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Old Jul 22, 2010, 01:51 AM
Building with TLAR precision
Zenmaniac's Avatar
near Madison, WI
Joined Jan 2009
2,757 Posts
Geez...

I thought this was going to be a simple build-along thread for what seemed to be a simple little plane. But everyone's talking about plugs and molds and Trizact and sub-noses and PVA and whatever. And then there's me, the newbie, trying to figure out how to do a simple lost-foam pod.

I figure the best thing is to admit my failures and learn and move on.

Failure #1. Tried to get 200gsm fiberglass cloth to bend around the tip of a test nosecone. Cut it, like I would a taped nose, tried to wet it -- the strands started coming apart, wrapped plastic wrap around, put it in a plastic bag and duct tape to the hose of my shop vac (). The results were exactly as you're laughing about right now... check out the first picture. It looks like a street urchin with a wad of snot that dried on.

Failure #2? (now in progress). I ordered some 1.5" FG sleeve and 1.5" FG/CF sleeve material. This might actually work (I'll have a better idea tomorrow), it conformed nicely to the pod shape, see the test below, in FG. I'm a little concerned that the material at the tip of the nose looks a little wrinkled, and not sure what I'll have to do to get that right. I'm thinking that I might have to do a lot of shaping and then repairing with microballoons. If this looks like it could work, I'll probably get some large heat-shrink tubing to use as a poor-man's vacuum system for the pod.

Question, what weight pod should I be shooting for in a Glass Sally? I'd rather build with more structural weight than build really light and then add dead weight later.

Suggestions for anything? I'll keep posting so you guys can keep laughing!

Thanks.

-= Dave
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 02:34 AM
Stirring the pot
johannlochner's Avatar
Port Elizabeth South Africa
Joined Jun 2008
4,023 Posts
Laughing????
Amusing perhaps....
Only because anyone that has tried this has been there!
I find my own antics rather frustrating...
And far from amusing at the time!
It is only afterwords that I can smile at my attempts....

You are doing great Dave!
Follow you nose....
The one problem standing on a soap box is that you are bombarded with well intended advice (we all do it our own preferred way)
It's possible to go into information overload!
There are some very competent and knowledgeable members here, but don't forget that you ain't going into production and you are doing this for fun!
Keep to the basics and don't be scared to try!
Have fun!
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 07:14 AM
Stirring the pot
johannlochner's Avatar
Port Elizabeth South Africa
Joined Jun 2008
4,023 Posts
Great stuff guys!
I like where this tread is going!
The same plane...
And many ways to achieve the same end result! (hopefully)
Soooo... We have:
1. Full fuselage using the moulded approach
2. Moulded pod and bagged tail,
3. Lost foam layup.
Any others around???
Keep it up!
What happened to Sleedo, Like2fly and the others??
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 09:43 AM
Registered User
United States, CA, Berkeley
Joined Feb 2007
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sleeve should work...

thanks for posting Zenmaniac... it can definitely be intimidating to post stuff you dont like on rcg, but its the best way to get answers! Plus it can be a catharsis of sorts to get a botched project off your chest (I've found).

Not that you've botched anything . Looks like the sleeve thing will work great. I'm assuming you've searched under 'carbon sock' on rcg? there are a few nice threads about this technique. Yeah you have to spend time refinishing, but no big deal. Oh, and I recently got the video discussed here, but barely watched it yet. He uses a sock/pod approach, it would be perfect for you. If I had watched more of it I could advise you better.

I did it on my Destiny fuse and it worked great, so you should be fine. I ended up with a hole in my nose, but just filled it with splooge. I hear that youre 'supposed' to use special non-stick heat shrink?? Maybe Soller composites sells it?

good luck and pls keep up the posts. No one's laughing at you, I promise, its all part of the fun.

Ben

btw: w your attempt #1, try LIGHTLY spraying your glass with 3m77, use a little lighter glass (3.7 oz maybe) bias cut along the long axis of your cone and use two pieces to put a single layer on each half of your full nosecone, THEN wet it out. it might work out better, you can just overlap the seams a bit..
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 12:12 PM
Just fly it!
wyowindworks's Avatar
Cody, WY
Joined Nov 2007
6,915 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jirvin_4505 View Post
Hi Adam do you have any posts/pics describing these little dremel adapted polishing pads?

cheers jeff
Jeff, I'm not at home right now. I've searched trying to find the thread that I posted pictures in. When I get back home I'll upload some photos.
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 03:34 PM
Fly fast, Dont crash.
Thepasty's Avatar
Cornwall, UK
Joined Sep 2006
2,459 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenmaniac View Post

Suggestions for anything? I'll keep posting so you guys can keep laughing!

Thanks.

-= Dave
Hey Dave, as Ben says, never be worried about getting stuck in and asking whatever you need to ask, we all start somewhere, I'm pretty new to the whole thing and ask plenty of silly questions

As for your pod layup, I've got 3 layers of 200g glass on mine, its total overkill but its hard as nails and I still needed to add lead to the nose for balance. I added a carbon bandage to where I split the pod too, its not needed tho.
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Old Jul 22, 2010, 10:26 PM
Building with TLAR precision
Zenmaniac's Avatar
near Madison, WI
Joined Jan 2009
2,757 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepasty View Post
Hey Dave, as Ben says, never be worried about getting stuck in and asking whatever you need to ask, we all start somewhere, I'm pretty new to the whole thing and ask plenty of silly questions

As for your pod layup, I've got 3 layers of 200g glass on mine, its total overkill but its hard as nails and I still needed to add lead to the nose for balance. I added a carbon bandage to where I split the pod too, its not needed tho.
Thanks for your votes of confidence, guys. Got home from work today and checked out layer one of the test pod. Looks pretty good -- relatively speaking, anyway. I'm going to let it cure tonight, see what I can do with the nose tomorrow, and add another layer of FG or the CF/FG sleeve product over the weekend. Just playin to see what happens. Then I'll de-foam, and see what comes out. Probably should practice a finish coat of sploog to sand down and see how smooth I can get it.

