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Old Jan 02, 2013, 02:09 PM
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Just did some research. The motors of the 4f and the v200d03 are exactly the same. For the v200 with 12 pinions for the 4f with 18 pinions
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by addifromgermany View Post
Just did some research. The motors of the 4f and the v200d03 are exactly the same. For the v200 with 12 pinions for the 4f with 18 pinions
Yeah, i've always figured they were the same motor with different model numbers. They look the same and are the exact same size and shape.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 09:58 PM
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Okay, i just bit the bullet and dropped $100 on stuff for the 4f200. But before i continue. Can anyone tell me anything about the parts that DKFuji used to convert his 4f200 to two blade rotor back at the beginning of this thread? I know it's not the V200 rotor. And i don't want to use the V200 rotor because it uses 5mm blade roots. I want to be able to use Trex 250 blades that i use right now, without having to use spacers on a two blade rotor.



Okay, so i went ahead and looked around some. For the cost, if this turbo ace motor really is 4200kv @ 3S, that should be screaming. I don't know if the pinion supplied with it will mesh properly or not. But i'm hoping i can force my 17T pinion off of the stock 4f200 motor onto the 2.3mm "keyed" shaft. 0.3mm is not a big difference and i think i can press it though with a vice and it should "cut" it's own path in the brass. Hopefully. I don't really know what to expect with that. So i'm holding off ordering any pinions yet. If everything works out right i should be pushing a steady 4500 rpm, nominal. About 4700 rpm at the beginning of the flight.


So this is the motor i ordered. It's a 4200kv 3S motor with a 2.3mm keyed shaft.




This is the batteries i ordered to run it when it's ready. I wanted to order the 1.3 Ah packs, but they were on backorder. I wanted to order the 1.4 Ah packs but they came with Traxxas plugs on them instead of the XT60 connectors and i think they would be just a little bit too long to fit and rub against the elevator servo. . I didn't feel like ordering tips and soldering each pack either. So these 1.0 Ah i did order should do the trick. They weigh in at 97g and should balance the CG fine and more importantly, hopefully they fit! lol.




They had better fit! I ordered 3 of them! These ones here are the 1.4 Ah ones:

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Old Jan 03, 2013, 03:34 AM
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I own a 1.3 3s turnigy nanotec 45/90c and just tried it on the 4f. Itīs very very tight with the canopy but it fits on. So the 1000mah should be no problem, but the 1400mah will be an adventure :-)
Keep us up to date please :-)

Perhaps important for you: The stock motor has 3900KV with a 4200KV motor on 3S the head speed will go up to over 5000rpm with the stock pinion.

As i wrote before i have a litte issue with my 4f. When i fly faster outside my headspeed sometimes suddenly spins up to maximum.

Thats sick on 2s but i had it 2 times with 3s on the stock motor. The problem is that the 4f has a special range of headspeed where the tail beginns to spinn without any chance to controll it. So be carefull and setup at least 2 throttle curves so you can reduce head speed when the tail beginns to spinn.
With my special issue my 4f did not accept the lower throttle curve as she suddenly began to spin. So it was lots of luck that i could land her safely. Even throttle hold did not turn of the motor, i had to reduce throttle step by step with the trimmers on the tx.

That was really very scary. The only positive thing is: Now I know that the head has no problem with over 5000rpm
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 04:28 AM
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I've also had the tail spin problem with a 3S setup. It usualy happens on hard climb outs and pitch pumps and once its starts spinning, there's no way to get it back under control. It must be the extra torque and not the extra headspeed because if you apply the throttle very gently whilst flying, the tail holds ok. It's when you punch it that the tails spins.

To be honest though, I'm not sure if it's because the tail rotor has too much or not enough authority with 3S.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 04:33 AM
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I've also had the tail spin problem with a 3S setup. It usualy happens on hard climb outs and pitch pumps and once its starts spinning, there's no way to get it back under control. It must be the extra torque and not the extra headspeed because if you apply the throttle very gently whilst flying, the tail holds ok. It's when you punch it that the tails spins.

To be honest though, I'm not sure if it's because the tail rotor has too much or not enough authority with 3S.
For me it happend in a normal forward flight without any heavy pitch action
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 04:42 AM
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Did the tail spin with a 2S?
Maybe check that the belt isn't slipping and the pulleys are tight on the shafts?
Are you using the stock ESC?
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 05:45 AM
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Did the tail spin with a 2S?
Maybe check that the belt isn't slipping and the pulleys are tight on the shafts?
Are you using the stock ESC?
Tail holds rock solid with 2s, i am using a roxxy 30amps esc
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 09:34 AM
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In anticipation of the added torque. I installed a new tail drive and tail drive pulley. I already had a new tail shaft and tail shaft pulley installed. I went ahead and replaced the belt because the 4f200 seems to grind belts like nothing.

