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Old Jun 16, 2010, 03:11 PM
RELAX. You'll live longer
785boats's Avatar
Brisbane- Australia
Joined Jul 2007
3,264 Posts
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Torpedo Boats

H guys.
I've been searching around the web looking for old torpedo boats, mainly from the 1800's, & came across this site. There's a couple there I will build.
http://www.naval-history.net/PhotoZHinds.htm

But my main question is, does anyone have any information /plans for that German Type 5B boat at the top of the page? If you scroll down there are more images of it at the bottom of the page too.
I would love to give that one a go in the future too. Can't find any drawings for it but I'm sure I could draft something up with some more info.
Cheers.
Paul.
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Old Jun 16, 2010, 04:22 PM
3 Blades to the Wind
Shaun Hendricks's Avatar
Atascadero, California, United States
Joined Oct 2004
4,085 Posts
Hydrofoils are tricky beasts and that one is turbine based. The page is very cool. Good luck with that 5b...
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Old Jun 16, 2010, 04:34 PM
"day ain't over yet-"
der kapitan's Avatar
Western N.Y. winemaking country
Joined Jun 2005
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785boats, that's a nice link you found.

For what it's worth, Microglass offers about five of those torpedo boats, all three U.S. PT-boats, the German s-boat, and the Italian MAS boat.

The British Vosper Perkasa and the Fairmile D are in the works---.
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Old Jun 16, 2010, 06:38 PM
Submarines, etc.
tsenecal's Avatar
Arvada, Colorado
Joined May 2005
1,601 Posts
kap,

i assume the vosper and fairmile will be 1:32nd scale?
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Old Jun 16, 2010, 08:55 PM
"day ain't over yet-"
der kapitan's Avatar
Western N.Y. winemaking country
Joined Jun 2005
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Originally Posted by tsenecal View Post
kap,

i assume the vosper and fairmile will be 1:32nd scale?
Hi Tim, yup, 1:32 scale, just like the others---.
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Old Jun 16, 2010, 11:19 PM
Naval gazing
United States, MA, Boston
Joined May 2008
1,232 Posts
this should also get posted on the maritime art thread. I love these!

I think 32nd Parallel made another nazi planned hydrofoil. it had glass-domed gun turrets like the predecessor to the PT-103 class American boats. Thats all i can remember alas. Did 32nd parallel go out of business? I googled them and all i got was forum entries about their sub models.
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Old Jun 17, 2010, 02:12 AM
Shanghai'd Expat
herrmill's Avatar
Xiaoshan, China
Joined Jun 2006
4,616 Posts
Paul, I've got a few PDF books that you might be interested in seeing but here's another website with more info on the 5B: http://strangevehicles.greyfalcon.us/TR.htm Gantu, who occasionally posts in the submarine forum, will be your best source for 5B info & plans. You can contact him via his website: http://www.theplan-z.com

Another option you may want to consider that would be simpler to build would be the Manta craft or jet powered Tornado attack boat designs that were being developed towards the end of the war. The Tornado was a trimaran using the same pulse jet engine used on the V1 buzz bombs. There are scale models available on both of these that you can use for reference on a scratch build.

Here's some info on the Manta:

The design of the Manta or 'sting-ray' was an example of how frustrated designers develop fantastic ideas after years of suppression and denial by officials without imagination. During the breakdown of the Third Reich the technocratic control decreased and one of the most fantastic vessels ever designed was born in the minds of certain designers who had 'dropped out' of the true political/miIitary reality - still believing in the 'Endsieg' although Allied troops were already fighting in Germany.

The 'Manta' was a curious mixture of trimaran and aircraft. Both outer hulls consisting of 'Schwertwal II' units with the centre hull housing the two-man crew and a diesel engine. These three cylindrical hulls were linked by wing-like structures, the vessel also having a pair of aircraft wheels to enable it to roll over a beach and into the water.

The 'Manta' was intended to operate in a variety of modes, namely - (a) gliding on the waves at a speed of 50kts; (b) Diesel-propelled snorkeling; (c) underwater chasing at 30kts with Walter-propulsion; (d) underwater creeping at 8kts with an electric motor. As far as known this fantastic device was never fully designed, or tested as a model.
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Old Jun 17, 2010, 02:22 AM
Keep a Steady Strain....
capntroy's Avatar
Orange County, CA
Joined Nov 2007
1,249 Posts
spacephrawg - the German hydrofoil model that 32nd Parallel produced was of the experimental VS-8. I saw a completed model running (and maintaining flight) many years ago, and it was pretty cool. Unfortunately, the real VS-8 was a miserable failure and never went into production.

And yes, 32nd Parallel have been out of business for 10-12 years now...
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Old Jun 17, 2010, 10:02 AM
"day ain't over yet-"
der kapitan's Avatar
Western N.Y. winemaking country
Joined Jun 2005
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Troy, regarding the news on 32nd Parallel, you beat me to it. I'm thinking that they have been gone for longer than that.

I last saw the owner, Simon Smith at a sub regatta in Groton back about 1996 or so, and he fell off the earth shortly after that, and has disappeared without a trace---.

Lee Upshaw was there too, and he may be able to fix the date a bit more accurately.
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Old Jun 17, 2010, 11:25 AM
3 Blades to the Wind
Shaun Hendricks's Avatar
Atascadero, California, United States
Joined Oct 2004
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A pulse-jet boat using the V-1 engine would have been abysmal. The reason why the German V-1's were successful with a pulsejet is because it was a ONE WAY trip. Those engines didn't have much life left in them after they ran out of fuel. The engine literally beat itself to death.