Thanks for the tip on the weight, Steve. That gives me a good guideline on what to shoot for. You were going to post a picture of your split pod and internal keel -- can you still do that?

Anyway, I'll keep watching you guys and your mold work, and keep looking up the terminology as you keep firing it out.

-= Dave
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Old Jul 23, 2010, 02:40 AM
Fly fast, Dont crash.
Thepasty's Avatar
Cornwall, UK
Joined Sep 2006
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Hey Ben

Check this kinda build thread for my first composite Sally.... Carbon Sally

No moulds or anything, straight vac bagging and lost foam.

http://www.rcmf.co.uk/4um/index.php/topic,62891.0.html

Heres a pic extracted from it showing the nose, I've done the same on my current glass Sally.

Nothing fancy, just functional.
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Old Jul 23, 2010, 10:42 AM
Building with TLAR precision
Zenmaniac's Avatar
near Madison, WI
Joined Jan 2009
2,757 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepasty View Post
Heres a pic extracted from it showing the nose, I've done the same on my current glass Sally.

Nothing fancy, just functional.
That picture is brilliant, Steve. Not at all what I had imagined, but I can see how perfectly functional it is. I am inspired by the simplicity!

I couldn't wait to put any finishing touches on my first glass sock attempt, so I melted the foam about 1 AM last night -- IT WORKS! I actually got something with some semblance of a shape of the Sally. I'll post a picture later.

-= Dave
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Old Jul 23, 2010, 11:55 AM
Fly fast, Dont crash.
Thepasty's Avatar
Cornwall, UK
Joined Sep 2006
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I like simple

The keel approach works well, gives you something to stick your gear, holds the nose cone in place (with the aid of the little side tabs) and adds a load of strength.

The keel pictured above is ply but the keel in my light glass version is 6mm balsa and it still work a treat, its had a good few prangs with no sign of breaking.

Glad to hear you got something that looks like a pod, its a great feeling when you take the foam and tape out of your first .... now to build the rest of it!
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Old Jul 23, 2010, 04:55 PM
Building with TLAR precision
Zenmaniac's Avatar
near Madison, WI
Joined Jan 2009
2,757 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepasty View Post
I like simple

The keel approach works well, gives you something to stick your gear, holds the nose cone in place (with the aid of the little side tabs) and adds a load of strength.

The keel pictured above is ply but the keel in my light glass version is 6mm balsa and it still work a treat, its had a good few prangs with no sign of breaking.

Glad to hear you got something that looks like a pod, its a great feeling when you take the foam and tape out of your first .... now to build the rest of it!
My image of a keel was from my sailing experience, something running along the bottom of the boat. Not quite the same!
So glad you posted the picture!

If you ended up putting lead in the nose of the Glass Sally, I don't see any reason not to use ply, right?

Here's the melted test pod. only one layer of heavy duty glass sleeve, but a reasonable, though not glamorous, beginning. Not as phallic as Ben's, but then I didn't model it after myself. If I did that, I'd have to upscale the plans by 200%

-= Dave
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Last edited by Zenmaniac; Jul 23, 2010 at 05:10 PM.
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Old Jul 23, 2010, 05:13 PM
Fly fast, Dont crash.
Thepasty's Avatar
Cornwall, UK
Joined Sep 2006
2,459 Posts
now thats a proper Sally shape pod
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Old Jul 23, 2010, 07:30 PM
Stirring the pot
johannlochner's Avatar
Port Elizabeth South Africa
Joined Jun 2008
4,023 Posts
Mine is 21"
Not that size matters....

So....
As I could not fly this afternoon...
I've cut out the splitter board and and placed the plug in with "putty and cleaned up the edges.
The plug has been polished up with Mirror Glaze....
Which prevents me from using PVA as it would "fish eye"
I should have used Frekote, but I ain't got any...
And I've not experimented with PVA yet...
Sooo....
Here we go again!
At least I know I can fix it if I get a bit of a "stick-up"
(Also why I stayed away from the tooling gel)
I'm just waiting for the gel coat to Gel before putting on the next coat...
And then some light glass!
Fingers crossed!
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Old Jul 24, 2010, 02:29 AM
Fly fast, Dont crash.
Thepasty's Avatar
Cornwall, UK
Joined Sep 2006
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How exciting!!

What did you use for your splitter board?

When you say putty, is that the stuff used for windows?

AND... The gel coat, that nice blue , is that something you've made from components or bought off the shelf?
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Old Jul 24, 2010, 08:29 AM
Stirring the pot
johannlochner's Avatar
Port Elizabeth South Africa
Joined Jun 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepasty View Post
How exciting!!

What did you use for your splitter board?

I use melamine particle board. Nothing sticks to it if you give it a coat of wax release.

When you say putty, is that the stuff used for windows?

It's almost like children's play clay or plasticine. But this one is made for composites and is inert to styrene's etc, and won't react negatively.
You could probably use window putty, but it is an oil based product and may affect the release wax?????
I don't know.


AND... The gel coat, that nice blue , is that something you've made from components or bought off the shelf?
The gel coat is an off the shelf product. Epoxy based gel coat and not the usual polyester based one.....

This is what the back of the splitter board looks like.
The putty holds the plug in place and is worked into the joint on the front side, and then trimmed flush with the board. This gives a level surface to the plug edge.
You gotta try some time!!
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