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Old Nov 22, 2011, 08:16 AM
When's the next fly-in?
dee-grose's Avatar
Tanner, Alabama
Joined Oct 2003
6,475 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopower71 View Post
I must really be bad at flying.
Yep, that's it. Case closed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopower71 View Post
But It keeps wanting to stall. I turn the throttle down, to try and get a level glide and still wants to see saw. I tried trimming in some down elevator, and still the same. I double checked the cog and it is right at 28mm.
Help
Seriously though, I'm trying to think what could be wrong. Let's see...

1. Where is the elevator positioned at center-stick with the trim on the radio centered? Is it inline with the horizontal stab? It should be.

2. Do you have full movement of the elevator up and down?

3. Are you on high rates or low rates? (I think it is more fun on low rates)

4. Which battery are you flying? Try it all the way forward in the battery bay. Mine flies just fine no matter where I stick in there.

Let us know how that goes for you.

Andy
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Old Nov 22, 2011, 09:54 AM
More Altitude, Less Attitude!
chickenwing's Avatar
United States, SC, Ninety Six
Joined Mar 2008
547 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopower71 View Post
Wow. I must really be bad at flying. Or something is wrong.
I don't find it that easy to fly. But It keeps wanting to stall. I turn the throttle down, to try and get a level glide and still wants to see saw. I tried trimming in some down elevator, and still the same. I double checked the cog and it is right at 28mm.
Help
Like dee-grose said, check to make sure everything is centered and level. If it is nosing up or porpoising under power, it could be one of many different things. Some things to check... In general, when viewed from the front, the main wing should have no visible twist, and the h-stab should be parallel with the main wing. The v-stab should be perpendicular to the h-stab.

When viewed from the side, the motor shaft should be visibly pointed downward at a slight angle to the center line of the fuselage. This produces downward thrust that keeps the plane from nosing up under power. If you have crashed on the nose, this may have changed. The main wing should be fully seated on its mounting surface on the fuselage.

When viewed from the top, the motor shaft should be visibly pointed to the right at a slight angle to the center line of the fusealge. This right thrust angle is to counteract the torque of the spinning propeller which would otherwise make the plane turn left under power.

Make sure the control rods are not binding. The paint on the fuselage can be a little sticky and prevent the control rods from fully travelling or returning to zero, perhaps leaving the elevator deflected slightly upward.

Zero the control surfaces and fly. If it's still nosing up under power, I would say your problem comes down to one of the following: trim issues, warped fuselage, decalage, or COG problems.

Check to see if the h-stab is fully seated on its mounting surface on the fuselage. If the back end is even a little higher than the front, it will produce the same effect as an elevator trimmed up, even if the elevator is parallel with the h-stab. The same will be true if there is any upward warping of the rear fuselage. Surgery should not be necessary in either case. This is not a precision model, and a few clicks of down elevator trim should make it fly level. If you are compensating for decalage or warpage, downward elevator trim will produce a little drag, but the model will probably fly without noticing.

Last, but not least, push the battery all the way forward and verify stock COG. A tail-heavy plane (even the unrealistically easy to fly Champ) will be unstable, go nose-up under power, and drop the tail near stall speed. Downward elevator trim will help under power, but it will still fly a little twitchy and unsteady. In an unpowered glide, you may feel a loss of control, because it needs a good bit of air pushing over the h-stab to keep the nose down.

It has been my experience on many different models that the recommended COG is more of a guideline than a rule written in stone. If 28mm does not give you the needed forward stability with the battery fully forward, add a little weight to the nose (it doesn't take much) until it flies like you want it to. Excessive paint or repairs to the rear fuselage will change the way your model flies at the stock balancing point.
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Old Nov 22, 2011, 10:21 AM
Big Jim
RTF Thumper's Avatar
United States, ID, Mountain Home
Joined Jun 2011
2,958 Posts
Champ and me a few months ago

Just wanted to share a cool vid I made while I was learning to fly, some new faces here so enjoy.
THE CHAMP SMOKIN LIKE ITS ON FIRE (0 min 57 sec)
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Old Nov 22, 2011, 11:10 AM
The figure "9" Specialist
aeronca's Avatar
A Barrier Island in New Jersey, USA
Joined Oct 2003
3,501 Posts
That was cool, RTF! What did you use for the smoke?

