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Old Jul 21, 2012, 01:06 PM
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Here is the insert and package contents from the scorpion bearing oil.

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Old Jul 21, 2012, 01:12 PM
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Looking at this frame on wow's site i noted the v200's battery tray is a little longer than the 4f200's. The bottom is extended out past the nose to accommodate the 3s pack, i suppose. I'd bet the canopy has a little more room "under the hood" so to speak. Just some thoughts.

http://www.wowhobbies.com/hm-v200d03...shaft-1-1.aspx
Here's some better measurements for you. The tray is 9cm from the chin to the top although a pack the full size might foul the elevator servo arm. As you can see the stock 3S pack is only ~6cm long so it looks pretty tiny on there. BTW I tried the 250 canopy on it, it's much too short and the front of the battery tray is too wide to allow the canopy to slide back.
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by TucsonFlyer View Post
Here's some better measurements for you. The tray is 9cm from the chin to the top although a pack the full size might foul the elevator servo arm. As you can see the stock 3S pack is only ~6cm long so it looks pretty tiny on there. BTW I tried the 250 canopy on it, it's much too short and the front of the battery tray is too wide to allow the canopy to slide back.
It's more like 8.5cm. something like that. You have to measure from the edge of the battery tray. This is actually kind of confusing me now. Because the 4f200 is actually 10.8cm or 108mm from the top of the the tray to the bottom of the tray. Something is off here. is the v200 actually shorter frame with a longer battery ledge on the nose? Whats going on here?

At first i was sure they just extended the little ledge shelf on the nose. To get the smaller battery farther forward for CG. Now i'm lost.
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Here is the insert and package contents from the scorpion bearing oil.

Thank you IntegrityHndywrk, for sharing the product literature of the Scorpion Motor Lubrication Kit. I will be adding this product to my tool box very soon. I appreciate having such a tool in my kit to extend the life of my stock motor.

Its only $5.99, so can't go wrong with that.

Link to product: http://helidirect.com/scorpion-motor-bearing-lubrication-kit-p-9899.hdx


Another question. Do you anticipate this product would be usable on other bearings? Main shaft bearings? Driven tail gear bearings? Tail shaft bearings? Tail slider bearing? I am just identifying bearings that are not sealed and that rotate at a high rate. Or do you think the lube would gum up?
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TucsonFlyer View Post
Here's some better measurements for you. The tray is 9cm from the chin to the top although a pack the full size might foul the elevator servo arm. As you can see the stock 3S pack is only ~6cm long so it looks pretty tiny on there. BTW I tried the 250 canopy on it, it's much too short and the front of the battery tray is too wide to allow the canopy to slide back.
TucsonFlyer,

Just curious. How much does the stock V200D03 battery weight? In grams. I wonder if Walkera placed the battery up in the nose a bit for better COG balance.
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
It's more like 8.5cm. something like that. You have to measure from the edge of the battery tray. This is actually kind of confusing me now. Because the 4f200 is actually 10.8cm or 108mm from the top of the the tray to the bottom of the tray. Something is off here. is the v200 actually shorter frame with a longer battery ledge on the nose? Whats going on here?

At first i was sure they just extended the little ledge shelf on the nose. To get the smaller battery farther forward for CG. Now i'm lost.
I think you guys should remove the aluminum/plastic battery stopper/holder from the equation (the piece that we suspect which varies) and just measure the length of the fiberglass battery tray all by itself.

My simple 2 cents. That should tell us at least both are using the same battery tray.
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by razorblade View Post
Thank you IntegrityHndywrk, for sharing the product literature of the Scorpion Motor Lubrication Kit. I will be adding this product to my tool box very soon. I appreciate having such a tool in my kit to extend the life of my stock motor.

Its only $5.99, so can't go wrong with that.

