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Old Feb 16, 2013, 10:37 PM
Mach One
captain MoMo's Avatar
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post


You can't compare Align to Walkera.... Besides that Align is a Horizon product, who is pushing Align aside and pushing blade forward with the "pro series". Which is looking just as nice as Align. Align is not the best, it's the minimum requirements for reliability. Thats all. Thats all you can expect from Blade too. I expect MUCH less from Walkera. Flybar and Flybarless are not the same.. The gyro is important... The most important actually, especially for 3D. I can't wait to get a beastX on this 4f200 so it will fly right. Others are following my example with the beastX on the V450 agree. The BeastX is better than the Walkera gyro.
Oh yes - BeastX definietly better than Walkera gyro!! Align is represented by Horizon, just like E-Flite is represented by Horizon. They just want to sell products, no matter whos, Align or Blade (i.e E-Flite).

I have owned many helis, including coaxial, fixed pitch and collective pitch. Looking back, comparing what you get from a Walkera product, Blade does not match it. Maybe you are correct in that the 450X will be the one Horizon wants to market the most and provide the money worth. But still, you will be dealing with a plastic heli versus a cnc one (V450). The electronics on the 450X will be better, but not the mechanics.
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Old Feb 16, 2013, 11:49 PM
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United States, GA, Tybee Island
Joined Jun 2012
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Some pics of My 4F200

upgrades are
Carbon Fiber Main Frame
2618V-D Rx
Futaba 3154 X 3 servos
Align DS 420 tail servo
4f180 tail blades cut down to 45mm
RCtimer 30amp ESC
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 01:56 AM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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I decided to take some pictures too, while it's still in good condition from recent maintenance and things. Probably won't stay this clean long.

Upgrades are:

Trex 250 main and tail blades with blade grip modifications from the 4f180
Trex landing skids.
MKS DS470 cyclic servos
Ino-Lab D261HB tail servo with CB180Z tail servo mounts
CB180Z Tail fin set modified and painted.
Castle Phoenix 35 ESC
Turboace 342, 4200kv motor
Battery alarm installed in the nose.
Painted canopy with rubberized interior for durability.
Upgraded from 2612V to 2618V and now im running the 2702V RX/gyro. It seems to work the best because of individual tail end point setup. Gyro seems nicer too, by a small margin.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 07:44 AM
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United States, GA, Tybee Island
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If I may ask what
MM main blades are you using ? And on the blade grip mod do you know where one can
get just the balls for the swash
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 10:08 AM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by layrin2 View Post
If I may ask what
MM main blades are you using ? And on the blade grip mod do you know where one can
get just the balls for the swash

Using the 200mm Trex main blades, 37mm tail blades. As far as i know, you can't buy just the swash balls anywhere. Which ones were you looking for? The short ones? I don't know how the price difference will work out. But the short balls i use on the swash are taken directly off an old broken swash. Though for $20 a new one is a little expensive just for the balls. But if you ruin your current one you might be able to use the new one still if you don't loose the balls. Alternatively you can buy the tail rocker sets.

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Old Feb 17, 2013, 11:49 PM
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Okay, so i had posted recently about the tail rocker screw sheering on me. It happened again. The 1mm screw is just not taking the stress and i think it may have had something to do with the wagging and not holding the tail too. I didn't take a lot of pictures, but you can get the main idea.

#19: 4f200 Tail rocker screw upgrade to 2mm
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 11:21 PM
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Joined Aug 2011
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Recently just found out why my 4f200 tail is not holding as good as hk250clone with upgrade of Rx2618 new receiver.
Until today I was trying to do some checking on the tail servo ball hole.
I was thinking to relocate the lingkage ball closer to servo drive gear may improve the tail holding.
To my surprise when I closer inspect the horn travel for Align DS420 rudder servo,
the Align servo was jitter at 10% rudder stick input.
With gyro holding mode same jitter happen when servo is travel around 10%.
This is really surprise me with the reputation Align digital servo use for rudder.
I had bought 2 DS420 servo, first one got burn on 250 clone and this is the 2nd pcs fail with jitter ouput. The Align servo was install together with Rx2618 upgrade. It was first holding ok only but not as good as other 250clone.
Then the tail start having some little soft wagging after some flights.
Will never bought Align servo again, cost so much yet poor performance.

I had 4 inolab install on all clones, none of them has fail yet.
Will see how does it perform on 4f200 with rx2618 receiver.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 01:04 AM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tovin View Post
Recently just found out why my 4f200 tail is not holding as good as hk250clone with upgrade of Rx2618 new receiver.
Until today I was trying to do some checking on the tail servo ball hole.
I was thinking to relocate the lingkage ball closer to servo drive gear may improve the tail holding.
To my surprise when I closer inspect the horn travel for Align DS420 rudder servo,
the Align servo was jitter at 10% rudder stick input.
With gyro holding mode same jitter happen when servo is travel around 10%.
This is really surprise me with the reputation Align digital servo use for rudder.
I had bought 2 DS420 servo, first one got burn on 250 clone and this is the 2nd pcs fail with jitter ouput. The Align servo was install together with Rx2618 upgrade. It was first holding ok only but not as good as other 250clone.
Then the tail start having some little soft wagging after some flights.
Will never bought Align servo again, cost so much yet poor performance.

