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Old May 15, 2012, 02:55 PM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
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For Sale: HM-4F200-Z-42 - WK-WST-20A-2 - Stock ESC

Oh yeah, BTW. If anyone wants a STOCK ESC for their 4f200 I have one arriving in the mail tomorrow. (I doubt heli direct will take a return without a restocking fee or something, plus it's just a pain to return things)

So if anyone needs or wants a stock ESC for their 4f200 or v200d03. Unopened and in it's original packaging from Heli Direct I'll sell it for a dollar less than i paid for it plus shipping. $28 and i can ship it for under $7, maybe even as little as $2-3 for first class, but I'll have to check weights when it arrives for accurate shipping quotes. Transaction can be done via email of paypal invoice or an ebay purchase with paypal as the accepted payment method (I have not made the listing yet since I don't have the item yet.). My ebay feedback record is active and clean, so you don't have to worry. Shipping will be within 1 business day.
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Old May 15, 2012, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by wlee1017 View Post
Glad soldering ESC work and you fixed the issue. HP08 stock motor is very tricky and sensitive to resistance developed across conenction which cause voltage drop. For timming issue, Low/Medium/High (3.75/15/26.5 deg), most motor like Inrunner use Low while Outrunner motor use medium, or high depends on motor. If you want to get higher speed, you may chose higher timing other than LOW.

my 2 cents.
Yeah, it feels like it has the same power now as the stock ESC did, or close. But it's hard to tell with only hovering about in my yard, tail in. But it seems like this ESC is for brush less motors only. I'm going to give medium a shot when the batteries are charged back up. The manual says higher speed can be used but it depends on your motor. I just don't want to puff one of the stock $30 batteries i have here yet because they are still less than 20 flights on each individually. If the ESC burns out or even the $20 motor no big loss. I'd like to really put it to the test so others after me know what to expect too. Eventually i'll probably be upgrading this to the v200d03's motor and 3S battery packs. With a beefier ESC with at least a 3A BEC. Even if it is linear, should be better than 2A on this helicopter. It's cyclic servos have a high draw it seems.


Edit:
Rain has began here. So looks like it will be a bit before i can do more testing. But it seemed like the medium timing worked best. Unless i did it wrong, high timing i think actually slowed down the motor, so. But it's working for now. I'll go paint a canopy for my bigger bird i guess.

Edit again:
Painted and done, looks good but i need someone who knows more about painting walkera stock canopies to drop over and give me some pointers on durability of the paint, since it's on the outside. : http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1834
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Old May 15, 2012, 08:08 PM
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United States, MN, Coon Rapids
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Originally Posted by TucsonFlyer View Post
Thanks for the link razor!
You're welcome! Its good to hear you have your heli sorted out. Last week I had a chance to make final AR7200BX receiver adjustments after learning some new things. Now if I can only find some time to fly my 4F200 in an open field...
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Old May 15, 2012, 08:15 PM
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IntegrityHndywrk,

Glad to hear you have your heli sorted out as well....
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Old May 15, 2012, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by razorblade View Post
IntegrityHndywrk,

Glad to hear you have your heli sorted out as well....
I thought i did. It seems the spindle shafts or head are slightly bent out of alignment, i thought they were not but i was mistaken. I still get good tracking at normal to high rpm and it does not vibe hardly at all but the issue is still there.

Maybe you can help with this, It seems that my blade grips are locked on pretty good to the shafts. I can't get the screw to break loose. I'd hate to have to buy a whole new head and blade grips because that will run about $35. I'm thinking of using a 100 watt soldering iron and touching it directly to the screw inside the blade grip to heat the screw and see if i can break it free. What do you think? I suppose if all else fails i can try and just break the head of the screw off since i'll be replacing all 3 spindles anyway. I just would hate to break them off and still not get the blade grips off.
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Old May 15, 2012, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
I thought i did. It seems the spindle shafts or head are slightly bent out of alignment, i thought they were not but i was mistaken. I still get good tracking at normal to high rpm and it does not vibe hardly at all but the issue is still there.

Maybe you can help with this, It seems that my blade grips are locked on pretty good to the shafts. I can't get the screw to break loose. I'd hate to have to buy a whole new head and blade grips because that will run about $35. I'm thinking of using a 100 watt soldering iron and touching it directly to the screw inside the blade grip to heat the screw and see if i can break it free. What do you think? I suppose if all else fails i can try and just break the head of the screw off since i'll be replacing all 3 spindles anyway. I just would hate to break them off and still not get the blade grips off.
Do you have a good 1.5mm allen driver? Like the DYNAMITE 1.5mm driver? See attached image. And yes, heat up those tiny shaft bolts with whatever you have, soldering iron with a thick tip or a blow dryer - although it would be better to remove the head assembly if you were to use a blow dryer. I've snapped off the head of the tiny set screw that fastens the tail rotor to the tail shaft but i bet if I would have heated that sucker up, it wouldn't of snapped off.

