HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Sep 24, 2012, 04:17 PM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2011
777 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenVK View Post
I feel the same way completely. I do enjoy working on and modifying helis, probably more than I do flying them which is pretty stressful if I'm honest!

It's just the annoying things with Walkera that are so frustrating. Screws shear off, gears and servos strip, RX's start acting up etc. A few extra Yuan spent on slightly better quality parts would make Walkeras much more enjoyable to own. If I ever buy another one, the first thing I'll do is strip it down completely and re-build it from the ground up with some quality hardware.
That's why I ended up getting an align 250

To add to frustrations:

1. Idiot basketball players who can't wait 30 seconds to let me set the heli down before running out infront of my V200.
2. Flying a heli that you KNOW is having motor issues and then crashing it because of the motor issues.
3. Gusty winds. Honestly, I don't think Tucson has such thing as a "steady breeze".
4. Cleaning bug splats off of white blades.
5. Walkera's heli's life spans.
TucsonFlyer is offline Find More Posts by TucsonFlyer
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Sep 24, 2012, 07:51 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
7,338 Posts
Well the wind and gusts are just something i have to live with being off the coast. But now that my skills are improoved to where visual orientation is not as important and i don't need to be in such a big open area, I'm looking for a smaller spot to fly with more trees blocking around it. There isn't much else to do about it. Otherwise i just need a bigger heli so i don't even feel the wind moving the heli even in 3d, Especially in 3d actually.


Anyway, I got the laser tachometer that Razorblade recommended for real cheap. The laser/photo tachometer. It works really well. Except for the safety factor of it. I didn't realize that it was going to require lateral line of sight to get a reading. I should have expected this having build a few laser systems in the past. DOH. So you absolutely must strap the heli down. No flubbing it on a 50% pitch spool up and trying to take a reading before take off from an angle or anything like that. Not a big deal. But i still cannot determine where the best placement of the reflective tape should be for a true accurate HS reading. Surely there is a position in the blade length that rotor rpm is taken generally? I would assume the tips of the blades or the root of the blades/blade grips. Without going into a physics lesson for everyone (i'm trying not to anyway) the inside track of the rotor will spin much faster than the outside track. So from root to tip you could get varying RPM readings of a few hundred units difference. Especially as you get into 450 and bigger heli. Which is what i am particularly using it on right now. Does anyone know about the true method of measuring RPM? I would assume even the optical photo tachometers are similar.
IntegrityHndywrk is offline Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 24, 2012, 10:18 PM
Registered User
razorblade's Avatar
United States, MN, Coon Rapids
Joined Feb 2012
310 Posts
I've measured head speed using both the Castle Creations Phoenix ICE 50A ESC data logging feature and this laser tachometer both with similar results.

The laser tach readings I took were with the main blades off and applying the reflective tape to the blade grips. Make sure you're your throttle curve allows 100% at max throttle. You're measuring the Rotation Per Minute of the head so this will give you the reading you desire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Anyway, I got the laser tachometer that Razorblade recommended for real cheap. The laser/photo tachometer. It works really well. Except for the safety factor of it. I didn't realize that it was going to require lateral line of sight to get a reading. I should have expected this having build a few laser systems in the past. DOH. So you absolutely must strap the heli down. No flubbing it on a 50% pitch spool up and trying to take a reading before take off from an angle or anything like that. Not a big deal. But i still cannot determine where the best placement of the reflective tape should be for a true accurate HS reading. Surely there is a position in the blade length that rotor rpm is taken generally? I would assume the tips of the blades or the root of the blades/blade grips. Without going into a physics lesson for everyone (i'm trying not to anyway) the inside track of the rotor will spin much faster than the outside track. So from root to tip you could get varying RPM readings of a few hundred units difference. Especially as you get into 450 and bigger heli. Which is what i am particularly using it on right now. Does anyone know about the true method of measuring RPM? I would assume even the optical photo tachometers are similar.
razorblade is online now Find More Posts by razorblade
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 25, 2012, 05:00 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
7,338 Posts
I found a 4f200 and 2603 Tx on ebay for $160 if anyone is interested. I think someone said they were looking for one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4F200-Helico...item337c577189
IntegrityHndywrk is offline Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 25, 2012, 08:05 AM
Registered User
BenVK's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Enfield
Joined Jan 2012
1,097 Posts
Decided to delete my Devo8 settings for the 4F200 and start again. Maybe there was some weird glitch somewhere.