Link to product: http://helidirect.com/scorpion-motor-bearing-lubrication-kit-p-9899.hdx


Another question. Do you anticipate this product would be usable on other bearings? Main shaft bearings? Driven tail gear bearings? Tail shaft bearings? Tail slider bearing? I am just identifying bearings that are not sealed and that rotate at a high rate. Or do you think the lube would gum up?
My personal opinion is no. But sometimes mixing lube is bad juju. If the grease in the bearing does not play well with the new stuff you can end up with gritty feeling bearings. I used to run into this problem in my skateboarding days with abec 5 bearings. So it's a gamble. Viking in the v450 thread just had a swash bearing get all gritty. His heli is pretty new and he does not fly all that much. But it was in a crash. However he mentioned he likes to keep things lubed. Thats what made me remember what used to happen when i oiled my old skate bearings back in the day when he mentioned how the bearing felt when spun. Some times it works out, sometimes not. It seemed to me this stuff made the old stuff excrete, or something. But i'm not sure. I need to check my v450 too out now too. Both these motors were in pretty bad shape. The v450 motor being used, who knows if it was ever lubed before i got it.

You can remove bearings and wash them with alcohol to maybe remove the old lube. Then add the new stuff. But most of the shaft bearings and things are actually sealed, so this is not easy. If it were a packed bearing the ball bearings would be visible on one or both sides. In this case, i recommend repacking them with bearing grease like tri-flow or something like that after cleaning them out.

That being said, i'm often lazy and mix my lubes. Sometimes its okay. Sometimes its okay for a little while..... And sometimes it just screws every thing up.


Oh yeah, I updated the build log entry for the motors with a new video with the Turbo Ace 352 motor using a 18T pinion and some thoughts and info about it. Nothing special. It looks like this motor with 18T is very viable.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1#post22104539

4f200 - Test - Turbo Ace 352 with 18T pinion (7 min 38 sec)
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
It's more like 8.5cm. something like that. You have to measure from the edge of the battery tray. This is actually kind of confusing me now. Because the 4f200 is actually 10.8cm or 108mm from the top of the the tray to the bottom of the tray. Something is off here. is the v200 actually shorter frame with a longer battery ledge on the nose? Whats going on here?

At first i was sure they just extended the little ledge shelf on the nose. To get the smaller battery farther forward for CG. Now i'm lost.
Ok, re-measured a bit. The fiberglass section of the tray is just about 8.3cm The metal ledge part on the end adds another 9mm to the total. Altogether that gives 9.2cm

The stock battery is quoted at 72g. I don't have a scale to verify with unfortunately.
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
My personal opinion is no. But sometimes mixing lube is bad juju. If the grease in the bearing does not play well with the new stuff you can end up with gritty feeling bearings. I used to run into this problem in my skateboarding days with abec 5 bearings. So it's a gamble. Viking in the v450 thread just had a swash bearing get all gritty. His heli is pretty new and he does not fly all that much. But it was in a crash. However he mentioned he likes to keep things lubes. Thats what made me remember what used to happen when i oiled my old skate bearings back in the day when he mentioned how the bearing felt when spun. Some times it works out, sometimes not. It seemed to me this stuff made the old stuff excrete, or something. But i'm not sure. I need to check my v450 too out now too. Both these motors were in pretty bad shape. The v450 motor being used, who knows if it was ever lubed before i got it.

You can remove bearings and wash them with alcohol to maybe remove the old lube. Then add the new stuff. But most of the shaft bearings and things are actually sealed, so this is not easy. If it were a packed bearing the ball bearings would be visible on one or both sides. In this case, i recommend repacking them with bearing grease like tri-flow or something like that after cleaning them out.

That being said, i'm often lazy and mix my lubes. Sometimes its okay. Sometimes its okay for a little while..... And sometimes it just screws every thing up.


Oh yeah, I updated the build log entry for the motors with a new video with the Turbo Ace 352 motor using a 18T pinion and some thoughts and info about it. Nothing special. It looks like this motor with 18T is very viable.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1#post22104539

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QOSBj2-5ME
Well, I am in the process of replacing the main shaft bearings and driven tail gear bearings. Replacing them with new ones. So any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated. I have all kinds of lube in my garage. I have the ultra premium oil and also some silicon lube - both very thin. But nothing like the Scorpion lube.

The funny thing about these Walkera bearings, while they might appear to be sealed, meaning the bearings are not visible, the seal is not very good. They are seal with thin tin or thin aluminum and its not very tight. So with the thin lube, it gets in there.
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Old Jul 21, 2012, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by razorblade View Post
Well, I am in the process of replacing the main shaft bearings and driven tail gear bearings. Replacing them with new ones. So any advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated. I have all kinds of lube in my garage. I have the ultra premium oil and also some silicon lube - both very thin. But nothing like the Scorpion lube.

