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Old May 01, 2012, 10:46 PM
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United States, GA, Atlanta
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For those of you who have the random full throttle excursions: Do you fly in an area where there may be interference from wireless computer routers? I have only attempted to fly mine once and it nearly flew into my neighbors house. At this very momoent, there are 7 wireless routers within range of my computer. I'm wondering if that could be a problem. I may toss this bird into the car and go out where there is less electronic interference to see if the full throttle stuff stops. On the other hand, none of my other 4-channel helis have the problem. They are 2.4G, so maybe that is why. I also think one of my motors does not work.
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Old May 03, 2012, 05:27 AM
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United Kingdom, Wales, Swffryd
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I believe WiFi routers are on 2.4Ghz....
Quote:
Wikipedia
A Wi-Fi signal occupies five channels in the 2.4 GHz band. Any two channels numbers that differ by five or more, such as 2 and 7, do not overlap. The oft-repeated adage that channels 1, 6, and 11 are the only non-overlapping channels is, therefore, not accurate. Channels 1, 6, and 11 are the only group of three non-overlapping channels in the U.S.
I tried using a 2.4GHz camera with my RDP Rc car controlled ove the internet for FPV use but the WiFi router and camera did not get on as they were both 2.4Ghz, but I still think you have a very valid idea, with that much signal in the air the poor little S022 may well get confused.

There are appear the be a lot of HAM radio people around the way I now live, I'm almost scared to even turn the S022 on, saying that though the S031, S032 & S113G I have are 27Mhz and have had no problems, they share the same protocol which is different to the S022 which might be it's problem as I said in an earlier post.


A field test with next to no signal of anykind is a great idea, let us know how you get on!
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Old May 03, 2012, 07:53 AM
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Newcastle, UK
Joined Jul 2010
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Originally Posted by WoodyBoater View Post
For those of you who have the random full throttle excursions: Do you fly in an area where there may be interference from wireless computer routers? I have only attempted to fly mine once and it nearly flew into my neighbors house. At this very momoent, there are 7 wireless routers within range of my computer. I'm wondering if that could be a problem. I may toss this bird into the car and go out where there is less electronic interference to see if the full throttle stuff stops. On the other hand, none of my other 4-channel helis have the problem. They are 2.4G, so maybe that is why. I also think one of my motors does not work.
I have flown my S022 in the same room as my wireless router with no ill effects at all
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Old May 03, 2012, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by scotsoft View Post
I have flown my S022 in the same room as my wireless router with no ill effects at all
I believe this is a far-fetched notion as well. WiFi, BlueTooth, microwave ovens, many cordless phones, and other random devices make of use the 2.4GHz band and none of these have ever been identified as interacting with 27MHz band devices.

I finally bit the bullet and bought a 27MHz S022 which arrived yesterday.

So far I'm not very far beyond unboxing. What I've noticed though are:

Charging

The charging plug sticking out of the heli has a very short cable, short enough that even with the heli on its side components are stressed when plugged into the charger. Not great but seems ok.

Sequence: plug DC adapter into AC source, plug DC adapter into charger (red LED lights), plug charger into heli's charge plug (green LED lights). When charged, green LED dims almost to "off."

I've charged once so far. I had to interrupt the process to leave the house, and when I unplugged things the green LED was still lit. An hour later I plugged things back in and the green LED was only VERY dim (basically out). I stopped, assuming a full charge.

First "Flight"

Night, confined space, inadequate lighting. Tried to just get the heli into a low level controlled hover.

Scary sounds when powering up the rotors, reminding me of a circular saw tearing through several layers of sheet metal - sheesh. First liftoff, trim/balance seemed too far forward. Second liftoff, heli wanted to spin. Third liftoff, heli drifted left.

Too dangerous to make further attempts under those conditions. This sucker is scary indoors, way easy to crash into something with it.

