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Old Sep 18, 2012, 01:01 PM
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Hi IntegrityHndywrk, which make of fuselage is that? It looks fantastic mate!, much better than my effort. I used the Ansmann Sky Taxi one but it was too big so had to cut it down and do a lot of other mods.

The 5 blade head is amazing and what I planned on doing myself but I'm sick of this heli and the V200D03 right now.
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Oh yeah, and that was yesterday. Then today the heli went into a spinning, flipping ball of crazy. Just all in mid fight after trying to go inverted. The tail just started spinning then it started flipping. All of a sudden it just stopped and i regained control and flew the rest of the pack. Seemed like some really crazy gyro spazz because of the wind maybe? It was pretty scary.
This is the reason I'm totaly fed up with my 4F200 and V200D03. I use the RX-2618V-D on both and no matter what I try, they both trip out at random times resulting in out of control piros. It's really frustrating because I'm a beginner and have just recently moved into sport flying in my local park. Before that, they both behaved ok whilst hovering and some gentle forward flight in my back garden. But now I'm pushing then around the sky a bit, they've both gone out of control on me at the worst of times, resulting in heavy crashes and broken parts so I don't trust them anymore. If it wasn't for my V120D02S which contines to fly despite being held together with CA and bits of tape, I would have given up this hobby by now.

I was watching your youtube vids today, I don't know how you've gotten away with some of those crashes without at least stripping some of the stock servos! I don't have any left now, including tail servos, they've all either stripped or just stop working.

Anyway, I'm satisfied that it's not a mechanical problem on either heli. I've gone over all that a million times so I'm stumped as I'm not an electronics guy. Do you have ideas? I've been researching this over the last couple of days and the only thing that I can find that might be the problem is interference or voltage changes to the RX and gyro and it's HH capability. For example, the V200 was ok on my last flight with a 3S 1000mah until I landed and changed to a 1300mah. It then hovered ok for about a minute before spinning out of control and crashing. It's always the tail that blows out despite their being nothing wrong with the tail servo.

I'm just wondering if some of the RX gyros on the 4F200s and V200s are having interference problems because if you think about, they sit in a triangle of servos, Pitch, Aileron and Rudder. I'm now using all MG servos and although they operate ok on the bench, I've read that some MG servos can exaggerate the interference problem so I'm thinking of turning the entire tail around 180 degrees so that the rudder servo is on the bottom and away from the RX. Plus I'm going to also try wrapping the servo wires around Ferrite beads to see if that helps.

Any advice would be appreciated on this because at the moment, I'm too scared to fly these things. Last out of control piro with the V200 came right at me at full power and I just managed to TH it at the last moment which dumped it at my feet.

Cheers
Ben
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by BenVK View Post
This is the reason I'm totaly fed up with my 4F200 and V200D03. I use the RX-2618V-D on both and no matter what I try, they both trip out at random times resulting in out of control piros. It's really frustrating because I'm a beginner and have just recently moved into sport flying in my local park. Before that, they both behaved ok whilst hovering and some gentle forward flight in my back garden. But now I'm pushing then around the sky a bit, they've both gone out of control on me at the worst of times, resulting in heavy crashes and broken parts so I don't trust them anymore. If it wasn't for my V120D02S which contines to fly despite being held together with CA and bits of tape, I would have given up this hobby by now.

I was watching your youtube vids today, I don't know how you've gotten away with some of those crashes without at least stripping some of the stock servos! I don't have any left now, including tail servos, they've all either stripped or just stop working.

Anyway, I'm satisfied that it's not a mechanical problem on either heli. I've gone over all that a million times so I'm stumped as I'm not an electronics guy. Do you have ideas? I've been researching this over the last couple of days and the only thing that I can find that might be the problem is interference or voltage changes to the RX and gyro and it's HH capability. For example, the V200 was ok on my last flight with a 3S 1000mah until I landed and changed to a 1300mah. It then hovered ok for about a minute before spinning out of control and crashing. It's always the tail that blows out despite their being nothing wrong with the tail servo.

I'm just wondering if some of the RX gyros on the 4F200s and V200s are having interference problems because if you think about, they sit in a triangle of servos, Pitch, Aileron and Rudder. I'm now using all MG servos and although they operate ok on the bench, I've read that some MG servos can exaggerate the interference problem so I'm thinking of turning the entire tail around 180 degrees so that the rudder servo is on the bottom and away from the RX. Plus I'm going to also try wrapping the servo wires around Ferrite beads to see if that helps.

Any advice would be appreciated on this because at the moment, I'm too scared to fly these things. Last out of control piro with the V200 came right at me at full power and I just managed to TH it at the last moment which dumped it at my feet.

