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Old Jun 13, 2003, 10:28 AM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
7,668 Posts
Parkflyer Brushless Selection guide

There's enough interest (and I think real data already done) to tackle this problem.

When I have a plane and I want to match a motor, it'd be nice to have real world data to compare motors, gear ratios, props, thrust, etc.

I want this bad enough to do much of the research work, but help is always good. For this spreadsheet, I want to keep it to around 125W max solutions (MiniAC, Astro, Razor, Hacker, PJS, Nippy, MPJ, etc.).

A lot of individual data exists, but it's not anywhere comparable on a spreadsheet. I thought I'd found what I wanted at parkflyermotors.com, but that was a moto-calc spreadsheet. I want a spreadsheet like theirs with more motors and REAL data.

So... here's the to demonstrate the format. I've divided it by gearing for now because most tests divide it that way (throw a motor in a gearbox, then run tests on different packs and props). Later, I want to sort it differently.

This is an excel spreadsheet copy, so it won't be very legible here:

Motor Comparison Data

Direct Drive
Motor KV Prop Cells Amps Watts RPM Thrust Source
Astro 010 14T 2300 5.5x4 6 Nicads 4.5 amps 31 watts 10.8k 4.8 oz AF Website
5.5x4 7 Nicads 5.4 amps 42 watts 11.9k 5.9 oz AF Website
5.5x4 8 Nicads 6.7 amps 60 watts 13.2k 7.2 oz AF Website
5.5x4 9 nicads 7.5 amps 75 watts 14k 8.1 oz AF Website
5.5x4 3s lipo 7.1 70 Tres Wright
5.25x4.75 3s lipo 8 77 Tres Wright
4.75x4.75 3s lipo 6.9 68 Tres Wright








3.X:1 Gear Ratio
Motor KV Ratio Prop Cells Amps Watts RPM Thrust Source
Astro 010 14T 2300 3.3:1 8x6E 8Nicads 3.8 amps 38 watts 5.4 k AF Website
8x6E 10 Nicads 4.5 amps 50 watts 6.2k AF Website

9x6E 8 Nicads 4.0 amps 36 watts 4.8k AF Website
9x6E 10 Nicads 5.2 amps 58 watts 5.7 k AF Website

10x7E 8 Nicads 4.7 amps 42 watts 4.5k AF Website
10x7E 10 Nicads 6.4 amps 75 watts 5.3k AF Website
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Old Jun 13, 2003, 10:31 AM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
7,668 Posts
So here's what I'd like...

If you know of a good thread with real data on one of these little motors (either in a motor thread or a thread about an airplane), please link it here so I can copy it in. It can also be links to mfg data on a website.

That'll save me some time and ensure the motor data you want is included.

Later I'll have someone help me post a link to the file somewhere on a website for easy access.

Melf
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Old Jun 13, 2003, 11:02 AM
Crash Master
Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
Thanks for the effort Melf. There are some manufacturers data that are flawed, so at least one of the data sets should probably be confirmed.

Scouring the threads will be like a scavenger hunt
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Last edited by Gene Bond; Jun 13, 2003 at 11:10 AM.
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Old Jun 13, 2003, 11:08 AM
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WJ Birmingham's Avatar
St. Louis Metro
Joined Apr 2003
2,440 Posts
Sorry Melf... I only posted that information to directly compare motors on the site.

As everyone should know by now, MotoCalc isn't a real life crossover.

I've got a Whattmeters in stock now... Guess I need to buy a postal scale and when my GWS stock comes in, start doing RL tests with the different boxes/props/lipos as a value add for everyone here.
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Old Jun 13, 2003, 11:44 AM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
7,668 Posts
No need to appologize, WJB, that is useful for what it is... The idea is to make a complete table with real data. That'd be a LOT of work to start from scratch. Since I don't have the ability to do such bench testing, my idea is to scrounge up what real data already exists to save someone wanting to do bench tests the rework of data already done.

Then we can complete the real life spreadsheet. A supplier website (I think) would be the ideal place to put such data.

And Geno is right... I'd like to have data from two sources if possible. I started with the Astro data because Tres had some that very closely matched the website.