Can someone suggest a not too aggressive Idle up pitch and throttle curve for me please? I'm just getting used to sport flying right now, no 3D yet. Also, with pitch set at zero at mid stick, where do you guys find that the stick is whilst hovering? 3/4?
BenVK is offline Find More Posts by BenVK
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 25, 2012, 09:34 AM
Registered User
United States, ND, Bismarck
Joined Mar 2012
304 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
I found a 4f200 and 2603 Tx on ebay for $160 if anyone is interested. I think someone said they were looking for one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4F200-Helico...item337c577189
Thanks Integrity, I did see that one on ebay actually. I was hoping to find one without electronics though because I want to use a 2702v and 3s power. Seems like a good price though, although a couple 4f200's have sold for ~$100 on ebay.
flint723 is offline Find More Posts by flint723
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 25, 2012, 09:40 AM
Registered User
Joined Oct 2010
1,298 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenVK View Post
Decided to delete my Devo8 settings for the 4F200 and start again. Maybe there was some weird glitch somewhere.

Can someone suggest a not too aggressive Idle up pitch and throttle curve for me please? I'm just getting used to sport flying right now, no 3D yet. Also, with pitch set at zero at mid stick, where do you guys find that the stick is whilst hovering? 3/4?
Throttle is kind of subjective but start at about 75% Throttle and work your way up or down....if you're not doing 3d just have it set for about 0 and linear up to 75% and on your pitch (normal only) go from 40%(low) to about 80%(high) linear.

This will give you a little negative pitch for the wind and enough positive pitch to get you out of trouble. You should also try adding about 15-20% expo this helps with the shakes and possible twitchy feeling you may get. Those are just some baseline settings, play with them until it feels right for you.
pmerritt is offline Find More Posts by pmerritt
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 03, 2012, 02:07 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
2,997 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenVK View Post
Decided to delete my Devo8 settings for the 4F200 and start again. Maybe there was some weird glitch somewhere.

Can someone suggest a not too aggressive Idle up pitch and throttle curve for me please? I'm just getting used to sport flying right now, no 3D yet. Also, with pitch set at zero at mid stick, where do you guys find that the stick is whilst hovering? 3/4?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmerritt View Post
Throttle is kind of subjective but start at about 75% Throttle and work your way up or down....if you're not doing 3d just have it set for about 0 and linear up to 75% and on your pitch (normal only) go from 40%(low) to about 80%(high) linear.

This will give you a little negative pitch for the wind and enough positive pitch to get you out of trouble. You should also try adding about 15-20% expo this helps with the shakes and possible twitchy feeling you may get. Those are just some baseline settings, play with them until it feels right for you.
I have my NORM THROTTLE curve set at:
L=0
1=40%~50%
2=70%
M=75%
3=75%
4=75%
H=80%
EXPO=ON

I agree with the PITCH curve of pmerritt.
thwaitm is offline Find More Posts by thwaitm
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 07, 2012, 09:28 PM
Moving Parts
ChopperJack's Avatar
United States, MS, Columbus
Joined May 2011
1,428 Posts
My latest project is modifying my Walkera 4f200 with HM-Airwolf200SD5 five blade head. It is very difficult to find parts. I now know why the 200SD5 goes for around $600 without transmitter. The blade grips alone sell for about $32.50 each!
ChopperJack is offline Find More Posts by ChopperJack
RCG Plus Member
Old Oct 08, 2012, 12:15 AM
Registered User
razorblade's Avatar
United States, MN, Coon Rapids
Joined Feb 2012
310 Posts
Align TREX 450 PRO DFC

My latest project: Align TREX 450 PRO DFC

(more details here)



Sadly , I had to take the AR7200BX and install it on the 450. This means the stock 2612 receiver will be restored to its original location. On the 4F200, that is.
razorblade is online now Find More Posts by razorblade
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 08, 2012, 12:43 AM
Registered User
razorblade's Avatar
United States, MN, Coon Rapids
Joined Feb 2012
310 Posts
I looked at that. $32.50 has to be for a set of five blade grips. I also noticed there are two versions; professional and deluxe. With deluxe having a more detailed and scale look - also costs a bit more for that extra scale look. I think just having 5 blades looks scale enough to me.