Be sure to use permanent lock tite when you're done. The main blade grip shafts aren't serviced that often. I used permanent lock tite on mine. And use removable lock tite on tail components.

I know how frustrated you feel at this point! Hang in there. Once you replace these components - at least it'll be your fault next time. For me it feels better when its my fault, then at least I know what not to do next time.
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Old May 15, 2012, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by razorblade View Post
Do you have a good 1.5mm allen driver? Like the DYNAMITE 1.5mm driver? See attached image. And yes, heat up those tiny shaft bolts with whatever you have, soldering iron with a thick tip or a blow dryer - although it would be better to remove the head assembly if you were to use a blow dryer. I've snapped off the head of the tiny set screw that fastens the tail rotor to the tail shaft but i bet if I would have heated that sucker up, it wouldn't of snapped off.

Be sure to use permanent lock tite when you're done. The main blade grip shafts aren't serviced that often. I used permanent lock tite on mine. And use removable lock tite on tail components.

I know how frustrated you feel at this point! Hang in there. Once you replace these components - at least it'll be your fault next time. For me it feels better when its my fault, then at least I know what not to do next time.
I don't actually have permanent lock tite at the moment, only CA's of different viscosity. I suppose that's the red stuff? My blue stuff is what has them locked on there right now. I can't imagine all 3 are bent so bad that i can't get them off. My allen tools all have T shaped handles on them. I can torque down so hard the tool's shaft begins to twist. So It occurred to me maybe heat will help. The 100 watt soldering iron is large tipped and heats up super fast. I'll try that later.

When it's my fault i actually cheer sometimes! It's not nearly as bad. If you watch my videos flying the v120 sized i crashed them often, the only time i think i actually got mad was when the motor bogged or something and i lost my tail and crashed.

FYI, i put a set of Trex 250 white plastic tail blades on and they work nice. I had to ream out the screw hole a tiny bit but they fit and work great. Really light up the vertical axis from a distance having white tail blades. I also have some white wood 250 blades but i need to get better washers for the blade grips. They are not as wide as the stock 4f200 blades so i expect the pitch range will be less, or they will produce less thrust anyway. so for now i just used some white electrical tape on the tips of the stock blades. Seems to work well.
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Old May 15, 2012, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
I don't actually have permanent lock tite at the moment, only CA's of different viscosity. I suppose that's the red stuff? My blue stuff is what has them locked on there right now.
Affirmative, the red stuff is the permanent type. If you're serious about locking things down.... get some.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
My allen tools all have T shaped handles on them. I can torque down so hard the tool's shaft begins to twist.
Either that or the tool is made of soft material. The DYNAMITE drivers are made of high quality hardened steel. And the tips are replaceable.

The first time I replaced the blade grip bolts, they were in there soo tight that I ended up adding a twist to the 1.5mm allen wrench that ships in the box with the 4F200 and the bolts still didn't break loose. After that I figured I needed the right tools. After buying a set of DNYAMITE 1.5mm allen drivers from the LHS, the bolts popped loose. Luckily I didn't end up snapping off the heads, but they sure were in there good. Didn't use heat of any kind, just the right tools for the job and brute force. If this ever happens again, I'll use heat. especially after my experience with the tail rotor set screw snapping off.

Worse case is you will have to purchase a replacement aluminum rotor head.
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Old May 15, 2012, 10:45 PM
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soldering iron heat up and should work. especially your solder is 100W. Heat and good wrench are two cures for loctite. Medium strength loctite for head screws is good enough. strong stength loctite is overkill. Even large bird like Trex 600 and 700 use T43 medium strength loctite to assemble head blade grip and whole kit.... If youuse strongth strength permanent loctite, you may have hard time to loosen screws even apply huge amount heat.
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Old May 15, 2012, 11:35 PM
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Which loctite to use is an subject where you'll receive varying opinions.

Using ZAP Z-71 Red (permanent thread locker) on main blade grip bolts, main blade grip shaft, main blade grip ball joints and swash plate ball joints. Never had a problem getting them off and I've rebuilt my head at least three times over and am on my third swash plate. The swash is made of soft aluminum such that I use this thread locker and just snug tight them ball joints. Never had to use heat to get any of these components off. Perhaps because these bolts and fasteners are so small in size and surface area.

Using Loctite 242 Blue (removable thread locker) on all other metal to metal components, especially in the 4F200 tail which I consider a higher service area.