Cheers
Ben
That was the first and only time this has ever happened since installing the upgrade ESC and Gyro. I suspect a loss in voltage and my glitch buster kept me online with the TX long enough for the motor to catch up. But the change in motor torque when the motor spun back up probably is what kicked my tail around all crazy. I can only speculate. I have no idea what actually happened.

What is your tail gyro setting on the TX?

Are you using the stock ESC? It's horrible and probably most of your issue. You should replace it.

Otherwise, run the ESC throttle cable to the RX on the opposite side of the heli from the servo wires. From the first metal wire clip above the ESC. Just wrap it around under the heli's airframe and up to the RX. Routing it away from the other servo wires. You might want to put a farrite ring on the ESC wire near the RX too.(i don't use one but have always wanted to put one there) That should prevent any cross talk. Make sure your tail servo wire and ESC wires do not cross under the airframe either. You should be able to fly this heli, fairly care free. I'm positive if your using the stock ESC your problems could be fixed for as little as $9 if you know how to solder.


Oh, and about crash damage reduction. Best practice (imo) is to move your collective stick to the center immediately. Of course hit throttle hold first. But moving the stick to the center, and not trying to control the heli or "save it" but instead cutting the throttle and letting it just plop down is the best result for saving servos. If your lucky, the blades will break and the servos will be okay. But i use plastic blades. So thats a big deal on saving servos sometimes too. Over all, i am very lucky in crashes. That could be a severe understatement according to some. I've crashed my v450 like 30+ times, easily. Only on tail boom #3

This heli after upgrades really has been my most reliable and maintenance free walkera helicoper. Even more so than the v120s. Because those end up not having the power and bogging out and crashing. Usually due to battery discharge ability. I guess i should also mention that the 4f200 is not capable of aggressive pitch changes like a 2 blade helicopter though. At least not at this head speed. But with 2 blades this should be a very nimble, pitch pumping, tick tocking machine.
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 02:52 PM
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I've tried a JP BEC 25A as well:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1307363015...84.m1439.l2649

Got the TX gyro setting at 70%. RX gyro pots at about 11 o'clock.
You might be right about the servo and ESC wires. At the moment, I have them bunched together to be neat..
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by BenVK View Post
Hi IntegrityHndywrk, which make of fuselage is that? It looks fantastic mate!, much better than my effort. I used the Ansmann Sky Taxi one but it was too big so had to cut it down and do a lot of other mods.

The 5 blade head is amazing and what I planned on doing myself but I'm sick of this heli and the V200D03 right now.

That looks nice too. Mine is a RC Areodyne fuse. But don't get it wrong. It was too long and had to be cut to size and modified some also. Because we are using a 200 size not 250 that everyone makes these to fit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenVK View Post
I've tried a JP BEC 25A as well:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1307363015...84.m1439.l2649

Got the TX gyro setting at 70%. RX gyro pots at about 11 o'clock.
You might be right about the servo and ESC wires. At the moment, I have them bunched together to be neat..

Yeah, give it a shot. I experienced problems with this having them bundled together myself. So i now route it on the other side of the heli. That is the side the throt port is on anyway.
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Old Sep 18, 2012, 07:59 PM
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So I have successfully implemented the rx2702V again on my second funcopter....upon success....I had an mirage like imaginary image printed above my head "IntegrityHandyWOrk"
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
That looks nice too. Mine is a RC Areodyne fuse. But don't get it wrong. It was too long and had to be cut to size and modified some also. Because we are using a 200 size not 250 that everyone makes these to fit.

Yeah, give it a shot. I experienced problems with this having them bundled together myself. So i now route it on the other side of the heli. That is the side the throt port is on anyway.
Just checked out the Aerodyne fuse, it's fibreglass....wasn't the weight a big issue? The one I got is regular thin canopy plastic stuff..


Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
I'm positive if your using the stock ESC your problems could be fixed for as little as $9 if you know how to solder.
Thanks for the tip about re-routing the wires. Did you ever place the ESC on the opposite side to stock and what is this $9 fix?
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by tengarang View Post
So I have successfully implemented the rx2702V again on my second funcopter....upon success....I had an mirage like imaginary image printed above my head "IntegrityHandyWOrk"
I'm glad it's working out for you! It's always nice when a project comes together.


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Originally Posted by BenVK View Post
Just checked out the Aerodyne fuse, it's fibreglass....wasn't the weight a big issue? The one I got is regular thin canopy plastic stuff..

Thanks for the tip about re-routing the wires. Did you place the ESC on the opposite side to stock then?
No problem. The ESC is still mounted on the stock side. I suppose you could move it if you wanted. But i just use the first wire clip above the esc to hold the wire. Then wrap it under the frame from there. Have it poke up on the other side and plug directly in. Since the port will be on that side you don't have to wrap it over the top of the other servo wires to reach over there anymore.

