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Old May 06, 2012, 04:47 PM
Kungsangen, Stockholm, Sweden
z_dad's Avatar
Sweden, Upplands-Bro Municipality
Joined Dec 2011
263 Posts
It feels good to find the cause of a problem and solve it, isn't it?
The tire in the picture still has the molding fuzz left in the middle.
You drive hard.. and stock.

On the other hand, you stated:
"I am running PMT treaded tires (stock rules) and it does it with either used or new ones.
I tried a slick front tire, a slick rear, (always PMT200, from Clark), combinations of all the above...
I even tried the shortest wheelbase positions of the swing arms, but still the same occurs."

How is it, you solved your problem among solutions earlier tested and rejected?
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Old May 06, 2012, 06:45 PM
www.steliosh.net/rcmoto/
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Athens, Greece
Joined Oct 2003
3,343 Posts
I know!
I had tried an old slick, one of my old ones, since Lostallo, or maybe earlier still...
I realized that, after I wrote it... when I got home and serviced the bike... And I have marked all my tires with dates and what inserts are in there, so I can select...
However, I have two sets of slicks glued by Clark, and two sets of treaded, also by Clark.
Today I ran an almost new (comparatively!) Clarks slick and it worked!
Both my treaded fronts are almost the same,, chunks missing... terrible!
The "older" Clark's front slick has started doing the "edge" so I just mounted the newer one...
I did one more change since last time: 3000cps oil and black springs on the front shocks, while before these it was 2000cps (both Xray oils) and red springs (slightly softer -not alot- than blacks).
One thing about rear slicks... they do not SEEM to suffer as much as the treaded ones... however, them being slicks you cannot visibly tell wear, as you can do with treaded ones...
But at least the rear treaded tires are still useable even being almost slicks...
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Old May 06, 2012, 09:26 PM
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canvey island
Joined Jul 2002
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Hi steliosh , im glad I just run my bikes around a carpark and have fun with what ever I have you take it to another level
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Old May 07, 2012, 02:22 AM
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Gartenzwerg's Avatar
Austria
Joined Jan 2007
663 Posts
The missing chunks on the front tire are usually caused by crashes, or when the tires touches ground after a Headshake. I had this on my NF 509 as well.
Does your SB5 shake it's head a lot, or did you find a setup that keeps this under control?
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Old May 07, 2012, 02:51 AM
never stop building
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Memphis, TN USA
Joined Apr 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steliosh View Post
I know!
I had tried an old slick, one of my old ones, since Lostallo, or maybe earlier still...
I realized that, after I wrote it... when I got home and serviced the bike... And I have marked all my tires with dates and what inserts are in there, so I can select...
However, I have two sets of slicks glued by Clark, and two sets of treaded, also by Clark.
Today I ran an almost new (comparatively!) Clarks slick and it worked!
Both my treaded fronts are almost the same,, chunks missing... terrible!
The "older" Clark's front slick has started doing the "edge" so I just mounted the newer one...
I did one more change since last time: 3000cps oil and black springs on the front shocks, while before these it was 2000cps (both Xray oils) and red springs (slightly softer -not alot- than blacks).
One thing about rear slicks... they do not SEEM to suffer as much as the treaded ones... however, them being slicks you cannot visibly tell wear, as you can do with treaded ones...
But at least the rear treaded tires are still useable even being almost slicks...
I wondered about the slick vs tread wear also and concluded that there is less material used in the treaded tire. Treaded is a slick with the rubber grooved out causing faster wear..just a theory of mine though..I guess if I weighed them it would be evidence but have not gone to the trouble
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Old May 07, 2012, 04:57 AM
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Tirol
Joined Jul 2009
1,115 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dragbikebam View Post
I wondered about the slick vs tread wear also and concluded that there is less material used in the treaded tire. Treaded is a slick with the rubber grooved out causing faster wear..just a theory of mine though..I guess if I weighed them it would be evidence but have not gone to the trouble
This is 100% true. The tires have the identical crossection. The treaded tires just have the grooves cut. The tires are about 10-15g lighter up front and 15-20g lighter rear. Thats why they wear faster. I havent run treaded tires since 2009. I also use slicks in the wet.
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Old May 07, 2012, 05:14 AM
www.steliosh.net/rcmoto/
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Athens, Greece
Joined Oct 2003
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Good morning everyone!
@ Bernhard: No, somehow, despite the not-so-good traction of "my" track, I rarely have headshakes... usually it's my fault, really (read: no good use of throttle, or brakes)

I agree with Edi... they are the same, with material missing already from where it's needed...
Anyway, I continue practising with front slicks and we will see...
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Old May 07, 2012, 06:27 PM
Kungsangen, Stockholm, Sweden
z_dad's Avatar
Sweden, Upplands-Bro Municipality
Joined Dec 2011
263 Posts
About the threaded tires.
They can be mounted in both directions.
The thread pattern pointing forward like an arrow on top of the wheel, witch seems the most common, and the opposite that's pointing the pattern to the rear.
The "forward" one has the threads working directly across the forces at the contact patch while cornering, thus wiggling the beams.
Mounting the tire reversed makes the forces of cornering work along the beams.

