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Old Jul 16, 2012, 04:53 PM
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Monsoon season has started here in Arizona so my flying time has been pretty badly curtailed. I did manage to put an inagural flip on the V200 over the weekend, nice and uneventful, just how I like em

I'm also about half way through banging together a t-Rex 250 DFC super combo. If I can't fly in the rain I can at least indulge my OCD/DIY side. I just wish that walkera could make an RX802 mini...a couple mm here and there and I could get the RX inside the frame for the wiring job I wish I could have. Instead I'm going to have to strap it to the side. At this point it's still a frankencopter with all it's wiring hanging out and the frame all taken apart. I also can't believe what a PITA it is to find green threadlocker for the pinion. At this point I'm really pretty optimistic that it won't just shed parts the first time I get it in the air I should have bought loctite stock.
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Hey Razorblade, whats the word on those Emax servos? I found them on ebay for like $7 each. Thinking about putting in an order and waiting a month from china.

I suppose it wouldn't matter if they work for you or not. I still need to order them to determine their status with the 2618V and 2612V RX I suppose.

EDIT:
Never mind, the ebay servos are ES08A not MD.
I ordered three ES08MD servos on July 10 from hobby-wing.com for $12 each here. They shipped on July 11 through swisspost from china and the package left the country on July 13. That's all I know for now. They might arrive at end of this week or next week.

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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
I suppose it wouldn't matter if they work for you or not. I still need to order them to determine their status with the 2618V and 2612V RX I suppose.
There are two 4F200 owners that I know of who have installed the EMAX ES08MD servos:
  • Tovin - running 2612 receiver
  • deliver1003 - running 2702 receiver

It looks like Tovin would be the best to readily answer your question. When I get my servos, I will layout the servos on the bench and wire them up to see if any reversing is need when using the 2612 receiver, of which I still happen to have.
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 09:44 PM
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Yeeeehaw!

I received my Futaba S3154 replacement servo today. I have to say, Futaba Hobby Services is top notch.

I had sent this servo in the mail USPS First Class on July 2 and today is July 16. Not bad.

I am back in business...
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TucsonFlyer View Post
Monsoon season has started here in Arizona so my flying time has been pretty badly curtailed. I did manage to put an inagural flip on the V200 over the weekend, nice and uneventful, just how I like em .
Aaaaaawwwwww, no video? Were you nervous?
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 10:26 PM
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Damn it.

Whish I found this before. I just found a site that ships EMAX ES08MD servos out of Arizona. Here is the link: http://www.bmkdesigns.net/emax-es08md-servo.html

Price $12.95 each.
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 10:37 PM
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And another one. Damn it again. This site ships out of Ohio.

EMAX ES08MD Servo (strange - the image is for the ES08A analog servo)
http://www.lazertoyz.com/ES08MD-12g_p_97.html
Price $10.99 each
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by TucsonFlyer View Post
Monsoon season has started here in Arizona so my flying time has been pretty badly curtailed. I did manage to put an inagural flip on the V200 over the weekend, nice and uneventful, just how I like em

I'm also about half way through banging together a t-Rex 250 DFC super combo. If I can't fly in the rain I can at least indulge my OCD/DIY side. I just wish that walkera could make an RX802 mini...a couple mm here and there and I could get the RX inside the frame for the wiring job I wish I could have. Instead I'm going to have to strap it to the side. At this point it's still a frankencopter with all it's wiring hanging out and the frame all taken apart. I also can't believe what a PITA it is to find green threadlocker for the pinion. At this point I'm really pretty optimistic that it won't just shed parts the first time I get it in the air I should have bought loctite stock.
You know what, I just remembered seeing this youtube video not long ago about Walkera RX on a 250. It's a 2612V. I'm pretty sure thats bigger than the RX802 in size. If not you can always get a 2618V-D (assuming your using devo)

BTW, does or will the 250 canopy fit the 4f200/v200? It looks damn close to the same size and shape.

Walkera 4F200 Receiver RX 2612V setup on the Trex 250 Flybarless helicopter (2 min 58 sec)





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Originally Posted by razorblade View Post
Damn it.

Whish I found this before. I just found a site that ships EMAX ES08MD servos out of Arizona. Here is the link: http://www.bmkdesigns.net/emax-es08md-servo.html

Price $12.95 each.
I don't know man, both of those sites look a little cheesy. Maybe this friday i'll give the 12.95 one a shot. If i have to get a 2702V to make these work, well. I suppose there could be worse side effects to having good servos. The thing thats nice about these is they are digital and FULL METAL gear. Unlike every single other servo known to man that has 1 carbonate or nylon gear. Technically the carbonate gear is still considered metal though i think. Or something like that.

