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Old Nov 24, 2012, 03:47 PM
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I have a V200D03 canopy and it fits perfectly on the 4F200. In fact, its exactly the same canopy, just with a different color scheme.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 12:49 PM
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Does someone know what would be a good tuning-motor for this bird, im looking for more punch :-)
Would be nice to have an easy to change soloution
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 02:20 PM
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Last time I checked (4 months ago), there is no motor that performs better than the stock motor with a 2S lipo setup. Stock motor runs at a max 6000KV regardless of what the label sticker on the motor says.

Another option is to run with a 3S lipo setup and a lower KV motor. There are other motors that will fit the 4F200 but they are rated at a lower KV.


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Originally Posted by addifromgermany View Post
Does someone know what would be a good tuning-motor for this bird, im looking for more punch :-)
Would be nice to have an easy to change soloution
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 03:24 PM
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Do you have a suggestion what 3s motor will fit in and brings more punch? I am using a 30a ESC, so i have enough amps for a bigger Motor :-)
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 07:19 PM
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You should be aware when converting to a 3S lipo setup that you'd have to find a motor that is rated at handling 3S (11.1V), can fit the 4F200 and then there is the trouble of the pinion gear. The pinion gear mod needs to be a certain number of which I don't know off the top of my head. Plus the pinion needs to have less teeth on it versus the stock 17 tooth pinon. Maybe 15 or 14, not sure what the magic number of teeth is that you would need. Otherwise your main rotor head speed would be insane scary. If you're lucky, you be able to find a 3S motor that has the same shaft diameter as the stock one so that you can install the stock pinion onto the 3S motor you find. And then of course, you'd have to find batteries that are of the right capacity, fit and weight.

Search back in this thread for "mystery" brand motor where one of the guys used a mystery brand motor with 3S setup.

Or you could buy the motor that is used on the Walkera V200D03 which is a 3S motor and it may come with the exact pinion you need pre-installed.

It may be premature advice to go with 3S setup. In your tuning effort for more "punch" have you tried lubing your bearings? What 2S battery are you currently using with your 4F200? And how new or old is that battery? Do you know how many flights you have on it? Reason I ask is did you want to try experimenting with a higher capacity 2S battery? That may offer you noticeable extra punch.

I know these are a lot of questions but there are many things you can try before converting to a 3S setup. It certainly sounds like your ESC is ready for 3S. Also you should note there is one fella that has had tail spin issues with his 4F200 after converting to 3S - something to be aware of. Going 3S with the 4F200 may be a hit or miss success/failure adventure.

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Originally Posted by addifromgermany View Post
Do you have a suggestion what 3s motor will fit in and brings more punch? I am using a 30a ESC, so i have enough amps for a bigger Motor :-)
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Last edited by razorblade; Nov 29, 2012 at 07:27 PM. Reason: Added mention of motor pinion gear tooth count.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by addifromgermany View Post
Do you have a suggestion what 3s motor will fit in and brings more punch? I am using a 30a ESC, so i have enough amps for a bigger Motor :-)
Honestly the difference between 2S and 3S, if you follow proper mechanics. You would end up with the same head speed if you set it up right with the right pinion and everything. Like Razorblade was saying. But with the 3S motor you have a more consistent output in 3D. Less bogging of the motor. This is why the 4f200 has a 2S pack i think. Because it was never intended to be a 3D machine. Just a really nice collective pitch "scale" type "pod & boom" helicopter. So 3D is obviously better to have a 3S setup. But it's not required for light 3D.

This is the motor i was going to try but it's been out of stock for a while over at wow.



This motor is probably pretty good, but i have not tried it yet. I also am unsure about the pinion right off hand. But like Razorblade said. If you look WAY back in this thread you can find a post or two by DKfuji where he says what motor he used, i think. There are a few posts about 3S conversion.


I'm pretty sure my personal problems lately with this heli are related to my cheap $9 ESC which may be going bad already. I've flown loads of flights on it. Or, i installed my original stock motor again trying to get the original power output back. Since i was using the 2S version of the above turbo ace motor. It ran MUCH cooler in the summer heat here. But it was about 200 rpm shy of the stock motor even with a 18T pinion installed. But it was enough for me. Lately i can't keep the thing in the air. Since my last crash like 2+ weeks ago no one has stocked 4f200 gears in the US. No one has any v200 gears in stock either. Maybe one day i'll get it back together. But it's just too expensive to fix and parts are too far and few between.