I had 4 inolab install on all clones, none of them has fail yet.
Will see how does it perform on 4f200 with rx2618 receiver.

Align servos are made by Savox. I prefer to buy direct from Savox. Regardless, i find these brands to be the minimum requirements. They are not great, they simply work. In the bigger size 500+ servos. Savox is pretty good. But the 450 size Savox / Align potentiometer is very cheap and ends up developing unfixable slop, which will eventually effect flight. Probably more so on the tail. I think the Savox servo i used on my tail had the same issue. The ino-lab servo is working great for me now. But the speed and torque of it broke the 1mm screw that holds the pitch rocker, two times.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 02:51 AM
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I use HGD201 for 250 size & HGD261 for 450 size.
Both works very well, had more than 100 flights still noslop with the carbon gear.
Much better than metal gear servo.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tovin View Post
I use HGD201 for 250 size & HGD261 for 450 size.
Both works very well, had more than 100 flights still noslop with the carbon gear.
Much better than metal gear servo.
Oh yeah, metal gear servos are absolutely useless on a tail servo. With Align/Savox servos. The slop is not from the metal gears though. But metal gears usually do have more slop. The align/Savox servo just have a very cheap potentiometer. The potentiometer goes bad at one point or even whole section's of the sensor's contact path. Those bad parts on the contact path will jitter the servo. I have not, and i don't know anyone who has stripped a tail servo in a crash. It's pretty damn rare. You'd have to stick the blade grip in the ground and twist or something, it wouldn't be easy. Not to mention metal gears are heavy, no point in having that either, right?
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 08:08 AM
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Well, i finally got to go out yesterday after work and put 3 packs though the 4f200C at the field. It was gusting up to around 17 mph at times. But it was pretty calm compared to the last few days prior. The tail on my heli is basically setup for near zero pitch. I don't think i needed too anymore, but i have it a few twists so the tail is mechanically pitched slightly to the right. So far the 2mm tail rocker bolt is holding and the heli is flying great. I have to say the 2702V is working pretty decent. But it still doesn't fly as smooth as my beastX helis. But it's ripping pretty good now.


4F200C - 3D flight 01 - 02-18-13 (4 min 11 sec)


4F200C - 3D Flight 02 - 02-18-13 (3 min 57 sec)


4F200C - 3D Flight 02 - 02-18-13 (3 min 57 sec)



And then later on, after a flight i slapped the tail on my X5 and had to fix 1 of the gears. Could be worse, but i got in two flights before it happened. The irony is flight 199 went fine, but right at the end of flight 200 i take the tail gear out!
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 12:44 PM
Mach One
captain MoMo's Avatar
Joined Apr 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Oh yeah, metal gear servos are absolutely useless on a tail servo. With Align/Savox servos. The slop is not from the metal gears though. But metal gears usually do have more slop. The align/Savox servo just have a very cheap potentiometer. The potentiometer goes bad at one point or even whole section's of the sensor's contact path. Those bad parts on the contact path will jitter the servo. I have not, and i don't know anyone who has stripped a tail servo in a crash. It's pretty damn rare. You'd have to stick the blade grip in the ground and twist or something, it wouldn't be easy. Not to mention metal gears are heavy, no point in having that either, right?
I did the impossible and stripped my tail servo on a crash that landed on the tail. Completely stripped the gears and all.
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Old Feb 19, 2013, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by captain MoMo View Post
I did the impossible and stripped my tail servo on a crash that landed on the tail. Completely stripped the gears and all.
Last few times I thought I would have stripped a tail servo. Instead of the servo stripping the plastic tip on the linkage rod broke first. one time I even had the rocker break on my 450. No servo damage. it always seems to be absorbed by the rudder rod or other parts break first. It's not impossible, it's just so unlikely it's just not worth worrying about. like terrorist attacks, or gun violence.
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 11:05 AM
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I just found out why my tail of the 4f200 was wagging:
The tail servos seems a little to slow. I mounted the ball-link 1 hole closer to the servo, tail wags more (servo needs to move more for same tail-pitch than ball-link in mid-posititon).

Now mounted the ball link 1 hole to the outside and tail much better (only had a few minutes in the back-garden before it became to dark to test). Servo needs to move less than mid or inner position, so is quicker....

Of course you alway have to change the tail-ext pod on the rx. At the inner position i had to go to max position at tail ext.

Perhaps this could help you to reduce tail-wag on your 4f200
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by addifromgermany View Post
I just found out why my tail of the 4f200 was wagging:
The tail servos seems a little to slow. I mounted the ball-link 1 hole closer to the servo, tail wags more (servo needs to move more for same tail-pitch than ball-link in mid-posititon).

Now mounted the ball link 1 hole to the outside and tail much better (only had a few minutes in the back-garden before it became to dark to test). Servo needs to move less than mid or inner position, so is quicker....

Of course you alway have to change the tail-ext pod on the rx. At the inner position i had to go to max position at tail ext.

Perhaps this could help you to reduce tail-wag on your 4f200
So what you did was increase the mechanical gain on your tail at the cost of resolution. The downside is that if your servo develops any slop it'll be magnified by the additional mechanical gain and you'll get wagging, also it may run the servo hotter because it has to work harder to move the tail. Try some backward flight and let us know if you get wag or drift!
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