A side note about Analog vs Digital on this helicopter:
I'm pretty sure that these RX all use digital signal to the servos. I'm pretty damn sure the cyclic are digital and i'm positive that the tail servo is digital. If that is the case then the RX frame rate is 333hz (digital). If you try to use an analog servo that is expecting an analog frame rate of 50gz-70hz or something like that. Well the servo is going to be over worked and it's life span will become unpredictable. I remember someone here saying they installed Futaba 3114 servos which are analog and ended up frying 2 of them during installation. This is likely the reason. Though, without knowing 100% for sure if the RX is really digital. It's pure speculation at this point.

I received my 6 Savox 0257MG servos today too. They probably can have the tabs ground down to make them fit the 4f200 frame. However the protruding gear sticks out farther then stock and may not line up the linkages very well. Longer ball linkages might be able to be used to bring it back to stock geometry. I will be looking more into it later. But i'm pretty sure i don't want to install these Savox servos in the 4f200. I plan on building a 2nd v450 from parts in my box. If these emax servos work out at all comparable to stock. Well for the price, how can you go wrong?
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 04:18 AM
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I install the Emax 08MA servo, its not digital but it does flies better than before.
No problem found using with RX2612 receiver, although it is not digital servo.
The torque is really good on 4F200, u will noticed the cyclic change is faster than 766 as higer torque change in servo.
Although 766 servo is stated digital with less than 0.1sec speed, but the cyclic control is not strong enough for rapid change during high rotation speed force fom rotor blades.
The ES08D will be a better choice for digital servo.
But I got a strange mix feelings with EMAX servo installed on other 450 & 250 clones heli.
It is still not the best servo used for 450 heli, but it is treally good on 4F200.
I will keep it on 4F200 & my new order of RX2618 is comming.
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Tovin View Post
I install the Emax 08MA servo, its not digital but it does flies better than before.
No problem found using with RX2612 receiver, although it is not digital servo.
The torque is really good on 4F200, u will noticed the cyclic change is faster than 766 as higer torque change in servo.
Although 766 servo is stated digital with less than 0.1sec speed, but the cyclic control is not strong enough for rapid change during high rotation speed force fom rotor blades.
The ES08D will be a better choice for digital servo.
But I got a strange mix feelings with EMAX servo installed on other 450 & 250 clones heli.
It is still not the best servo used for 450 heli, but it is treally good on 4F200.
I will keep it on 4F200 & my new order of RX2618 is comming.
Thank you very much Tovin! It makes me happy to know i can finally order some upgrade servos for my favorite helicopter! I will probably order a set of these this weekend. If you want better servos for your 450. You should try the Savox 0257 for cyclic and 1357 for tail. I think both are available in plastic, metal, or titanium gears. But they are not cheap.
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
A side note about Analog vs Digital on this helicopter:
I'm pretty sure that these RX all use digital signal to the servos. I'm pretty damn sure the cyclic are digital and i'm positive that the tail servo is digital. If that is the case then the RX frame rate is 333hz (digital). If you try to use an analog servo that is expecting an analog frame rate of 50gz-70hz or something like that. Well the servo is going to be over worked and it's life span will become unpredictable. I remember someone here saying they installed Futaba 3114 servos which are analog and ended up frying 2 of them during installation. This is likely the reason. Though, without knowing 100% for sure if the RX is really digital. It's pure speculation at this point.
I can offer to remove some speculation.

The signal coming out of the RX2612V and RX2618V is a PWM digital signal. The only speculation that remains is the signal coming out of the receiver is sent at a rate of 50 times per second (50hz). Both the Futaba S3114 and Futaba S3154 are compatible with that signal. Both have the same potentiometer and coreless motor. The difference between the two servos is the 3154 has an extra circuit in there to update the motor at a much higher 333hz rate. So if you did think about it, its the 3154 servo where the motor would burn out faster. In either case, the motor can burn out caused from too much heat attributed from load of the flybarless head or even a crash - yes a crash can cause the linkage to be bound up which can prevent a servo from moving to a different position.

I should also point out the 3114 has more dead band (less resolution). Its because the 3114 updates the motor position on the same receiver PWM rate of 50hz.

So we need to be careful about speculating too much, otherwise folks like TucsonFlyer may feel that he bought an S3114 that is more susceptible to motor burnout.