Anyone know US vendors besides wow and helidirect and clubheli that carry Walkera? It's honestly like wow is the only ones stocking Walkera in the US anymore... Jeez, i hope i didn't influence that too much. If i did, talk about shooting yourself in the foot!
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:15 PM
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For those who wish to stay with a 2S lipo setup on the 4F200 and would like to add little more "punch", here is the path I took:
Stay with the stock motor as long as you can until there are no more stock motors in production. Get a higher capacity lipo. A higher capacity battery will also run cooler too. Modding the battery tray will give you more room for a lipo. Get an ESC that is rated at least 25A. Keep your heli lubed up and follow IntegrityHndywrk's advice on heli lubing. Keep your heli tuned and vibration free as much as possible.
About two or three months ago I purchased a Duratrax Onyx 2S 2000mah 25C Lipo from my LHS to try out. You'd need to modify the battery tray to get that lipo to fit under the 4F200 canopy. In flight while doing mild 3D maneuvers there is a noticeable difference in performance and flight time. Its not a significant difference that would cause me to say "night and day difference" but it is noticeable performance-wise. As for flight time, there's a huge difference. I was getting 6 to 6.5 minutes flight time and this is while doing constant mild 3D maneuvers. I was only getting 3.5 minutes to 4.25 minutes flight time when using the stock lipo or the Gens Ace 1550mah 25C lipo.

Another note. The stock motor is capable of drawing a maximum of 21A from the ESC if the stock battery and ESC can keep up. I data logged that number using a Castle Phoenix ICE 50A ESC.

There is another 2S lipo from Align that I have not tried yet. Its a 2S 1900mah 40C lipo part# HBP19001. I received this information from another rcgroups member that PM'd me. He purchased one to try out. I have to get in touch with that fella to get some feedback.

Or if you'd rather go with a 3S lipo setup, then you have some work ahead of you down that path too. So I see it as either way, there's money to be spent and modding to do.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:23 PM
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I just built my list of sites that carry Walkera 4F200 Parts and ship from a USA warehouse. I counted 8 different sites. This is including the ones you mentioned. You may have to venture into doing business with some new sites? We all know how much you like doing that. (sarcasm)

Here is my list of USA sites that carry Walkera 4F200 Parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Anyone know US vendors besides wow and helidirect and clubheli that carry Walkera? It's honestly like wow is the only ones stocking Walkera in the US anymore... Jeez, i hope i didn't influence that too much. If i did, talk about shooting yourself in the foot!
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:36 PM
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Does anyone know the mod or module of the 4F200 stock pinion gear? Is it 0.3 or 0.4 or some other number? I thought I knew the number at one point but now I am unable to find any reference to it.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 11:53 PM
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Is this a motor you had in mind for a 3S setup or 2S? Because if you were planning to get it for a 2S setup - don't bother. Honestly, put the money towards something else. Unless its your goal to retire your 4F200 to sport flying , but I suppose its your money. Not my place to say, but, please let a friend at least try to save you some $$$ - (every little bit counts).

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
This is the motor i was going to try but it's been out of stock for a while over at wow.



This motor is probably pretty good, but i have not tried it yet. I also am unsure about the pinion right off hand. But like Razorblade said. If you look WAY back in this thread you can find a post or two by DKfuji where he says what motor he used, i think. There are a few posts about 3S conversion.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addifromgermany View Post
Does someone know what would be a good tuning-motor for this bird, im looking for more punch :-)
Would be nice to have an easy to change soloution
Hast thou considered this?
http://www.wowhobbies.com/hm-180z-z-...motor-1-1.aspx

I installed one of these on my 4f180 to get more "punch." The bird did perform a bit better with this 5200 KV motor.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 12:47 AM
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Yes that is the same Turbo Ace 352 motor that InegrityHandiwork experimented with. You can visit his blog here for his feedback on that motor.

The conclusion was the Turbo Ace 352 motor runs cooler than the stock one but it performed a slight notch lower compared to the stock motor. The stock motor runs super hot to the finger touch. Motor temp is not so critical if you live in Minnesota such as myself. Where as IntegrityHndywrk lives in Florida so motor temp is a critical factor. I believe IntegrityHndywrk even tried different pinions. He will more than likely chime in to fill the details.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopperJack View Post
Hast thou considered this?
http://www.wowhobbies.com/hm-180z-z-...motor-1-1.aspx

I installed one of these on my 4f180 to get more "punch." The bird did perform a bit better with this 5200 KV motor.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by razorblade View Post
Yes that is the same Turbo Ace 352 motor that InegrityHandiwork experimented with. You can visit his blog here for his feedback on that motor.