Indeed the cost can add up quickly after adding the main blades $21.95 + swash plate $20.45 + rotor head $17.55 + main shaft $12.75 + feathering shafts $3.95 + shipping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopperJack View Post
My latest project is modifying my Walkera 4f200 with HM-Airwolf200SD5 five blade head. It is very difficult to find parts. I now know why the 200SD5 goes for around $600 without transmitter. The blade grips alone sell for about $32.50 each!
razorblade is online now Find More Posts by razorblade
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 08, 2012, 03:49 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
7,338 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorblade View Post
My latest project: Align TREX 450 PRO DFC

(more details here)



Sadly , I had to take the AR7200BX and install it on the 450. This means the stock 2612 receiver will be restored to its original location. On the 4F200, that is.
That is looking nice. I just don't like Align or basically any of the 450 designs. They all seem problematic. You better read up on pinning your tail boom so it does not fly off! I'm sure a lot of these "issues" are addressable and everything. I just feel the need for a slight bit bigger heli. I can't quite afford to maintain or even purchase a 700 or X7 really. But the X5 is hopefully coming my way soon.

I'm selling both of my v450s now too. I just finished them and am about to take pictures and list them on ebay. I need to get away from the 450 and into something bigger with more power output and stability/reliability. So I'm saving up for an Gaui X5 / X7 and eventually an X2 or 250 DFC. I simply don't like the DFC head on anything bigger than the 250. It looks too costly to repair and has been reportedly problematic on their bigger heli. So i'll wait till they get that under control. I'd rather stick with the tried and true FBL head. But i'm sure the 450 DFC is safer, more reliable and less likely to "teeter" than the bigger helicopters. I just don't trust them still till they get the "teetering" issue solved. Perhaps they have already? I have not been watching. The X2 is bigger and looks much better built than the 250. But the blades are expensive and getting parts for Gaui, well it's not the most readily available brand to have. But i can't wait to get away from Walkera. Align, IMO, hardly seems like a step up for me since i'm using basically a Align hybrid 450 right now and don't like it. Almost every part on my heli is interchangeable with or is already using align parts except for the main airframe. Though i'm sure now that EVERYTHING has been replaced but the RX. The crappy Walkera RX and gyros is probably most of the reason why i can't progress with these things and need something that can at least do inverted piros without tipping. Of course i know that Align parts are made better and generally are much better than Walkera. I just have this feeling i'd be happier with a 550/600 or a Gaui X5 over the 450 size in general.

DO NOT FLY YOUR 4F200 ANYMORE!!! I PROMISE YOU THE 2612V WILL COST YOU MORE MONEY THAN IT'S WORTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!




Quote:
Originally Posted by razorblade View Post
I looked at that. $32.50 has to be for a set of five blade grips. I also noticed there are two versions; professional and deluxe. With deluxe having a more detailed and scale look - also costs a bit more for that extra scale look. I think just having 5 blades looks scale enough to me.

Indeed the cost can add up quickly after adding the main blades $21.95 + swash plate $20.45 + rotor head $17.55 + main shaft $12.75 + feathering shafts $3.95 + shipping.
NOPE, each individual grip is sold separately for $32.50 each for the "Deluxe" grips or something like $15 each for the "Professional" grips. It is 100% definitely for each grip. Then each blade grip shaft is sold separately also for $3.95 each individual shaft. BUT, they are the same blade grip shafts sold for the 200SD3 in a 3 pack for $7.15 and also the same as the blade grip shafts for the 4f200 sold for $7.95!