Note: I saw no surging of power or uncontrolled activation of "throttle." Good sign so far but this was an absurdly limited test.
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Old May 07, 2012, 06:31 PM
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Joined May 2012
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Hi everybody. I have being reading this fantastic forum for last year and have learned lots of new things.
Now i think I can help some of you guys too, particularly those affected by full throttle problem.

I have two S022 helicopters. One works perfectly and the other i bought about 2 weeks ago in broken condition for spare parts. I have tested it and found that it has severe "full throttle" problem. As i turned on heli (with or without tx turned on), in 90% of cases i got full(sometimes not so full) throttle after 1-2 secs.In Other 10% of cases the problem appeared after 5-10 secs. So i have decided to look inside.
I didn't found anything suspicious and almost give up, but then i decided to try to adjust small variable inductor on the rx's pcb.(it couldn't be worst in any case)

I removed the sticky thing from the coil and turned tiny screw inside it CW by 180 degrees from it's initial position.(turning it CCW changed nothing)
Then i started heli firmly holding it in hand and... it didn't budge. Then i turned on transmitter and it worked perfectly!Later, i have found that the control range is way too small comparing to my second S022, so i thought that maybe i have turned screw too much and turned it CCW for about 120 degrees (so it was turned CW from it's initial position for about 60 degrees) Control range increased greatly now my both S022 are flying great.For range testing i fixed the throttle on tx at minimal rpm and with helicopter in hands were going to another room.The change in sound of motors marked the end of control range. I have been testing this heli about a week now and no sign of full throttle problem appeared.(indoor only, default antenna position)

Now to conclusion.
It seems to me that turning that small screw inside the coil CW decreases the sensitivity of the rx to some sort of interferences AND to it's own tx, which will result in decrease of control range.I think that this problem is due to rx sensitivity set too high by manufacturer. So i'd recommend to adjust this screw little by little, until you find optimal position where the problem stops to appear.Also, remembering initial position of the screw is always a good idea. And after test period is over , don't forget to apply something inside the coil to avoid screw shift because of vibrations.
If anyone wants to make this adjustment-please do it at your own risk.I will not be responsible for any damage caused by this tweak.
I hope, somebody can find this useful.
P.S. I'm terribly sorry for my bad English...
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Old May 07, 2012, 07:58 PM
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Hi MIG_31, welcome to the forum and thanks for the info, I always thought that thing was to tune the Rx to the crystal in the Tx (as the Rx has no crystal) in the same way you would tune an old Fm (old as in pre-synthesised tuning), I have always been tempted to replace the 27Mhz crystal in the Tx with one from another band of 27Mhz and retune the PCB to see if I could get more than one S022 airborne at the same time.
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Old May 07, 2012, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by djdavies83 View Post
Hi MIG_31, welcome to the forum and thanks for the info, I always thought that thing was to tune the Rx to the crystal in the Tx (as the Rx has no crystal) in the same way you would tune an old Fm (old as in pre-synthesised tuning), I have always been tempted to replace the 27Mhz crystal in the Tx with one from another band of 27Mhz and retune the PCB to see if I could get more than one S022 airborne at the same time.
Hi.
But syma have 40 mhz versions of this copter. You could even buy 40mhz pcb at ebay and install it in your heli.
As for tuning rx to tx, you're absolutely right, that thing is indeed for tuning rx to tx, at least, i thought so too. But that dosen't explain to me why this bird just stopped to full throttle with no tx on, after i adjusted that screw...
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Old May 08, 2012, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Mig_31 View Post
Hi.
But syma have 40 mhz versions of this copter. You could even buy 40mhz pcb at ebay and install it in your heli.
True but for some parts of te globe a licence is needed to opperate 40Mhz for model aircraft, I believe SubleT said this is the case in some parts of America.
That aside the cost of a new Rx plus the cost of a new Tx plus shipping for both would probably be more than a whole new Chinook.