Final note. A lot of these PWM specifications and differences are not payed attention to when using Walkera equipment because all the electronics in these helicopters are made from the same manufacturer and the manufacturer ensures it's all compatible for us who buy Walkera stuff.
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Thank you very much Tovin! It makes me happy to know i can finally order some upgrade servos for my favorite helicopter! I will probably order a set of these this weekend. If you want better servos for your 450. You should try the Savox 0257 for cyclic and 1357 for tail. I think both are available in plastic, metal, or titanium gears. But they are not cheap.
Please aware there will be alot of modification done to fit in the Emax servo.
U will need to cut the sservo tap & filing or grinding on the frame.
Also prepare spacer for the extra servo height for tighten the servo metal mounting plate.
Due to geomentry of servo height, the horn will not mounted 90degree anymore to compensate the extra height.
The servo lingkage will need to shorthen for correct pitch change.
To get correct full collective +/- 11degree travel, u will need to do some trimming on the pitch travel on transmitter.
This will takes quite a few hours to get it right.
Good luck.
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by razorblade View Post
Aaaaaawwwwww, no video? Were you nervous?
Unfortunately no video, my awesome camera woman is out of the country and I'm not optimistic about teaching the dog to use the camera

I was nervous as heck! These 200's don't bounce as nicely as the 120's and I really didn't feel like rebuilding the whole heli. I also find it a bit nerve wracking that I never really seem to know what some of these walkera FBL systems are going to do inverted until I try. In the end though I just pulled back on the stick and it tracked nicely the whole way around.
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by razorblade View Post
I can offer to remove some speculation.

The signal coming out of the RX2612V and RX2618V is a PWM digital signal. The only speculation that remains is the signal coming out of the receiver is sent at a rate of 50 times per second (50hz). Both the Futaba S3114 and Futaba S3154 are compatible with that signal. Both have the same potentiometer and coreless motor. The difference between the two servos is the 3154 has an extra circuit in there to update the motor at a much higher 333hz rate. So if you did think about it, its the 3154 servo where the motor would burn out faster. In either case, the motor can burn out caused from too much heat attributed from load of the flybarless head or even a crash - yes a crash can cause the linkage to be bound up which can prevent a servo from moving to a different position.

I should also point out the 3114 has more dead band (less resolution). Its because the 3114 updates the motor position on the same receiver PWM rate of 50hz.

So we need to be careful about speculating too much, otherwise folks like TucsonFlyer may feel that he bought an S3114 that is more susceptible to motor burnout.

Final note. A lot of these PWM specifications and differences are not payed attention to when using Walkera equipment because all the electronics in these helicopters are made from the same manufacturer and the manufacturer ensures it's all compatible for us who buy Walkera stuff.
Well naturally, but how else can you explain 2 of the servos burning out on the bench? Just bad luck with 2 defective units? Anyway, yes we all know Walkera makes, or has their equipment made for them to work together thoughtlessly for the user. This is also part of the problem. In Walkera's efforts to stifle new comers into buying only their parts for job security. They also neglect to release any specs on their equipment worth a damn. I suppose it's no surprise since they are still trying to figure out how to write a user manual in English.
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 10:50 AM
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Unfortunately no video, my awesome camera woman is out of the country and I'm not optimistic about teaching the dog to use the camera

I was nervous as heck! These 200's don't bounce as nicely as the 120's and I really didn't feel like rebuilding the whole heli. I also find it a bit nerve wracking that I never really seem to know what some of these walkera FBL systems are going to do inverted until I try. In the end though I just pulled back on the stick and it tracked nicely the whole way around.
Walkera's 200 size in my opinion is their best helicopters, with some work. The v200d03 they got pretty good! Lots of people like those direct drive TT systems too. I just prefer belts. As you get used to and adjust your helicopter you will start to realize that it has more power and available kinetic energy in flight than the 120 class. The thing is, unlike the stock v120 helicopters. These things have power and are actually pretty well to do helicopters. As far as 3D flight goes.

About the FBL unit.... Can't expect too much for $60... at least the damn things work. lol. You could alternatively get a AR7200BX for $230 just for the RX. Thats the real difference though. Even the 2702V is not up to par with that thing.
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 12:08 PM
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You know what, I just remembered seeing this youtube video not long ago about Walkera RX on a 250. It's a 2612V. I'm pretty sure thats bigger than the RX802 in size. If not you can always get a 2618V-D (assuming your using devo)

BTW, does or will the 250 canopy fit the 4f200/v200? It looks damn close to the same size and shape.
The 250 canopy is close in overall size but the fitment is pretty different. The 250 is shorter between the grommets and the bottom edge of the canopy by almost an inch. It'd take alot of trimming to make it fit.

With the DFC they moved the tail servo inside the frame where that video shows the RX. That kills most of the space and then the 3GX unit takes up most of the space in the lower frame. If the 802 was about 2mm shorter and the pins faced the front rather than up then I could mount it above the 3GX under the main gear. I'm just not going to shell out for a futaba or a spektrum TX and another RX just to save some wiring headache. I'll put up some pics soon, I'm still trying to work through the component locations until I find something good.
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