I have the Astro 010 14T in. Moving on to the Razors.
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Old Jun 13, 2003, 12:16 PM
Lurker
Longmont, Colorado
Joined Nov 2000
493 Posts
Excellent data here on some of the model motors inc. miniac

http://www.flyingmodels.org/motortest/Link_e.htm
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Old Jun 13, 2003, 12:48 PM
wild in the park?
wherndon's Avatar
McDonough, GA
Joined Mar 2003
1,614 Posts
Somewhere in the RCGroups is a cool thread where someone posted a comparison chart of several of the major brushless manufacturers.
I saw it just the other day and thought I bookmarked it.
Now I can't find it again.
They had a handy chart that listed the specs on Hacker, Astro, Razor, and several others...

Anyone know the thread?

Bil
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Old Jun 13, 2003, 01:45 PM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
7,668 Posts
I've heard of this too, Bill, but never have been able to find it.

I'm well into gathering info for this go-around. Here's another poorly-formatted view of the info I have to date.

Next up are the MiniAC's -- thanks Konstant Krash

One thing I've noticed is the Power Forum's bias toward lipo cells. I hope I can find more data on nimh and Nicad chemistry batteries as well.

Melf

Motor Comparison Data
* Value calculated from measured data
Red/Bold values exceed mfg recommendations

Direct Drive
Motor KV Prop Cells Amps Watts RPM Thrust Source
Astro 010 14T 2300 5.5x4 6 Nicads 4.5 amps 31 watts 10.8k 4.8 oz* AF Website
5.5x4 7 Nicads 5.4 amps 42 watts 11.9k 5.9 oz* AF Website
5.5x4 8 Nicads 6.7 amps 60 watts 13.2k 7.2 oz* AF Website
5.5x4 9 nicads 7.5 amps 75 watts 14k 8.1 oz* AF Website
5.5x4 3s lipo 7.1 70 Tres Wright
5.25x4.75 3s lipo 8 77 Tres Wright
4.75x4.75 3s lipo 6.9 68 Tres Wright

PJS 300 1197 9x6SF 3s lipo 9.4 6.2k 12 oz* Jim McPherson
10x4.7 3s lipo 7 5k 12 oz* Billyboy
10x4.7 2s lipo 5.5 4.3k 8.8 oz* Billyboy
9x6E 2s lipo 5.4 4.6k 6.7 oz* Jim McPherson
9x7 2s lipo 6.8 4.1k 4.8 oz* Jim McPherson
10x6HD 2s lipo 5.8 4.7k 10.2 oz* Jim McPherson











3.X:1 Gear Ratio
Motor KV Ratio Prop Cells Amps Watts RPM Thrust Source
Astro 010 14T 2300 3.3:1 8x6E 8Nicads 3.8 amps 38 watts 5.4 k 5.7 oz* AF Website
8x6E 10 Nicads 4.5 amps 50 watts 6.2k 7.5 oz* AF Website

9x6E 8 Nicads 4.0 amps 36 watts 4.8k 7.2 oz* AF Website
9x6E 10 Nicads 5.2 amps 58 watts 5.7 k 10.2 oz* AF Website

10x7E 8 Nicads 4.7 amps 42 watts 4.5k 9.8 oz* AF Website
10x7E 10 Nicads 6.4 amps 75 watts 5.3k 13.4 oz* AF Website

Razor RZ400 3700 3.75:1 9x7 2s lipo 7.4 48 4.5k 6.4 oz* John (JFGrn)
10x4.7 8 KAN 11.5 95 5.6k 15.1 oz uncled
8x6 2s lipo 3.3 23 5.3k Kevin Berger
9x3.8 2s lipo 3.7 24 5k Kevin Berger
9x4.7 2s lipo 3.8 25 4.8k Kevin Berger