Here are my 2 v450s i just finished building the yellow one from spare parts and the white one is the one i've had for a long time now. Both are for sale:
IntegrityHndywrk is offline Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Last edited by IntegrityHndywrk; Oct 08, 2012 at 05:13 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 08, 2012, 05:05 PM
Registered User
Joined Nov 2011
777 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorblade View Post
My latest project: Align TREX 450 PRO DFC

(more details here)



Sadly , I had to take the AR7200BX and install it on the 450. This means the stock 2612 receiver will be restored to its original location. On the 4F200, that is.
Very nice! How's the geometry without the DFC swash? I like the blue adonized DFC head. How does she fly so far? Compared to the 4F200? My 250 DFC is just worlds different from the V200's handling but I've never flown a 450 DFC.
TucsonFlyer is offline Find More Posts by TucsonFlyer
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 08, 2012, 10:04 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
7,338 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TucsonFlyer View Post
Very nice! How's the geometry without the DFC swash? I like the blue adonized DFC head. How does she fly so far? Compared to the 4F200? My 250 DFC is just worlds different from the V200's handling but I've never flown a 450 DFC.
Ooh man. Good eye. I didn't even realize that he was using the FBL swash. I suppose maybe they are basically the same?

I'm willing to bet with the beastX RX that heli is not even close to how a v200 flies. In fact, it probably flies better than your 250 if your using 3gx. No matter what i say about the align 450. Don't take it the wrong way. It's a damn nice helicopter. I'm just worried about costs after a crash in comparison to some other bigger helis.

On another note. What do you guys think my 4f200 is worth with the turbo ace 352, the old stock motor, a new spare servo set, about 5 batteries, 3 of which are brand new Turnigy packs with only 2 or 3 cycles on them and all the rest of my 4f200 parts, which is not all that much besides a used spare rotor head with CF blades. I probably have a belt or two and a new tail box & boom. Just a few odds and ends. I'm thinking about selling it, but i don't know if it would be worth it or not. It's basically in 100% rebuilt condition with the turbo ace motor and hobbywing 20A ESC.
IntegrityHndywrk is offline Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Reply With Quote
Old Oct 08, 2012, 10:50 PM
Moving Parts
ChopperJack's Avatar
United States, MS, Columbus
Joined May 2011
1,428 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
NOPE, each individual grip is sold separately for $32.50 each for the "Deluxe" grips or something like $15 each for the "Professional" grips. It is 100% definitely for each grip. Then each blade grip shaft is sold separately also for $3.95 each individual shaft. BUT, they are the same blade grip shafts sold for the 200SD3 in a 3 pack for $7.15 and also the same as the blade grip shafts for the 4f200 sold for $7.95!
Actually, the deluxe grip"s" were $26.80 from WalkeraHelicopterSupply.com a few weeks ago. The price has gone up everywhere I can find them except not as much here - $32.50 each. This is the stock grip for the 200SD5.

I thought the 200SD3 and 200SD5 feathering shafts would be the same too. However, they are not. The 200SD3 pack of three shafts are a couple of mm too long. However, all sources were out of stock so I bought 200SD3 shafts hoping they would work and they will after I cut them and the screws off.

The 200SD5 main shaft is too short for the 4f200. I'm planning on removing the head and swash from the 4f200 and installing the 200SD5 head and swash. I fully expect the top two holes to be in the wrong location for five blade phasing but I will jump off that bridge when I get to it.
ChopperJack is offline Find More Posts by ChopperJack
RCG Plus Member
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Another new Walkera! HM 4F200 heli-parkflyer Micro Helis 84 Jan 08, 2011 03:40 PM
Off Site Walkera 4#3 2.4Ghz RTF - Metal Head Version nighthawk0077 Aircraft - Electric - Helis (FS/W) 0 Nov 22, 2009 09:23 PM
Discussion Unique "mixer less" Bell Hiller Head design of the MSR plus Walkera 4#3 Mixer lesss EQMOD Micro Helis 47 Sep 27, 2009 12:59 AM
Discussion 45 Degree Flybar Conversion on a Walkera 4#3 V1 BELL HILLER head EQMOD Micro Helis 13 Sep 02, 2009 12:15 AM
Build Log Walkera 4#3 HH-65 USCG Dauphin--VIDEO 4 Blade head works page6 stevel48 Micro Helis 146 Dec 03, 2008 11:16 AM