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Old Aug 06, 2012, 05:45 PM
Chris
Canada, NS, Queensland
Joined May 2012
173 Posts
Hey North,

Good to follow your progress. When you're all done, let me be first in line for a 'kit'. I have a brand spankin' new Champ waiting for its winter transformation No pressure...
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Old Aug 07, 2012, 01:31 AM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Dec 2011
6,961 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airhead600cc View Post
Hey North,

Good to follow your progress. When you're all done, let me be first in line for a 'kit'. I have a brand spankin' new Champ waiting for its winter transformation No pressure...
With the insane amount of time I spent on this... 'hope your pockets are deep

Will have video hopefully tomorrow of the whole thing (with the nav lights and wing landing light) assembled and ready to fly... looks killer!

Here's a few screen grabs from some ipod video for now...



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Last edited by North_of_49; Aug 07, 2012 at 02:03 AM.
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Old Aug 07, 2012, 04:52 AM
UMs & parkflyers... for now.
davidterrell80's Avatar
United States, VA, Herndon
Joined Apr 2012
2,960 Posts
It makes me think of Christmas... I think it needs a little Elf Hat logo on the tail.
All kidding aside, it looks wonderful!
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Old Aug 07, 2012, 10:02 AM
Chop it, cut it, bash it
quitcherbitchen's Avatar
United States, CA, La Caņada Flintridge
Joined Jul 2011
5,595 Posts
That's pretty cool.
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Old Aug 08, 2012, 10:31 AM
Registered User
Joined Aug 2011
263 Posts
Rebuilding a shattered Champ here and I want to treat some of the replacement foam parts first, particularly the tailfeathers. I've read here about a reinforced skin of thinned white glue, which certainly can't hurt (and doesn't add much weight/drag).

Do I want common Elmer's white glue? Or am I looking for something more specific at a hobby or craft store?

Thanks in advance fellers!
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Old Aug 08, 2012, 04:03 PM
NotAnotherMomentLostToSei zures
Chap1012's Avatar
United States, MA, Malden
Joined Mar 2008
11,518 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by teflon97239 View Post
Rebuilding a shattered Champ here and I want to treat some of the replacement foam parts first, particularly the tailfeathers. I've read here about a reinforced skin of thinned white glue, which certainly can't hurt (and doesn't add much weight/drag).

Do I want common Elmer's white glue? Or am I looking for something more specific at a hobby or craft store?

Thanks in advance fellers!
I'm a newb at planks/Champs. I have already traced out new tail feathers onto a pattern. Set that aside. I've learned to use "foam safe" CA which is suppose to be oderless as opposed to regular CA. After a repair with "foam safe" repair some opt to use a fine mist spray "chemical" referred to as "kicker." I just repaired my wing (a hairline crack) and used "Great Planes" Pro Foam Safe CA (thick) and then misted it with some "kicker" after about a minute or two. I think many would prefer the "medium" or "thin" CA. I got "thick" because that's all they had

But, she's fixed up like new and awaiting calm winds

Mike.
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Old Aug 08, 2012, 05:57 PM
Registered User
DeBary, FL
Joined Nov 2010
1,719 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by teflon97239 View Post
Rebuilding a shattered Champ here and I want to treat some of the replacement foam parts first, particularly the tailfeathers. I've read here about a reinforced skin of thinned white glue, which certainly can't hurt (and doesn't add much weight/drag).

Do I want common Elmer's white glue? Or am I looking for something more specific at a hobby or craft store?
Don't add anything except a speckle of tape where it's needed. Champ is as nearly perfectly balanced out of the box as any plane. Any massive amounts of weight you add to the -tail- you need to add weight to the -nose- to maintain CG.

Here's how balance works. The longitudinal 'center' of the tail area is appx. 8.5" behind the CG. To maintain CG, for every 'x' amount of weight you add to the tail -behind- the CG you need to add 8.5x that weight 0.85" in -front- of the CG.

Example, let's pick a number and say you use 10 drops of white glue to coat the tail. You need to add a mass equal to EIGHTY FIVE drops of dried white glue and mount it 0.85" in front of the CG.

Example, a few folks talk about laminating tape to the tail surfaces. At a quick eyeball the surface area of the v and h surfaces are 18si. (That's one side not both sides.) The 'balance' amount of weight, added 0.85" in front fo the CG, is a mass equal to 153si of the tape material. a little over a square foot.

The result of adding 'whatever' amount of weight for reinforcement -behind- the CG is drastically multiplied by the amount added in -front- of the CG to retain CG as designed. Sure you can add down elevator, but that raises stall speed and detracts from basic handling stability.

There are only a couple of weak spots that need reinforcement, not the whole surface. I've bent and/or creased 2 spots in my rudder near the top. On each of those spots I added about 1/2si piece of transparent scotch tape, and they've never bent again. I also broke the root of the v-stab, and had to CA that. My H-stab is getting weak and I will add struts up to the v-stab. But I've never broken or even creased the elevator.

Now of course everyone's mileage will vary but I've had *TONS* of 'tail first' landings, cartwheels, and 'on landing wind flips plane over and blows it down the runway' adventures. Wingtips look like a puppy chewed on them. LOL!! I have bonked that thing from every angle possible. Yet in the tail I've done serious damage at only a couple of the weakest points.