Now, the questions:
Is there a difference in characteristics?
More/less wear?
Heat buildup?

Since steliosh has wear issues and everyone is concerned about the summer heat in Riccone, this may be of interest.
I may also dig too deep in theories (I have a tendency to do that sometimes)
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Old May 08, 2012, 12:40 AM
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Athens, Greece
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the wear issues are starting after 20 or so batteries... and also my track has med-lo traction... so I THINK my tires slide a lot...
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Old May 08, 2012, 02:38 AM
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Austria
Joined Jan 2007
663 Posts
..if I remember correctly, Aaron used one set of threaded PMTs at the last race in Riccione - for all heats in both classes, Stock and Superbike. (He used his Stockbike in the Superbike class)
So if the problems start after 20 batteries, you shouldn't have a problem.
One Set for timed heats (4-5 Batteries?), and one set for the finals (7-8 Batteries if you start from quarter finals, and get into the main finals).
But I do agree, a lot of training might become expensive..
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Old May 08, 2012, 02:57 AM
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Tirol
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My personal not so talented experiance about slick vs. treaded.
For pure training I would just use 200s slick. There is a difference
in feel but under the line: if you are fast on slicks you will be fast
on the treaded.
The main cause for the different feel is the front tire. The rear
hardly makes a difference. The front tire has a weird crosssection:
first it has contact on the middle stripe, leaning into a turn it then
"falls" into the groove giving the bike that weird feel.
Driving slicks will give you a bit more laps. Now and then you can
use a treaded front tire just to be "up to date". But for brainless
traininglaps or fundriving I would just put on 200 Slicks and forget
about ruining your "grooves"
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Old May 08, 2012, 12:35 PM
www.steliosh.net/rcmoto/
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Athens, Greece
Joined Oct 2003
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I agree with Edi, and I just run my slicks (of any age!) fronts...
I will get two sets of new treaded tires (Clark's probably!) for the Warm Up, and then two more for the Worlds, as Bernhard said...
In the meantime, it will be only slicks...
And to be honest, me being mid pack as a driver (or lower... Yes, I know what I can do with the bike!) I cannot feel a lot of difference between the two types of tires, except for this: When the treaded front warms up, at around 4-5 minute, it starts "wobbling" or doing the "fold" trick!
I cannot see any difference of behaviour with the slicks, throughout a whole 10 or 12 minute session...
Also, I cannot see any difference on the rear... I "feel" it works the same, be it slick or treaded...
I also believe (but it will have to prove itself, this one, in two weeks) that in high traction tracks the wear is LESS than tracks with not so good traction, where the tires have to work "harder" to find traction... But then again, as I said, I m not a top-10 driver. OK, if there are 10 drivers, I AM a top-10!!!!
At Riccione in October i was 6th out of 9, but at the Worlds I was in the lower half of the results....
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Old May 08, 2012, 01:07 PM
Editor, RCCA
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Joined Nov 2004
3,211 Posts
I still find the PMT 200 slicks amazing. Even after a set has been sitting unused for months, all it takes is a wipedown with full-strength Simple Green then a couple of hard laps on the track to get all the dead rubber off. Or, if you are so inclined, an apply-and-dry of proper traction compound then wipe them off well, and they are back up to near full traction.

As for the cut slicks, I can echo Edi's and Stelios' experiences -- they look pretty, but wear at a much faster rate, especially on the edges, where the "meat" is needed the most. And the few times I've run in the wet (we don't do that here -- rain in SoCal?), the full slicks gripped amazingly well.
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Old May 08, 2012, 01:07 PM
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Joined Jan 2012
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@steliosh,

Your tyres have been sent today. Run them in carefully without picking up any dust for about 5 minutes. Clean them with water (never use brake cleaner) and put them aside until the pre worlds.

Be aware the fact that they will not perform well for the first fiew minutes in riccione. Tyres are somehow living rubber. They need to adopt the surface you run them on.

Running them in carefully will gain livetime of the front tyre dramaticly.
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Old May 08, 2012, 02:17 PM
www.steliosh.net/rcmoto/
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Athens, Greece
Joined Oct 2003
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Thanks, Clark. I will do this carefully.
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