to L side in from tail in is OK, but if the heli does it twice in succession, I'm suddenly a lot more 'puckered', if you know what I mean. That said, I've managed to land it nose-in a few times without negative consequence."

Heli does it twice? If you land it and start over does it have the same problem? looks like something bad among belt drive-belt pulley, are there some missing teeth.....? seems that problem occurs since the last time you have tail crash.
Mine flew well since i own it and never have problem even i've tinkered a lot! one time when i replace stock blades with plastic one & by distraction i've put one of them in the wrong direction but heli still fly well only making a lot of noise,LOL!
Also, did you try to reset tail servo to initial? flip off the no 1 dip switch on RX to: adjust(1) and see if servo arm is centered? after that remember to switch it back again on "Walkera" position.
Hope you can join the sky sooner.
AC
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 02:45 PM
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Cost effective?

Hi all,

I thought about possibly getting a 4F200 but since I already have a T-Rex 250SE I looked at the repair cost of each.

Considering the following:
..........................T-Rex....4F200
Feathering shaft.....2.50.......4.00
Main shaft.............3.00.......6.50
One way bearing.....8.00........N/A
Main gear................N/A......7.00
Main blades..........16.00.....25.00
...........Total........29.50.....42.50

So maybe it would be more cost effective to build a T-Rex 250SE with a RX-2612V???? Anybody try this yet???

Thanks, Don
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by dbennettya View Post
So maybe it would be more cost effective to build a T-Rex 250SE with a RX-2612V???? Anybody try this yet???

Thanks, Don
I'm watching this thread because I have this in mind.
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 03:53 PM
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dbennettya
How about FBL rotorhead? Also I'm using cheap yellow plastic Trex250 main blades on my 4F for 3 bucks/2 pairs + 3$ shipping , they sound quiter and HS is amazing.Just my though.
AC
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwayscrash View Post
Heli does it twice? If you land it and start over does it have the same problem? looks like something bad among belt drive-belt pulley, are there some missing teeth.....? seems that problem occurs since the last time you have tail crash.

Also, did you try to reset tail servo to initial? flip off the no 1 dip switch on RX to: adjust(1) and see if servo arm is centered? after that remember to switch it back again on "Walkera" position.
Hope you can join the sky sooner.
AC
AC, you might win the prize for the day. I never did pull the belt all the way off. In my world (the automotive world), a timing belt is either there and working, or it is broken and broken.

I started turning the rotors by turning on the tail rotor, all felt OK. I then put a bit of tension on the main gear and repeated the test. Suddenly, at a certain spot, I felt the belt slip! I don't have time to pull it apart right now, but I can't wait for the kiddo to go to bed tonight! I'll bet that there are worn/missing teeth on the timing belt. Luckily, I think I have all the parts in stock.

Can someone give me an idea of how tight to tension the belt? Seems like a very subjective thing to have to describe. Thanks again,

Rafa
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbennettya View Post
Hi all,

I thought about possibly getting a 4F200 but since I already have a T-Rex 250SE I looked at the repair cost of each.

Considering the following:
..........................T-Rex....4F200
Feathering shaft.....2.50.......4.00
Main shaft.............3.00.......6.50
One way bearing.....8.00........N/A
Main gear................N/A......7.00
Main blades..........16.00.....25.00
...........Total........29.50.....42.50

So maybe it would be more cost effective to build a T-Rex 250SE with a RX-2612V???? Anybody try this yet???

Thanks, Don

Quote:
Originally Posted by JossyRC View Post
I'm watching this thread because I have this in mind.


This is why I didn't buy the 4F200. Can be very expensive to repair in a crash!
A T-Rex 250 will be much much cheaper to repair.
But Dkfuji is making a two bladed head conversion for the 4F200 which will have
two blades, less parts, and the parts will be cheap to replace.
Also it can use wood blades which will cause much less damage in
a crash compared to CF blades.

Tom
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