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Old May 14, 2011, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingRtard View Post
Joel,
I am not a scientist by any means what so ever. But I know what I see and don't see. When I put the p51 motor in my champ it was faster but not crazy. When I put my spare sukhoi 26xp motor in the exact same champ about 1 minute after flying, it was faster. Same exact bird and conditions. Test two was flying my mustang stock then throwing the XP motor in it, 5 minute surgery and I felt it was faster also. Not to mention the XP alone is a dater airplane flying side by side to any UM.

Also, I called HH and was talking to a tech about the brick in one of my sukhois. After a bit of conversation with the tech, I started asking about the motors. And what he said after some research was that all the motors are the same except the XP motor. Different place of origin, different specs, and everythIng.

So, if it's the same as the mustang, so be it. But my opinion is that it's better and my Trojan agreed this morning.
The XP's have a new motor from a new MFG, but then so do new Mustang, Trojan and 4-site motors you would buy.

Look for the Motors with 2 holes in the front face. These are the new ones.
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Old May 14, 2011, 02:02 PM
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United States, FL, Jacksonville
Joined May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNGN View Post
The XP's have a new motor from a new MFG, but then so do new Mustang, Trojan and 4-site motors you would buy.

Look for the Motors with 2 holes in the front face. These are the new ones.
Now I'm still confused though. Ive bought all my planes working the past 3 months. And they all have two holes in the front. Most have black backs and some have whites. I'm totally sure it's possible to catch a few from old stock at the same time new ones arrive. But I got a question, how do I tell if I have old or new gens? And has anyone does any testing on specifically the new OR old ones?

Regardless though, I have another mod that helps me test and repair my champ (and all my others) very quickly. I'll get pictures up today since I'm not flying in the rain, YET!!. When you the the fuse apart, the top half has a "hood" in front of the window. So... With proper taping on top and bottom, and a perfect cut that follows the windshield line, my champ has a sweet and very functional hood that is only visible when used. Makes engine swaps very easy. With good forceps, one can also swap and adjust linkages on the control arms. And best of all... It gives a perfect opening to repair and work on the motor mount after hardcore crashes. That happens alot for me.

I'll post pictures today!! Of everything!!
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Old May 14, 2011, 02:34 PM
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All the black backed motors have the same winding spec's. There is a huge variation from motor to motor and sometimes you can get a powerful one and sometimes you get a not so powerful one. Even the not so powerful ones have more thrust than a white endbell motor in a Champ or original sukhoi.

The old motors didn't have holes in the front, the new ones do. The XP was the first plane to get the new motors. That was last year. Anything Horizon ships should has the new motors now. There is nothing special about a current XP motor over an Extra 300 or a motor that now comes in a 4 site.

The XP motors may have a tiny bit more thrust than the others because the wires are shorter, but it shouldn't be all that noticeable in a Champ.
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Old May 14, 2011, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by RacerPaul View Post
Will the Champ be able to carry the keychain camera out of the box? Stock?

Thanks
Paul
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEDbu5VYwzw
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Old May 15, 2011, 10:36 AM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingRtard View Post
Joel,
I am not a scientist by any means what so ever. But I know what I see and don't see. When I put the p51 motor in my champ it was faster but not crazy. When I put my spare sukhoi 26xp motor in the exact same champ about 1 minute after flying, it was faster. Same exact bird and conditions. Test two was flying my mustang stock then throwing the XP motor in it, 5 minute surgery and I felt it was faster also. Not to mention the XP alone is a dater airplane flying side by side to any UM.

Also, I called HH and was talking to a tech about the brick in one of my sukhois. After a bit of conversation with the tech, I started asking about the motors. And what he said after some research was that all the motors are the same except the XP motor. Different place of origin, different specs, and everythIng.

So, if it's the same as the mustang, so be it. But my opinion is that it's better and my Trojan agreed this morning.
FR,

As UNGN noted - it's just the standard variability in output between motors that we've noted since HH produced their first 8.5mm motored planes.

The P-51/4-Site/XP/T-28/F4U definitely use the same black end-bell motor. Only the lead lengths are different. The newer black motor with the holes in the case has been disassembled & compared with the older black end-bell motor, and was found to be electrically & mechanically identical to the original. The Mossie's motors are also the same as the P-51 motor - except that the starboard motor's end-bell is mirror-imaged to prolong brush life with the ccw rotation. The mSR also uses the same motor as the P-51 - with a different pinion. The Champ & the original Sukhoi 26m share the lower-power white end-bell motor. These things have been well-documented by those of us who have been flying & experimenting with these UM ships since the original Sukhoi 26m was released a few years ago.

The Nine Eagles Solo Pro motor has the same power as the P-51 motor, with superior longevity. Their Bravo SX/P-47 motor w/5043 provides a ~30% increase in thrust over the P-51 motor w/5043. (Requires a Hyp 180, at minimum.)

So....what you observed is normal; however it is due to the standard manufacturing variability between samples within the same motor model. It is not due to any electrical difference between the XP, P-51, or T-28 motors. Even a 5% variability in output between samples is noticeable in an airborne application - and we've noted about a 20% spread between samples of the 'P-51 motor'.