Are you sure yours is plastic? It might be thinly made fiberglass. Fiberglass can be thin and flexible like plastic. At least some of the canopies have fooled me in the past. Fiberglass is not really that heavy. But the fuse does add weight and take away from flight time. But the motor and 5 blade rotors handle the lift just fine. More blades = more lift capacity. The 4f200's 3 blade head, in my opinion, needs to have slightly narrower blades and some type of damper system. Just changing the CF blades out with plastic blades smoothed out the flight considerably. Because it acts like a damper with more flexible blades. Honestly, i think the reduced flight times in this model have a lot to do with the new mechanics more than weight. Since the helicopter was built from parts. My old 4f200 is a well oiled machine. Very little friction on the rotor bearings and things compared to the new one. So that is very important, to keep things lubed to reduce heat building in the ESC and keep the heli performing well. Helps with those motor cogging startups a little too.
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 10:26 AM
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What lube do you use if it's not too personal a question!
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Just changing the CF blades out with plastic blades smoothed out the flight considerably.
Noticed that, I've got Esky Honey Bee CT blades on mine but don't like them that much. The heli feels too soft with these. Sure are a weird design as well with the cut out sections covered with tape.

The new Master CP blades look like they might work well. 210mm long plastic outer with a fibreglass core.The roots are probably too thick though and would need sanding down just like the Esky blades.

I've also tried the white plastic Align 205mm blades with spacers on my V200D03. They seem to make the heli float up and down in a hover. Maybe they work better with the 3 blade head but I only have a pair of them so didn't try yet.
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 02:08 PM
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Noticed that, I've got Esky Honey Bee CT blades on mine but don't like them that much. The heli feels too soft with these. Sure are a weird design as well with the cut out sections covered with tape.

The new Master CP blades look like they might work well. 210mm long plastic outer with a fibreglass core.The roots are probably too thick though and would need sanding down just like the Esky blades.

I've also tried the white plastic Align 205mm blades with spacers on my V200D03. They seem to make the heli float up and down in a hover. Maybe they work better with the 3 blade head but I only have a pair of them so didn't try yet.
I think I must be the only one out there who actually likes the way the V200 carbon blades fly. I like the responsiveness, especially on the collective. It may be because I usually have to fly in gusty conditions so instant collective response is a must.

Comparitively the V200 is a bit mushy tho compared to the 250 DFC on carbons. I'm looking into the master CP's since I had that brass bushing failure on the V200 carbons. the master CP blades have a solid root versus the hollow carbons.
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 03:16 PM
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OK Mr. Integrity, I've totaly re-routed all the wires as shown below plus added a ferrite tube taken out of a laptop power supply cable that the IT guy at work gave me for free today. I couldn't get both battery cables through it plus the RX wire so chose the + wire as a guess.

I also wrapped the tail servo wire around the tail boom as I read this might help also.

Ran out of metal clips but and old credit card came to the rescue once again.

If this works, beers are on me all night if you ever get to London one day!
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 03:23 PM
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OK Mr. Integrity, I've totaly re-routed all the wires as shown below plus added a ferrite tube taken out of a laptop power supply cable that the IT guy at work gave me for free today. I couldn't get both battery cables through it plus the RX wire so chose the + wire as a guess.

I also wrapped the tail servo wire around the tail boom as I read this might help also.

Ran out of metal clips but and old credit card came to the rescue once again.

If this works, beers are on me all night if you ever get to London one day!
Quick question, what TX are you using? Devo 8S? If so do you know if you're at the latest firmware version OR do you have the Telemetry enabled?
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 03:30 PM
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I think I must be the only one out there who actually likes the way the V200 carbon blades fly. I like the responsiveness, especially on the collective. It may be because I usually have to fly in gusty conditions so instant collective response is a must.

Comparitively the V200 is a bit mushy tho compared to the 250 DFC on carbons. I'm looking into the master CP's since I had that brass bushing failure on the V200 carbons. the master CP blades have a solid root versus the hollow carbons.
Brass bushing? I bought my V200 second hand off ebay and the blades never had any brass bushings! I guess they failed before I even owned it!

But still, I'm with you all the way. Love how it flies with the stock CF's. Actualy, I love everything about this heli except how it's suddenly decided to spaz out on me.
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Old Sep 19, 2012, 03:33 PM
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Quick question, what TX are you using? Devo 8S? If so do you know if you're at the latest firmware version OR do you have the Telemetry enabled?
Afraid not, just got the Devo8.
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