The funny thing about these Walkera bearings, while they might appear to be sealed, meaning the bearings are not visible, the seal is not very good. They are seal with thin tin or thin aluminum and its not very tight. So with the thin lube, it gets in there.
Yes, i thought i had mentioned that about the seals. I would stick with the scorpion oil for now. It seems good. But honestly try and find some abec 3 bearings if you can as replacements. Those are heat and load rated. They should last longer. I recently ordered a set of abec 3 bearings for my v450 main shaft. They have to be pressed into the frame pieces but its not a big deal with a vise. I don't know the measurements for these bearings but i'm sure you can find the right bearings at helidirect.com under RC Bearings. Thats where i got my v450 ones. You'll just have to figure out the measurements of the shaft bearing. I'm fairly sure it's the same size shaft as the 250. But the OD might be different. Otherwise, i'm going to just try the scorpion oil. It should be fine for those bearings too. They probably don't even get as high a load as the motor bearings do.


Today i lost my tail and crashed!!! My belt was completely sheered! I suspect my front gear is the culprit. It's pretty worn out compared to the new one in the bag i'm comparing it to. The teeth have become less defined and uneven to the bottom side. I should have replaced it back when i did the rebuild but i wanted to see how much longer it would go. The good news is the washer shim worked for keeping the gear caps from shaking loose again though!. The belt must have been mad it the tail. Because the only damage was the tail boom, rotor shaft and belt. didn't even break a blade, crack the canopy or strip a servo. Just mangled the tail... couldn't be helped. I actually managed to gain control... or what could be called partial control of the heli in it's tail spin and set it down on the skids pretty well. It just had too much rotation and hit the ground and spun around.

EDIT/Update:
Well the 4f200 is back in one piece and all repaired. I have the tail boom pushed all the way in basically and the belt still felt a little tight till i spooled the motor up the fist time. I don't know why it felt so tight. I think it's okay now though. The only part i didn't have for the repairs was the tail vertical stabilizer. So i'm hoping i can fly without it for the time being. Shouldn't be an issue since we have these wonderful HH gyros. Here is a video from the last flight before the crash. My camera battery died shortly after so no footage of the crash. But you can see there is no real indication that the belt was wearing.

4f200 - 3d fly testing the Turbo Ace 352 with 18T pinion (6 min 40 sec)
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Old Jul 23, 2012, 09:01 AM
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Okay, without saying too much about it. I have placed the starting orders for the frame for my next 200-250 sized heli. I have decided i will build the frame from individual parts. I may, or may not sell this particular helicopter after making it because it's not exactly my style. It's just something I've wanted to do for a while now. But when it's done it's going to be very cool.
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Old Jul 23, 2012, 10:57 AM
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Okay, without saying too much about it. I have placed the starting orders for the frame for my next 200-250 sized heli. I have decided i will build the frame from individual parts. I may, or may not sell this particular helicopter after making it because it's not exactly my style. It's just something I've wanted to do for a while now. But when it's done it's going to be very cool.
Hmmm, sounds interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing it!

Speaking of projects, the 250 DFC build is complete, it had it's first test flight yesterday which I'll provisionally call a success I call it that because I didn't crash it, nothing flew off, nothing caught fire, the tail held, and it did actually fly. It is, however, TWITCHY. I'll chalk that all up to my complete lack of knowledge of good starter settings for the 3GX unit.

A few 3GX comments. First, the thing is dead easy to setup if you have a digital pitch gauge/level and RTFM about 10 times. It really relies on the 0* mechanical setup to make it all work and my eyeballing it with my old crappy pitch gauge wasn't cutting it. The other part that was and is a bit difficult is the somewhat mangled translation for the directions and lack of recommended settings (that I could find). That combines with the fact that the DFC head and swash are mechanically capable of some faintly insane roll rates made for a pretty wild test flight. I'm going to hook it up to the software tonight and try to dial it waaaay back.