Independent static testing (current draw, RPM & thrust data) done by a number of people on the UM forums has confirmed the above.

Joel
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Last edited by turboparker; May 15, 2011 at 10:45 AM.
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Old May 15, 2011, 11:03 AM
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Joel,

Thank you for that clear and accurate summary of the facts about these motors.

Greg
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Old May 15, 2011, 05:47 PM
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United States, FL, Jacksonville
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Originally Posted by olthump View Post
Joel,

Thank you for that clear and accurate summary of the facts about these motors.

Greg
Joel,

I agree with Greg 100%. And I have been proven wrong. I will assume that I simply got lucky with "better" motors. After that extensive summary I feel that I owe you an apology. I do apologize.

Nows I got a few questions. Why was there a series of mustang motors that were bad?why would HH claim the suk motor is better? where do I buy a nine eagles motor. what mods and parts are required for install? And best of all, got any new mods up your sleeve?

Btw to everyone, my laptop has crashed so I will be posting all my pics tonight. Sorry for not getting them up earlier.
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Old May 16, 2011, 08:13 AM
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After some break-in my solo-pro has a little more power than any of the stock replacement motors that have been in my UM T28.

Dave
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Old May 16, 2011, 11:21 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
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East Bethel, MN USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olthump View Post
Joel,

Thank you for that clear and accurate summary of the facts about these motors.

Greg
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingRtard View Post
Joel,

I agree with Greg 100%. And I have been proven wrong. I will assume that I simply got lucky with "better" motors. After that extensive summary I feel that I owe you an apology. I do apologize.

Nows I got a few questions. Why was there a series of mustang motors that were bad?why would HH claim the suk motor is better? where do I buy a nine eagles motor. what mods and parts are required for install? And best of all, got any new mods up your sleeve?

Btw to everyone, my laptop has crashed so I will be posting all my pics tonight. Sorry for not getting them up earlier.
Thanks, guys!

FRT - no apology needed! This stuff is tough to keep track of sometimes, and there is plenty of misinformation flying around.

Here's a thread on putting the Nine Eagles motors in UM planes that use the 8.5mm motor mount.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1326158

Either motor requires a pinion & connector swap. If you'd rather not do it yourself, RCBabbel sells them ready to go.

Here's a clip of mine with an SP motor, 5043 prop, and Hyp 180 cell. The SX motor provides ~30% more power than this:

Performance demo: HobbyZone Champ w/SP motor/GWS 5043/Hyp 180 - vertical, aerobatics, outside loop! (6 min 50 sec)


Joel
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Old May 19, 2011, 06:56 AM
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United States, FL, Jacksonville
Joined May 2011
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Joel,
Thanks for the info on the super motor. Looks like a new project for me.


To everyone... My computers have all crashed. No idea what happened so they both went to get reformatted. Anyways, I have as many as 15 pics to post on here and no way to do it. If anyone would be so awesome to send me an email, I'll pass them to you if you could post them here. My email is levi<dot>oshea(at)gmail.com

Thanks everyone!!
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Old May 25, 2011, 03:43 PM
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Removeable motor mount

Im experimenting on the Champ motor mounting on the airframe

its always a pain removing the motor/gearbox if you have to work on it like cleaning accumulated gunk on the gears, oiling cleaning the bush bearings, replacing the shaft, replacing the motor etc or just general maintenace or work of the gearbox motor unit.

This is an old gearbox on a new fuselage that im building and I removed all the 4 pins as they were almost breaking off anyway then just added 2 nylon screws embeded on the fuse held by nylon nuts.

do you guys have any other means of quick GB removal ? or do you always have to cut the glue and dig out the gearbox out of the foam everytime.
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Old May 25, 2011, 03:49 PM
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That is a good idea!
Nice method to use on a new fuselage.
Is the gear box tight...what i mean is does it pivot front to back at all?

If it all works out well then i think that will be the way i mount the gear box in a new fuselage when the time comes,thanks!


Ridgewalker
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Old May 25, 2011, 03:55 PM
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hey Ridge

this is just an "experiment" as I have mentioned above and have not flown the a/c as pictured above.

I do hope it works out ok as Im tired of yanking the g/b each time i have to work on it.

Yes the gearbox is tight when the nylon nuts are secured but i intend to still use glue[sparingly] around the edges of the moutn as im worried that a nose-in-the-ground crash might break the foam around the nylon bolt.

will let you guys know as soon as I put flight time on this build and see if it really works
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Old May 25, 2011, 03:59 PM
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Sounds good.

Do you think that there would be room enough for two plastic bolts per side?

Really wouldn't add any weight to worry about and would help it on the event of a nose in...just a thought.


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Old May 25, 2011, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Do you think that there would be room enough for two plastic bolts per side?
its gonna be really tight for 2 nuts[each side]

what i was intending to do is drill 4 holes on the g/b mount and push thin carbon fiber rods through into the foam to replace the 4 original pins that were there.

then I could just easily pull them out if i need to remove the g/b from the airframe

btw those were the smallest nylon bolt/nut i could find seems they don't make em smaller than that !
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