Aeronca
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Old Nov 22, 2011, 11:10 AM
Corsir Crasher
Mopower71's Avatar
United States, NY, Poughkeepsie
Joined Nov 2011
405 Posts
Thanks for the help guys, gives me a bunch of stuff to check when I get home.
Stock battey at forward most spot, elevator is neutral, cog is at 28 mm from leading edge, I checked that last night.
Prop seems to be at the right angle .
I will check the other suggestions.
Iff I add weight to the nose, how much should I start with? I have some stick on lead from the slot
cars.
Might post som pics of it, but that probably wont help
Thanks
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Old Nov 22, 2011, 11:23 AM
More Altitude, Less Attitude!
chickenwing's Avatar
United States, SC, Ninety Six
Joined Mar 2008
547 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopower71 View Post
Iff I add weight to the nose, how much should I start with? I have some stick on lead from the slot cars.
I would start with something very light that can be easily moved or removed. A US dime (2.268g) and a piece of painters tape is what I would start with. Don't make any permanent modifications until you are sure that moving the COG forward what you really want to do. If it is, there is also the option of lengthening the battery slot to shift the weight forward without adding additional weight.
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Old Nov 22, 2011, 01:06 PM
My Champ makes birds mad.
Champflyr's Avatar
Joined Nov 2011
244 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dee-grose View Post
Still going great...last time I flew it. I haven't needed to replace the motor yet. Mine doesn't get flown very regularly these days unfortunately. Too many other things to build and fly.

One thing to keep in mind regarding motor life. I believe in "low and slow" flying with my Champ. I don't carry payloads (like keychain cameras) and I don't fly pylon races at full throttle for the entire battery. I like to see how slow I can make it fly and how long I can make the battery last. I've gotten flights approaching 30 minutes on a calm morning. That was just mostly putting around with a few touch-n-goes thrown in for fun. If you fly the Champ that way, I'm betting the motor will last a LOT longer for you.

Andy
That's great! Thanks! I never do aerobatics and rarely fly at full throttle, just dosen't look "scale" when you do that
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Old Nov 22, 2011, 03:55 PM
Flutter-Bys are fun
Conehead's Avatar
United States, MI, Honor
Joined Dec 2005
5,119 Posts
I don't know about others, I got my Champ at the JR Indoor Event. I had never flown one, I got it out of the box, charged the battery to be sure it was fully charged, bound it to my DX-7 walked out and tossed it into the air. If flew great right from the start. I think I added one click of up and a click of right and that was it, it flew great, right from the box.
I checked the tail feather, they were both great, so I figured, I had nothing to lose.

Then Edge_Pilot put the floats on it. I tossed it with floats and I had to fly with a tad more power, but not much change in the transmitter. I don't remember what I had to do.

For me, this is one of the best flying planes out of the box I have ever owned. The Vapor was also likewise.

I don't know what is happening Mopower71, but something wrong.

Check to make sure the surfaces are working freely.