The way i see it, the torque is too high and the rotor load too high as well. When the extra torque kicks in to "punch" the tail slips and kicks out to the right. Using 2S, to get stable flips and things. In the past i have had to add some mechanical tail pitch to hold the tail in pumps and hard flips. This has served that purpose well. The 42mm Trex 250 tail blades are a little bit wider than the stock blades so they offer more authority, but higher motor load, for the tail.


Just on a whim, since i don't remember what timing setting i had my ESC set to. I went ahead and cranked it all the way up to "high" timing. I fired it up and the HS speed seemed higher. I didn't clock it, but the only thing i changed was the ESC timing. When switching from "normal" to ST-1 or ST-2 i had a pitch curve difference and the heli made a much more rapid pitch change when flipping the switch. Previously the minimal pitch change difference between "norm" and "st-1" was not enough to change the heli's altitude. Now, after changing the timing, the heli JUMPS up or down when i flip the flight mode switch. Of course with the added power and HS i can expect shorter flight times and hotter running equipment. But i might run it like this for a bit and re-adjust my pitch curves and things to match. The reason the difference in flight mode pitches @ "neutral" was because on ST-1 and ST-2 i use "expo" on the pitch curve. Because like you were saying Ben, if you make to hard or sudden pitch changes you can kick the tail. I find that the head speed achieved @ 2S is sufficient. But with the rotor load of 3 blades, it's not consistent enough for 3D. It would probably be much better with 2 blade head. Just reducing the 1 blade on the rotor would probably give an 200-300 rpm increase or more too. Especially higher when in 3D maneuvers, staying more consistent.
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 09:55 AM
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I just did some calculation, when did everything right perhaps a stall on the tail is the problem.
Stall depends a: on speed b: on the angle of the blades

When my calculation is correct the tail blades are spinning with over 580km/h at 3s and 100% throttle...
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Old Jan 03, 2013, 09:12 PM
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I updated the text in a large portion of my 4f200 build log. Mostly in the actual parts build sections. But here is the index to the info and a subscription link too. As i plan on adding to it when i get my new motor and whatever happens to come next.


4f200 - Upgrades, Repairs, Mods, Complete parts build

Click here to Subscribe to this build log!

Index (click for main page):

#1: Front belt drive, belt replacement & tail boom repair.

#2: Experimental motor - Turbo Ace 352 - Motor not so experimental anymore! I use it full time now.

#3: $10 Hobbywing Skywalker 20A Speed Controller

#4: Home made "Glitch Buster" circuit for the 4f200

#5: 4F200 Parts Build - The tail section

#6: 4F200 Parts Build - The Airframe

#7: 4F200 Parts Build- The Rotors

#8: 4F200 Parts Build - The Electronics & Misc Install

#9: 4F200 Blade grip upgrade! Fit standard 250 blades!

#10: Turnigy Battery Canidates arrrive for 4f200 testing

Useful and informative External topic links:

Custom fit Trex 250 plastic blades on 4f200 grips.

Tail rotor blade options and colors

4f200 Battery tray mod by Razorblade

How to: Fix 4f200 tail Wag from worn tail drive gear

Repairing missing motor E-clip with steel wire.

4F200 Modification for Installation of EMAX ES08MD Servos (by razorblade)
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Old Jan 05, 2013, 10:29 PM
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Double posted somehow.
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Last edited by IntegrityHndywrk; Jan 06, 2013 at 08:04 PM.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 05:10 AM
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Very nice bird :-)
Here in germany the weather sucks... nice warm for a german winter but much to wet and gusty that sucks
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 07:33 AM
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Just finish replacing the tail drive parts, hopefully the tail will be better from now.
Also replacing the Emax analogue servo with the digital as 1 of it start jittering from many crashes used for 450.
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Old Jan 06, 2013, 08:19 PM
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Okay so here it is, the first 3D flight attempt with the new 3S 4200kv motor. This thing is a absolute beast now. I am still trying to tune it in how i want it to fly. Sadly i just don't think the gyros are up to the task. I know right now, i will be getting a new gyro for this bird. Maybe a BeastX, but more likely a cheaper Robird or something like that. Right now... It flies, but it's very "tipsy" and responsive. I'm tuning the Gyro and DR/Expo to accommodate the extra head speed and available thrust. As i go i get it more and more tuned in to how i like. But i think i have reached the brick wall of available stability. The asymmetrical 3 blade head seems to throw out an uneven thrust vector from time to time in 3D. Especially with rapid pitch changes like pitch pumps or tick tocks. I think with a 2 blade or even a 4 blade symmetrical rotor head, 3D would be much more stable. Though i'm also confident if it had a BeastX on it, it would be MUCH more stable as well. Though, you won't notice much instability from watching the video. In fact if you fly 3D on a 4F200 at all, after watching the video you'll probably wish your's could fly like this. It's only going to get better from here. I will probably order the Master CP rotor head and try it's 2 blade setup first. For how cheap the blades and things are. It's going to be the cheapest mod i've done as of yet for a walkera anyway. So that will be coming soon too.


4F200 - 3S upgrade Turbo Ace 4200kv motor! (4 min 48 sec)
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