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Originally Posted by Mig_31 View Post
As for tuning rx to tx, you're absolutely right, that thing is indeed for tuning rx to tx, at least, i thought so too. But that dosen't explain to me why this bird just stopped to full throttle with no tx on, after i adjusted that screw...
Maybe it only tunes between say 26 & 28Mhz (in the case of a 27Mhz board) and being close but not exactly tuned will allow it to work but at a reduced range.

On same of the 27Mhz Rc cars I took apart as a kid the majority of them used wax to "lock" that part, so maybe candle wax dripped into the hole would work well and could be scrapped out should re-adjustment be needed.
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Old May 08, 2012, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by djdavies83 View Post
Maybe it only tunes between say 26 & 28Mhz (in the case of a 27Mhz board) and being close but not exactly tuned will allow it to work but at a reduced range.

On same of the 27Mhz Rc cars I took apart as a kid the majority of them used wax to "lock" that part, so maybe candle wax dripped into the hole would work well and could be scrapped out should re-adjustment be needed.
Could be true, but why then little adjustment to frequency has stopped this full throttle issue even with no tx on?It could be interference of some sort in my apartment, but the copter has a DOA sticker on the box, and the flybar and upper blades have traces of white paint from somebody's ceiling, so someone in totally different conditions had the same problem with this it.That's what i do not understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djdavies83 View Post
True but for some parts of te globe a licence is needed to opperate 40Mhz for model aircraft, I believe SubleT said this is the case in some parts of America.
That aside the cost of a new Rx plus the cost of a new Tx plus shipping for both would probably be more than a whole new Chinook.
.
I'm not sure about tx, but new 40mhz pcb at ebay costs about 15 euro with worldwide shipping, and about 13 bucks with shipping to USA.
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Old May 08, 2012, 12:05 PM
Different fly 4 different guy
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Originally Posted by SubtleT View Post
. . .

I finally bit the bullet and bought a 27MHz S022 which arrived yesterday. . . .
Subtle - This is something 'new' from you. Do these quotes sound familiar?

A "dolly copter" is one made up to look like a scale model of an actual bird. Meant for "playing dolls" with or as a shelf queen rather than flying.

I'm not into the "dolly copter" thing . . . Do you guys leave them on the shelf playing recordings of battle theater radio chatter, or mostly move little army men around making explosion noises and yells of pain?

Well after all it is a dolly-copter. At least you didn't go with Barbie Pink or make clothes to dress it in yet.

Are we having fun now?

I see you have finally come over to the dark side and joined the rest of us that like to play with 'Dollys'.

regards . . . g
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Old May 08, 2012, 04:55 PM
Vroooom putta putta putta
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I see you have finally come over to the dark side and joined the rest of us that like to play with 'Dollys'.
Hah, you got me!

Truth is I'd prefer a less clunky fuselage than this beast wears.

I was more interested to see how a tandem coax performed, and the idea of something a little larger and more powerful than S107-class helis is of interest especially if fairly stable in flight. I was hoping this might be a platform slightly more practical to hang a micro-DVR on, and RF instead of IR makes this possible outside. I can run around with a DVR making aircraft noises inside if I want indoor video.

I think the lack of a gyro to help hold the heading is a major flaw from my trials so far. The runaway 27MHz receiver doesn't help much either.

I haven't looked at the circuit board, but that Inductor may be for antenna tuning. Are you guys all flying with the S022's dragtenna wound up or is interference less of an issue with it hanging down? I'd like to think improved signal strength might help overcome interfering signals... though it might just make interference worse.


Right now I'm looking for something like a large metal quansut hut I can practice flying in. Less wind and maybe less RFI, and more room than inside the house.

I need the practice, I want to do as much as I can to learn to overcome the "wagging flight" you have to fight against on these buggers.