4.X:1 Gear Ratio
Motor KV Ratio Prop Cells Amps Watts RPM Thrust Source
9x4.7



5.X:1 Gear Ratio
Motor KV Ratio Prop Cells Amps Watts RPM Thrust Source
Razor RZ400 3700 5.33:1 9x7 3s lipo 7.75 80 5.8k 10.5 oz* Andy (akh223)
Razor RZ400 3700 5.33:1 8x6 E 3s lipo 4.8 53 6.7k 8.8 oz* Andy (akh223)
Razor RZ400 3700 5.33:1 9x7.5E 3s lipo 7 72 5.8k 10.5 oz* Andy (akh223)
Razor RZ400 3700 5.33:1 10x4.7GWS 3s lipo 9 87 5.1k 12.5 oz* Andy (akh223)
Razor RZ400 3700 5.33:1 9x6 3s lipo 5.5 6k 11.3 oz* Jim McPherson
Razor RZ400 3700 5.33:1 10x7 E 3s lipo 7.2 5.5k 14.5 oz* Jim McPherson
Razor RZ400 3700 5.33:1 10x4.7SF 3s lipo 7 5.3k 13.4 oz* Jim McPherson
Razor RZ400 3700 5.33:1 11x7SF 3s lipo 10 4.4k 13.6 oz* Jim McPherson
Razor RZ400 3700 5.33:1 11x7SF 8 HeCell 9.3 81 4.6k Dylan (Dylwad)
Razor RZ400 3700 5.33:1 10x7SF 8 HeCell 7.7 68 5.1k 12.5 oz* Dylan (Dylwad)
Razor RZ400 3700 5.33:1 11x7SF 8 5/4 AAA 7 51 4.1k Dylan (Dylwad)
Razor RZ400 3700 5.33:1 10x7SF 8 5/4 AAA 6 45 4.5k Dylan (Dylwad)
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Old Jun 13, 2003, 02:00 PM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
7,668 Posts
Of course, now that I'm 1/2 way into this I'm thinking there may be a better parkflyer-centric way to go about this.

Many novices to e-flight and brushless motors don't really know how to take data from a chart and say "okay, this will fly my plane the way I want." So now I'm thinking of another approach...

What if, using data as well, we coallated a list of proven power plants for parkflyer planes. I think most people want to know how to power up their P-51 or Switchback, rather than how many amps a Razor draws vs a MiniAC.

This motor comparison is probably still useful, but also probably more Power Systems Forum fodder.

Perhaps a more useful chart would look like this:

(EXAMPLE)
BRUSHLESS SOLUTIONS
AIRPLANE: GWS P-51 Mustang

Motor...Gearbox...Battery Pack......Prop
RZ350....5.33:1....8 cell 5/4 AAA.... 10x8GWS

FLIGHT PERFORMANCE:
Flies much faster than stock, not vertical but plenty of thrust for consecutive loops and authoritative climbs on the standard pack.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

That kind of information is also available all over the forum but not in one place. It might be handy to have a list of planes and proven plants. That way, even a new plane could be matched up with a similar existing flyer for a real-life flight performance view.

Melf
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Old Jun 13, 2003, 02:15 PM
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sunnydayfly's Avatar
Lawrenceville,GA
Joined Mar 2003
170 Posts
I like all of these ideas.
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Old Jun 13, 2003, 03:51 PM
The One....
genovia's Avatar
San Jose, Ca.
Joined Jan 2002
5,813 Posts
This thread is cool :-)....

Terry, w/ ailo mod. Mega 4T, 6x4, 7Kans/Hecells
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Old Jun 13, 2003, 04:43 PM
DNA
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DNA's Avatar
NE Ohio
Joined Jun 2001
3,311 Posts
http://www.flyingmodels.org/motortest/index_e.htm
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Old Jun 13, 2003, 04:53 PM
Will Crash for Food...
Mighty Dingus's Avatar
Orange County, CA
Joined Apr 2002
419 Posts
Great Idea

I think that posting the data by plane rather than motor is a great idea. Posting motor data will not make a ton of sense to most people (ok, me anyways, but I'm a Dingus...), but saying X motor with Y plane will do this... is a great idea. That way people can simply look up their plane, figure out which motor will do what they want, and choose that way. It will really simplify motor and battery choices.

If someone wants to set up a web page for this, I'll donate the web space and bandwidth. I have a couple of domains that I can easily subdomain a site for. If you are interested, PM me.


Richard
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Old Jun 13, 2003, 04:53 PM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
7,668 Posts
Woa! That website is awesome DNA! That's the kind of information I'd like this to supply, but limited in size to the S300 replacement candidates and smaller.

Just what I was hoping was out there. That's a great place to start. Very complete, if narrow in gear selection. No Razor data there yet either. But great stuff on MiniAC and MPJ.

Melf
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Old Jun 13, 2003, 05:16 PM
EFLY GEEK
Electriflight's Avatar
Charlotte, NC
Joined May 2002
455 Posts
I like this idea!!! Melf you are always on the cutting edge. A tool like this would be invaluable to a novice!! I look forward to watching this thread progess and will offer any input when I can.

EF
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