There's my opinion based on my experience with 4F200 assembly.
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Old May 16, 2012, 12:50 AM
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I am using this stuff here at the moment: http://www.wowhobbies.com/asc1596thr...c10andt41.aspx

So far the only time i have had ANYTHING come loose on this heli in flight was when i flew it with unbalanced blades after trying to repair a cracked blade. A ball joint unscrewed itself. I then took apart the whole swash, installed a new ball joint and used the above to thread lock it. I've only had about 10 flights but its still solid tight.

I also had the same experience with the tail set screw and others. Mine was a wow hobbies model, I'm pretty sure the one set screw was actually replaced with a tapping screw and not the machine screw it should be.. It broke super easy, i didn't even have to put any pressure and the head came off. There was at least 3 all together that broke. I ended up rebuilding the whole tail from the boom back with new parts. So far nothing has came loose in more than 35 flights. I keep checking though.

The 100w soldering iron worked great, i just got it red hot and touched the screw for a few seconds and the first 2 came out with a little fight but easy still. The thrid ended up stripping the wrench hole. I think i make it too hot! I went out to the work shop and cut a groove in the head with a dremel and was able to remove it the rest of the way with a flat head screw driver. I put it back together with the above thread lock and will hope for the best. All of my tracking is off by lots again so I think it worked. Once i realign everything it should be true again.
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Old May 16, 2012, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
I am using this stuff here at the moment: http://www.wowhobbies.com/asc1596thr...c10andt41.aspx

So far the only time i have had ANYTHING come loose on this heli in flight was when i flew it with unbalanced blades after trying to repair a cracked blade. A ball joint unscrewed itself. I then took apart the whole swash, installed a new ball joint and used the above to thread lock it. I've only had about 10 flights but its still solid tight.

I also had the same experience with the tail set screw and others. Mine was a wow hobbies model, I'm pretty sure the one set screw was actually replaced with a tapping screw and not the machine screw it should be.. It broke super easy, i didn't even have to put any pressure and the head came off. There was at least 3 all together that broke. I ended up rebuilding the whole tail from the boom back with new parts. So far nothing has came loose in more than 35 flights. I keep checking though.

The 100w soldering iron worked great, i just got it red hot and touched the screw for a few seconds and the first 2 came out with a little fight but easy still. The thrid ended up stripping the wrench hole. I think i make it too hot! I went out to the work shop and cut a groove in the head with a dremel and was able to remove it the rest of the way with a flat head screw driver. I put it back together with the above thread lock and will hope for the best. All of my tracking is off by lots again so I think it worked. Once i realign everything it should be true again.
The one you use ASC1596 blue threadlocker from Team Associated is medium strength threadlock, some like commerical loctite 242. Now, loctite 242 is replaced by new formualtion loctite 243, which is also medium strength, but oil resistant, temperature resistant up to 360F and need no activator (primer) for passive metal like aluminum. You should be fine once apply ASC1596 to your metal parts.

Usually, I use loctite 243 (old formulation) for passive metal aluminum parts as it is more resistant to oil contamination.

s.p. also, for bnf & rft package other than build kit, I will check all screws and apply loctite by myself. I found it's not first thing some screws like from walkera has no loctite applied to screws for metal parts.
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Old May 16, 2012, 10:03 PM
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Ok, so i'm still fighting blade tracking. I'm a bit of a perfectionist so i want it as good as i can. It's close right now but I'm just having this odd problem I've never experienced before and I'm guessing my rotor head might be bent or something.

If i'm looking at the left side of the helicopter and I spin it up the blade tracking on over the tail (right side) is almost perfect, but the tracking on over the nose (left side) is off by a good little bit. I can only seem to meet in the middle and I'm not quite sure why.
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Old May 16, 2012, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Ok, so i'm still fighting blade tracking. I'm a bit of a perfectionist so i want it as good as i can. It's close right now but I'm just having this odd problem I've never experienced before and I'm guessing my rotor head might be bent or something.

If i'm looking at the left side of the helicopter and I spin it up the blade tracking on over the tail (right side) is almost perfect, but the tracking on over the nose (left side) is off by a good little bit. I can only seem to meet in the middle and I'm not quite sure why.
I cannot if you mentioned before or ot, you converted F200 to 2 blades fbl or you still use 3 blades. May be I mixed up someone who did it. Track Multi-blade is a bit tricky. need more info on your fbl head, i.e. 2 blades or 3 blades.
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Old May 17, 2012, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by wlee1017 View Post
I cannot if you mentioned before or ot, you converted F200 to 2 blades fbl or you still use 3 blades. May be I mixed up someone who did it. Track Multi-blade is a bit tricky. need more info on your fbl head, i.e. 2 blades or 3 blades.
Currently running the 3 blade head. It looks like right now i have 2 of the 3 blades in track but the one blade does not seem to want to line up on one side or the other.
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