Otherwise it may well end up on a shelf anyway!
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Old May 08, 2012, 06:30 PM
Fly Fast, Fly Hard, Fly Fun
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Canada, BC
Joined Apr 2012
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Originally Posted by Mig_31 View Post
I removed the sticky thing from the coil and turned tiny screw inside it CW by 180 degrees from it's initial position.(turning it CCW changed nothing)
Then i started heli firmly holding it in hand and... it didn't budge. Then i turned on transmitter and it worked perfectly!Later, i have found that the control range is way too small comparing to my second S022, so i thought that maybe i have turned screw too much and turned it CCW for about 120 degrees (so it was turned CW from it's initial position for about 60 degrees) Control range increased greatly now my both S022 are flying great.For range testing i fixed the throttle on tx at minimal rpm and with helicopter in hands were going to another room.The change in sound of motors marked the end of control range. I have been testing this heli about a week now and no sign of full throttle problem appeared.(indoor only, default antenna position)
I just tried this myself and at ~60 degrees it has calmed down immensely but did act up for a second... I'll try a few more degrees to see what that does. Looks promising!
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Old May 08, 2012, 07:53 PM
We can rebuild it!
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United Kingdom, Wales, Swffryd
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Originally Posted by SubtleT View Post
I was more interested to see how a tandem coax performed, and the idea of something a little larger and more powerful than S107-class helis is of interest especially if fairly stable in flight. I was hoping this might be a platform slightly more practical to hang a micro-DVR on, and RF instead of IR makes this possible outside. I can run around with a DVR making aircraft noises inside if I want indoor video.
It hadels a camera quite well outside, except for when it has a motor which is falling apart leading to nasty tail vibrations and loss of lift....
S022 keychain 808 FPV FAIL (1 min 34 sec)


I did have an idea to keep the camera safe...
S022 with internal 808 cam idea (2 min 2 sec)


Some indoor video would need stilts to perform...
S022 BIG Chinook indoor 808 keychain FPV (1 min 43 sec)



Quote:
Originally Posted by SubtleT View Post
I haven't looked at the circuit board, but that Inductor may be for antenna tuning. Are you guys all flying with the S022's dragtenna wound up or is interference less of an issue with it hanging down? I'd like to think improved signal strength might help overcome interfering signals... though it might just make interference worse.
I never had any throttle issues while using the Dragtenna set up, but during low hover or not watching what I was doing propperly while setting it down did lead to the antenna getting snared up in the rotas.
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Old May 09, 2012, 07:31 AM
Vroooom putta putta putta
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Well I had a calm early morning here so I took Old Dolly outside for some trials.

Sure enough with both the Tx eyepoker and the heli dragtenna extended I experienced no "surging"/interference behavior at all. Perhaps I just got lucky?

I did get either a blade strike or 'tenna-tangle going on at altitude that brought things down in a hurry. I suspect the former though - nothing wound up anywhere when I recovered the beast.

Yaw trim continues to be problematic, requiring adjustment throughout the life of a battery charge. Still some wagging but I'll get the hang of that - however a gyro would be a blessing (yeah, yeah, harp, harp).

As far as onboard cams go I suspect a better choice might be the "bic lighter" cams. I've never seen one supporting 16:9 though, but I have an "808" on order that does.
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Old May 09, 2012, 07:50 AM
Vroooom putta putta putta
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Originally Posted by djdavies83 View Post
It hadels a camera quite well outside, except for when it has a motor which is falling apart leading to nasty tail vibrations and loss of lift....
What are peoples' expereinces regarding expected motor life on these critters?

In operation there's enough gear-grinding noise to make me suspect both rotor pairs are somewhat unbalanced out of the box. Has anybody ever tried pulling each blade pair and triming/globbing them until balanced? Sounds like lots of work so I'm asking before I even consider trying it.

Of course that may disqualify the girl from most beauty pageants. No more Toddlers and Tiaras eh? Talk about sick television! This Hanks bit is funny though.

Toddlers & Tiaras with Tom Hanks (6 min 39 sec)
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