White glue BTW is *extremely* brittle. There's *no* flex. The first time it lands on a surface it shouldn't, with a touch too much force, it'll snap.

Oddly the one thing I've never broken is the wing, but that's mostly because early on I added a piece of CF to flatten the dihedral a bunch.

On mine it's the *NOSE* that looks like Frankenstein's monster had a -very- bad day in reconstructive surgery. LOL!! BTW don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread but 'crushed' foam can be 90% 'uncrushed' in hot water.

The other thing that suffered drastically from landing on the tail is the rudder hinges. The coating delaminated from the foam. So I added some -tiny- specks of tape to make new hinges and even with casual use they need frequent inspection and touchup (pressing them back down.)

My main point is that it doesn't need atomic blast reinforcement. Fix the spots that break, as minimally as possible, and those points will become stronger. The weight that you add in places that would never have broken are totally wasted weight.
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Old Aug 08, 2012, 06:32 PM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Dec 2011
6,961 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbarchuk View Post
snip

White glue BTW is *extremely* brittle. There's *no* flex. The first time it lands on a surface it shouldn't, with a touch too much force, it'll snap.

snip
I read about this "strengthening" mod and came to this same conclusion myself without even trying it... seemed to me like alot of extra weight (compared to tape or braces) without the benefit of actually working
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Old Aug 08, 2012, 10:56 PM
Power Wheels Guru
UNGN's Avatar
Southlake, TX
Joined Jan 2008
7,327 Posts
I use White glue to make areas of the foam more abrasion resistant. For areas like the underside of the nose or the wingtips, especially if you fly off cement runways.

Paint goes away on the first nose over, and foam gets removed on every nose over after that if a harder coating isn't applied.
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Old Aug 09, 2012, 11:19 AM
Segelfliegen bedeutet Freiheit
SkyCadet's Avatar
Canada, MB, Winnipeg
Joined May 2010
1,083 Posts
Some white glues, like WeldBond, are somewhat flexible, and forgiving under certain sheer stresses. I had a Bushed champ clip a tree in the winter last year, and the wing was pretty much undamaged, yet I am 90% certain that a significant dent would have resulted otherwise, given how it hit.

SC
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Old Aug 09, 2012, 02:10 PM
Registered User
DeBary, FL
Joined Nov 2010
1,719 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyCadet View Post
Some white glues, like WeldBond, are somewhat flexible, and forgiving under certain sheer stresses.
Yep I was reacting to the Elmers word. There's also 560/canopy glue which smells kinda 'elmersish' but definitely is excellent where flexibility is needed.

The whole reinforcement thing though I take up to only a certain point. If I'm hotrodding and I hit something, well, whatever damage I come away with I figure is a small potatoes compared to all the ooohs and aaahs from the peanut gallery from the many times that I -did- get away with it. LOL!!!!

There's a 'challenge' thread that I want to take a video for. One of the challenges is to fl completely around a tree several times. There's a field near me with three trees in about a half acre area. Two of the trees have about 20-30' spacing between each other and then the treeline. Then the third tree is in a -corner-, with only about 6-8' space to go around it. A larger plane couldn't do this trick at all. I've gone around that tree and around the corner about a dozen times and successfully about 80%. The other two trees are difficult during the part where it 'disappears' behind the tree and all you can do is wait the few seconds till it comes out the other side. A little more practice and I'll be totally competent and comfortable with all 3 trees and then I'll do the vid.
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Old Aug 09, 2012, 08:47 PM
dge
Registered User
United States, TX, Weatherford
Joined Mar 2012
27 Posts
Bad day in aviation

I was flying my champ today in some light wind. I was about 50 ft doing some hard turns when suddenly my wing flew off. Crashed hard. tore the tail off and broke the prop shaft.

Does anyone know if a um p-51 motor and gear box work on a champ? I know the motor works, just not sure about the gears.
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Old Aug 09, 2012, 10:32 PM
UMs & parkflyers... for now.
davidterrell80's Avatar
United States, VA, Herndon
Joined Apr 2012
2,960 Posts
The UM P-51 motor and gearbox works very well! I think the gearing is the same, actually.
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Old Aug 10, 2012, 03:13 PM
Scout CX | mCX2 | mSR | 120SR
North_of_49's Avatar
Canada, AB, Edmonton
Joined Dec 2011
6,961 Posts
LED mod with 7556 timer IC

Got the Champ back together with the LEDs and timer. Am working on combating a weight increase due to the fiberglass circuit board and using a more powerful battery but I may have some solutions for both of those. Did my maiden last night... pure awesomeness Flying in the field out behind my place, it looks like a real plane. There's a road bordering the field at one end, I'm sure people driving by were watching it thinking it was a real plane only higher and farther away... was thinking, what if I looped it?

... or crashed it

The green LED is really bright when viewed head on... lights up the ground like a flashlight for about 20 feet when it's in my hand... I use it to find my way to and from the middle of the field in the dark (I could probably put a higher resistor on it and save some current draw)

Here's some pics and crappy ipod video (non flying). Might get my buddy to video it flying tonight.

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click image to watch at YouTube

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Old Aug 11, 2012, 11:02 AM
Mr. Magoo's Co-Pilot
GRUMPEE's Avatar
USA, CA, San Diego
Joined Sep 2009
1,222 Posts
Sweet Looking Flyer N_49
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