I am sure someone here will figure out what the problem is and they will lead you down the right path to success.
Conehead
Orrin Eldred
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Old Nov 24, 2011, 09:56 AM
Corsir Crasher
Mopower71's Avatar
United States, NY, Poughkeepsie
Joined Nov 2011
405 Posts
Oh My! What a difference $0.10 makes.
I can't believe how much better this Champ flies. It actually looks like I know what I am doing.
I added a dime with painters tape right in front of the battery slot.Took out the down elevator trim I had put in. Wound her up and let her go. Made multiple laps around my front yard, and it flew so much better, no more porpoising. Just nice smooth flight.
WOW.
Thanks guys for the help.
Have to tell you though, as I was bringing it in for a landing on the driveway, I clipped the wing with my driveway markers. Flying towards myself, went right on the stick, and not left like I wanted to. Put a dent/chunk in the wing right where it meets the fuselage. About 1/4", the same size as the marker. Oh well, I'm learning. It was coming in nice until I made that oops.
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Old Nov 24, 2011, 10:14 AM
The figure "9" Specialist
aeronca's Avatar
A Barrier Island in New Jersey, USA
Joined Oct 2003
3,501 Posts
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Originally Posted by Mopower71 View Post
...Put a dent/chunk in the wing right where it meets the fuselage. About 1/4", the same size as the marker. Oh well, I'm learning. It was coming in nice until I made that oops.
We all do that from time to time.

Aeronca
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Old Nov 24, 2011, 10:25 AM
Suspended Account
Joined Oct 2006
5,302 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopower71 View Post
Oh My! What a difference $0.10 makes.
I can't believe how much better this Champ flies. It actually looks like I know what I am doing.
I added a dime with painters tape right in front of the battery slot.Took out the down elevator trim I had put in. Wound her up and let her go. Made multiple laps around my front yard, and it flew so much better, no more porpoising. Just nice smooth flight.
WOW.
Thanks guys for the help.
Have to tell you though, as I was bringing it in for a landing on the driveway, I clipped the wing with my driveway markers. Flying towards myself, went right on the stick, and not left like I wanted to. Put a dent/chunk in the wing right where it meets the fuselage. About 1/4", the same size as the marker. Oh well, I'm learning. It was coming in nice until I made that oops.
any companies Light weight spackle will do. To fill in missing parts.

Taping the wing tips is a mod way in the thread, as you found out about add'l weight.

A larger battery the 500 mah helps a lot to. less stuff on the champ more fly time.
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Old Nov 24, 2011, 12:12 PM
More Altitude, Less Attitude!
chickenwing's Avatar
United States, SC, Ninety Six
Joined Mar 2008
547 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopower71 View Post
Oh My! What a difference $0.10 makes.
I can't believe how much better this Champ flies. It actually looks like I know what I am doing.
I added a dime with painters tape right in front of the battery slot.Took out the down elevator trim I had put in. Wound her up and let her go. Made multiple laps around my front yard, and it flew so much better, no more porpoising. Just nice smooth flight.
WOW.
Glad it worked out!
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Old Nov 24, 2011, 04:10 PM
Gary
glmccready's Avatar
United States, MD, Salisbury
Joined Mar 2011
2,492 Posts
Been having fun with my Champ, and of course, crashed a few times. An odd problem cropped up today: When I was going vertical into a stall the motor would cut out. I duplicated it in my hand. If I turned the throttle to zero and back up it would restart. Just wondering....maybe I just need a re-bind.
Any ideas?
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Old Nov 24, 2011, 04:33 PM
Suspended Account
Joined Oct 2006
5,302 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by glmccready View Post
Been having fun with my Champ, and of course, crashed a few times. An odd problem cropped up today: When I was going vertical into a stall the motor would cut out. I duplicated it in my hand. If I turned the throttle to zero and back up it would restart. Just wondering....maybe I just need a re-bind.
Any ideas?
more or lesscould that be a LVC low voltage cut off. check another bat. Not good to run the motor in hand they say it has t have air movement..
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Old Nov 29, 2011, 06:25 PM
Flutter-Bys are fun
Conehead's Avatar
United States, MI, Honor
Joined Dec 2005
5,119 Posts
Here is my Champ with floats. They were made by edge-pilot and I got them at the JR Indoor event. We build a lake in the golf dome, 15 feet wide by 60 feet long, or there about. Lights on the inside make it look like a runway with rope lighting and it takes a couple hours to fill, takes about 10 minutes to empty.

Conehead
Orrin Eldred

Edge-pilot makes the floats and covers them. Takes about 60 seconds to change from wheels to floats.
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