The conclusion was the Turbo Ace 352 motor runs cooler than the stock one but it performed a slight notch lower compared to the stock motor. The stock motor runs super hot to the finger touch. Motor temp is not so critical if you live in Minnesota such as myself. Where as IntegrityHndywrk lives in Florida so motor temp is a critical factor. I believe IntegrityHndywrk even tried different pinions. He will more than likely chime in to fill the details.
Well, you never know, it might be worth a try when you consider it is an easy bolt on replacement. A higher c battery might help too. If you are looking for an order of magnitude slap your momma improvement, don't stop here.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 02:05 AM
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Thanks for your answers :-)
The next thing i will try is to use my yesterday ordered 1300mah 45c batterys on the 4F.
I had some behaviour usig a 3s battery with the stock motor with extrem reduced throttle in the tx. For a short while everything was fine. Good punch stable flight.
Then suddenly headspeed incrased and the tail began to spin. Using throttle hold helped me to land the bird without damage, but the motor was still spinning on the ground even with throttle hold activated. Using the trimm switches for throttle i was able to slow the motor down and switch it of.
Perhaps this behaviour depends on the low throttle? The esc can handle 2 and 3s setup and the rx has allways its 5Volts out off the bec?
Has anybody found a soloution?

I think the 3s motor of the v200d03 should fit in without problems, the hole mechanic and frame is nearly the same like on the 4f, only the head, tail and rx are different.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by razorblade View Post
Does anyone know the mod or module of the 4F200 stock pinion gear? Is it 0.3 or 0.4 or some other number? I thought I knew the number at one point but now I am unable to find any reference to it.
I'm pretty sure it's 0.3m

To check and be sure you can use this equation:
modul = diameter(in mm) / #teeth


Quote:
Originally Posted by razorblade View Post
Is this a motor you had in mind for a 3S setup or 2S? Because if you were planning to get it for a 2S setup - don't bother. Honestly, put the money towards something else. Unless its your goal to retire your 4F200 to sport flying , but I suppose its your money. Not my place to say, but, please let a friend at least try to save you some $$$ - (every little bit counts).
I thought the subject at hand was 3S conversion? that is a 4200kv 3S motor.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopperJack View Post
Hast thou considered this?
http://www.wowhobbies.com/hm-180z-z-...motor-1-1.aspx

I installed one of these on my 4f180 to get more "punch." The bird did perform a bit better with this 5200 KV motor.
Yeah, like razorblade said. The 352 is actually a pretty nice motor. If your looking to cool the motor and esc down considerably for the summer. As long as your not looking to do harder 3D with the heli, it will do just fine for light 3D and scale flight or maybe light F3C type things. Flips, rolls, inverted flight. No problem with that motor. It really will run much, much cooler too. Of course, as Razorblade and yourself outlined already. A higher C rated battery is really what the stock heli needs. This motor too will benefit from that. But to get the 352 to about the same head speed you will need to order a new pinion for it from Holland or somewhere. Which i can tell you where if you really want to do it. I didn't go past 18T because i felt that was actually sufficient for my flight ability at the time. I'm also sure the motor can handle at least one more gear up to 19T or even 20T. The trade off would probably be more heat and possibly less torque which could mean less consecutive flips/3D maneuvers in a row. Not really sure, but the motor feels like it can handle it pretty good with a good high C pack. But honestly to achieve the same head speed as the stock motor (in reality a 6000kv motor) you need to put at LEAST a 19T pinion on it to get 4500ish rpm. It probably honestly needs a 20T to get it to a more more consistantly high out put throughout the whole flight. Trying to keep it around or above 4400 rpm. I searched far and wide for a better 2S motor than the stock one. Unfortunately, performance wise. There really isn't any out there this small. Surprisingly Walkera has a little powerhouse motor here. A 3S setup you might be able to increase the HS to close to 5000 rpm and still maintain enough torque to do consecutive flips and rolls without bogging out. If your not flying aggressive 3D the 2S will probably be fine for a while. But fast tick-tocks are not really a thing you can do on 2S. At least not many of them. I'm not sure about 3S. I really would like to think it could handle it on a 3S setup.

Here is a quick calculation of how the 352 motor will run should you put a 19T pinion on it.



This is much better than what i was running it at with a 18T pinion. I just started flying my bigger helicopters more and didn't ever feel like ordering more pinions. I recently installed the stock motor again though because of the cooler temperatures outside right now. Here is the calculation for the 18T pinion. you can see i'm lacking head speed and it drops considerably through the flight.





Last one. This is a calculation, roughly for the stock motor and pinion. The actual motor's KV is pretty ambiguous. So this is based on the 6000kv figure. Keep in mind though. Your not supposed to run the 4f200 at 100% throttle, according to the manual i think? /shrug. I'm pretty sure i read that somewhere. I still do it, but i'm sure it said somewhere not too.

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Last edited by IntegrityHndywrk; Nov 30, 2012 at 02:58 AM.
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