Modern pulsejets, using resonance and other factors to create the pulses (valveless designs) might be able to handle such a use but the German V-1's were made cheaply and to just get their payload there. A boat from that motor would've been a nightmare to maintain...

Now, using the axial flow jets, those boats might have worked. It looks like the 5b would've used some kind of transmission to drive the propellers, or used the jet engines as 'boost' for high speed runs.
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Old Jun 17, 2010, 01:46 PM
RELAX. You'll live longer
785boats's Avatar
Brisbane- Australia
Joined Jul 2007
3,264 Posts
Thanks for all the info guys. It's much appreciated.
I was actually looking for info on the USS Spyuten Duyvil & the HM Torpedo Boat T.85. Imagine my joy when I found that site with both those images on the same page. But that's when the 5B caught my interest.
I've got plans on the way for the T.85 & the Spyutin Duyvil should be easy to draw up from those images on the site.

Chuck.
Thanks for that link, but I've been through the whole Strange Vehicles site & there's nothing else there on the 5B. But man, there's some brilliant stuff in there.
I sent an Email to Gantu & we'll see what comes of that.
I also sent one to the artist Joseph Hinds to see if he can point me in the right direction too.
The Manta Craft looks cool &, as you say, would be easy to build.

Thanks again to you all.
Paul.
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Old Jun 17, 2010, 08:20 PM
Shanghai'd Expat
herrmill's Avatar
Xiaoshan, China
Joined Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun Hendricks View Post
A pulse-jet boat using the V-1 engine would have been abysmal. The reason why the German V-1's were successful with a pulsejet is because it was a ONE WAY trip. Those engines didn't have much life left in them after they ran out of fuel. The engine literally beat itself to death.
The Tornado was designed explicitly for a one-way trip - it was packed with explosives & meant to be driven towards the target at which point the driver would supposedly release the small escape boat behind it & dive out under the rocket. An advancement of the small Linsen &, just like the Negar & Biber manned torpedos, it undoubtedly would have been to a one-way trip for the driver as well, had it gone into production.

Read Lawrence Patterson's Weapons of Desperation: German Frogmen & Midget Submarines of WWII if you want to learn more about this strange episode of the Nazi war machine.
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Old Jun 17, 2010, 08:44 PM
"day ain't over yet-"
der kapitan's Avatar
Western N.Y. winemaking country
Joined Jun 2005
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"Weapons of desperation", a fitting term for those last-ditch efforts---.

You've really done your homework, Chuck---.
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Old Jun 18, 2010, 12:06 AM
Naval gazing
United States, MA, Boston
Joined May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herrmill View Post
Paul, I've got a few PDF books that you might be interested in seeing but here's another website with more info on the 5B: http://strangevehicles.greyfalcon.us/TR.htm Gantu, who occasionally posts in the submarine forum, will be your best source for 5B info & plans. You can contact him via his website: http://www.theplan-z.com

Another option you may want to consider that would be simpler to build would be the Manta craft or jet powered Tornado attack boat designs that were being developed towards the end of the war. The Tornado was a trimaran using the same pulse jet engine used on the V1 buzz bombs. There are scale models available on both of these that you can use for reference on a scratch build.

Here's some info on the Manta:

The design of the Manta or 'sting-ray' was an example of how frustrated designers develop fantastic ideas after years of suppression and denial by officials without imagination. During the breakdown of the Third Reich the technocratic control decreased and one of the most fantastic vessels ever designed was born in the minds of certain designers who had 'dropped out' of the true political/miIitary reality - still believing in the 'Endsieg' although Allied troops were already fighting in Germany.

The 'Manta' was a curious mixture of trimaran and aircraft. Both outer hulls consisting of 'Schwertwal II' units with the centre hull housing the two-man crew and a diesel engine. These three cylindrical hulls were linked by wing-like structures, the vessel also having a pair of aircraft wheels to enable it to roll over a beach and into the water.

The 'Manta' was intended to operate in a variety of modes, namely - (a) gliding on the waves at a speed of 50kts; (b) Diesel-propelled snorkeling; (c) underwater chasing at 30kts with Walter-propulsion; (d) underwater creeping at 8kts with an electric motor. As far as known this fantastic device was never fully designed, or tested as a model.
I'm a big fan of the tornado boat. I've seen static models of its original version with the submerged propeller and once, somewhere, i saw a drawing of one with the V-1 engine.

I wonder if it would work to make an odd airboat out of this, with a ducted fan inside the V-1 engine shell.

In the science fiction and alternate history communities there exist story and game scenarios where the War ended up involving South America, and you had Germans and their Argentinian friends with helicopter air cavalry, and boats like this Tornado thing zipping around the major rivers, with machine gun emplacements on them. I admit these scenarios exist entirely as excuses to have fictional and prototypical designs from the period, in all sorts of amusing situations, but its still a cool model subject idea, isn't it?
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Old Jun 18, 2010, 10:37 AM
Shanghai'd Expat
herrmill's Avatar
Xiaoshan, China
Joined Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by der kapitan View Post
"Weapons of desperation", a fitting term for those last-ditch efforts---.

You've really done your homework, Chuck---.
Ever since I found Militaryzone's site, I've been doing far more reading than building. Am trying to rectify that latter one...
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