All in all, great kit to build and very high quality parts compared to my walkeras. Canopy is a bit on the tight side and needed some sanding to go on easy, also the main shaft is a touch short and so I had to thin the spacer between the OWB and the lower main bearing. Apparently the shaft thing is a known issue, for me it wasn't a big deal and the newer kits are supposedly including multiple spacer thicknesses so you can adjust. DFC head is solid and the bearing supported swash links are like butter. The most impressive part tho is the tail slider. It's massively solid with zero play in it but so well balanced that I can blow on it and it'll slide (so long as you don't accidentally get loctite in the slider arm bushings) This kit could be tough on folks with large fingers, I had to have my fiance help with some of the wiring I have new found respect for the walkera assembly folks!

I'll post up some V200/250 DFC comparison pics tonight.
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Old Jul 23, 2012, 04:36 PM
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Hmmm, sounds interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing it!

Speaking of projects, the 250 DFC build is complete, it had it's first test flight yesterday which I'll provisionally call a success I call it that because I didn't crash it, nothing flew off, nothing caught fire, the tail held, and it did actually fly. It is, however, TWITCHY. I'll chalk that all up to my complete lack of knowledge of good starter settings for the 3GX unit.

A few 3GX comments. First, the thing is dead easy to setup if you have a digital pitch gauge/level and RTFM about 10 times. It really relies on the 0* mechanical setup to make it all work and my eyeballing it with my old crappy pitch gauge wasn't cutting it. The other part that was and is a bit difficult is the somewhat mangled translation for the directions and lack of recommended settings (that I could find). That combines with the fact that the DFC head and swash are mechanically capable of some faintly insane roll rates made for a pretty wild test flight. I'm going to hook it up to the software tonight and try to dial it waaaay back.

All in all, great kit to build and very high quality parts compared to my walkeras. Canopy is a bit on the tight side and needed some sanding to go on easy, also the main shaft is a touch short and so I had to thin the spacer between the OWB and the lower main bearing. Apparently the shaft thing is a known issue, for me it wasn't a big deal and the newer kits are supposedly including multiple spacer thicknesses so you can adjust. DFC head is solid and the bearing supported swash links are like butter. The most impressive part tho is the tail slider. It's massively solid with zero play in it but so well balanced that I can blow on it and it'll slide (so long as you don't accidentally get loctite in the slider arm bushings) This kit could be tough on folks with large fingers, I had to have my fiance help with some of the wiring I have new found respect for the walkera assembly folks!

I'll post up some V200/250 DFC comparison pics tonight.
I have not heard many great things about the 3GX system. If anything i've heard a few complaints. I don't know the details. But you might want to google for the known issues with the 3gx system. Because to my knowledge there are some. Just like with any device, it seems..


Congrats on your maiden voyage! Your build has definitely inspired me to start my next build. Which, like i said might just be for me to generate some revenue towards the next project i really want to build to keep. Though when i'm done, i might just fall in love with it.... I'll say this much. Though it might be 3D capable, and a FBL CP. It will be too pretty to try 3d on.
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Old Jul 23, 2012, 09:05 PM
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As promised here are a couple of pics of the V200 and 250 DFC side by side! Don't mind the white powder on the DFC, I had been sanding down the canopy to get it to fit

Overall the best way to describe the 250 is dense. The frame is smaller and more compact while the tail boom is about 3cm longer. Overall weights are almost the same, any savings from the CF frame and smaller skids are countered by the metal gear servos and bigger motor. The 250 also carries it's mass higher up.

Wiring is messier on the 250, notice that I didn't show the left side of the heli with the RX on it The tail drive train is also far superior on the 250 although I have no idea how durable the tail gears are.
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Old Jul 23, 2012, 11:57 PM
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As promised here are a couple of pics of the V200 and 250 DFC side by side! Don't mind the white powder on the DFC, I had been sanding down the canopy to get it to fit

Overall the best way to describe the 250 is dense. The frame is smaller and more compact while the tail boom is about 3cm longer. Overall weights are almost the same, any savings from the CF frame and smaller skids are countered by the metal gear servos and bigger motor. The 250 also carries it's mass higher up.

Wiring is messier on the 250, notice that I didn't show the left side of the heli with the RX on it The tail drive train is also far superior on the 250 although I have no idea how durable the tail gears are.
I bet wiring would be cleaner with a AR7200BX....

Seriously though, that looks pretty sweet. Thats the copter X frame you said right? It's kind of cool it's not branded all over it. All you see is align. From what i can tell they are identical.
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