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Old May 21, 2010, 10:15 AM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
7,680 Posts
Cool
Formation Flying!

Refer to the first post for current airplane class and power system set ups to best match the formation squadron:

Plane: FMS P-51D Mustang. There are several permutations with retracts, servos, etc. Base model is here: http://www.nitroplanes.com/93a51-p51-silver-kit.html

Retractable landing gear either installed in the kit or these: http://www.hobbypartz.com/77p-91-ere...-onepiece.html

Motor: Monster Power 32 http://www.hobbypartz.com/monsterpow...ess-motor.html
or http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=14400

ESC: 60A +

Prop: APC 14x12E

Battery: 3s 4500 (many will use two 2200-3000 combat packs in parallel)

Pilot and Plane Roster

Todd -- FMS Mustang Red/Custom
Scott -- FMS Mustang Red Shangri-La
Ryan -- FMS Mustang
Jon L -- FMS Mustang Yellow
Jeff -- FMS Mustang Yellow & FMS P-40
Darren -- FMS Mustang Yellow/Black Custom & FMS Spitfire
Jim -- FMS Mustang Red
Dan -- H9 Spitfire

Cool links for additions

Wing tip skids: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=8702
Wing stiffening idea: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=9439

Todd's Construction Videos:
Airfield RC P-51 1400mm, Mods & Build Notes (no flight on this video) (16 min 48 sec)


Airfield RC P-51 1400mm, Mods & Build Notes, PART 2 (11 min 33 sec)
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Old May 21, 2010, 10:52 AM
Sink? Circling now to confirm.
JONBOYLEMON's Avatar
United States, UT, American Fork
Joined May 2002
17,094 Posts
http://www.kyosho.com/eng/products/r...duct_id=104537

My SWEET flyin P-40 fits the bill very nicely. Only I do 6S 4000 & a 15x10 prop. Please allow a variance on this.... I am also no where near 3000 watts on my motor. On watts, you may want to make this 1500 as that is AMPLE even for this size. 200 Watts/pound is still rip the wings off type power. 3000 watts on a 6 or 7 pound plane is Saturn Rocket Booster type performance.
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Old May 21, 2010, 11:14 AM
More Combat Please!
Wind_of_Change's Avatar
Utah
Joined Dec 2003
7,914 Posts
Looks like mine will be the CMP Spitfire again. I can't think of anything else I'd rather build for this. I can't find anything in the 60" range that really excites me.

Are you thinking just our local fun-fly stuff, or are you thinking that we work out a specific formation ROUTINE, something we can perform at fly-ins?

If the latter, do we want to schedule a specific fly-in that we want to "perform" at, so we can start getting ready?

Yeah, 3000W seemed a little astronomical. My huge Pitts is barely over that.
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Old May 21, 2010, 11:22 AM
Hit Me! Please!
jwjohnson's Avatar
Provo, UT
Joined Jan 2005
3,989 Posts
I agree on the watts. 1500 is probably plenty. On a 9 pound plane that's still 167 watts per pound.
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Old May 21, 2010, 11:38 AM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
7,680 Posts
3000W was a power rating on the motors -- which now that I look was totally wrong... so no worries., not the actual power being used. I will edit to remove the confusion

1500W is plenty. I fly my P-51B on a bit less and it's fine.

Certainly right now it's "Come as you are" because many of us will be flying .60 sized birds to start -- but for replacement and newbies joining it, let's standardize on the .40-.50 sized stuff and the equipment listed.

Once we get planes in the air, I think we should start working on a series of simple maneuvers. To start, just what we do now... fly a formation circle then do a basic trick on the near side (loop, roll, Cuban 8, hammer head, etc).

When we get better we can try to string together maneuvers.

Jon, which motor do you have in yours?
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Old May 21, 2010, 12:05 PM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
7,680 Posts
I'll mention this now because I think it is something we can start doing to coordinate moves.

One very effective way to coordinate flying is with counting. I'd suggest a 1 second count and breaking maneuvers into total time -- that way it's possible to practice even alone. (We may need to go to quicker counts later).

For example, say we standardize on an 8-count loop. On count 2 your plane should be in the straight up vertical. On count 4, inverted at the top, count 6 downward vertical, count 8 back to level.

This method really will help with longer more complex moves like Cuban-8's. If I know where my airplane should be relative to the count, I know if I am behind or ahead of the group in real time and can focus on precision flying my plane and less on trying to figure out which plane to match and reacting.

We can eyeball entering the stunts in formation and once that is done, working off timing will keep them the same. Doing corrections on the fly with lots of airplanes can be tricky.

Standardizing on a count will help each pilot get a timing with his airplane and keep the maneuvers looking much the same.
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Old May 21, 2010, 12:25 PM
More Combat Please!
Wind_of_Change's Avatar
Utah
Joined Dec 2003
7,914 Posts
Great idea Darren. I've never thought of doing it by counts like that. It'll be curious to see if it's easier than following a lead plane.
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Old May 21, 2010, 12:52 PM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
7,680 Posts
We'll still need to "follow" a lead plane because there are directional issues too. But if we practice consistently timed maneuvers, it does really help with reactions (instead of having to guess how big the leader will do the loop).

And, using a counting method, it's possible to practice solo.
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Old May 21, 2010, 05:49 PM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
7,680 Posts
One item I do think we should add for Formation flying

With Combat flying we all kind of know the score -- the point IS violence. I think we do need to ensure we have a gentleman's agreement on Formation Flying up front because there are likely to be accidents along the way. Something simple like this:

By Taking Off in a UFO Formation Flying event or practice I understand:

1) There is a real risk of collision and crashing in formation flying. I assume responsibility for my own airplane in the event of a crash. I accept this risk even if the accident is caused by another pilot.

2)There is a real risk of personal injury with many planes flying in close formation near several pilots. I accept this risk and hold harmless all my fellow pilots for any injuries I may sustain during my participation.


I really think those two items we need to have understood by everyone who wants to participate. We are going to have collisions doing this. If you don't want to be out a lot of money, fly a cheap plane

And we do need to up the safety awareness flying that many big planes in close quarters especially since the best place to do joint stunts is in fairly close proximity to the pilots.

Anything else you guys think we should make known prior to engagement?
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Old May 21, 2010, 05:59 PM
Sink? Circling now to confirm.
JONBOYLEMON's Avatar
United States, UT, American Fork
Joined May 2002
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Add my Corsair to the list of beauties....

And yes. There will be many a plane lost in this little show.
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Old May 21, 2010, 06:00 PM
Sink? Circling now to confirm.
JONBOYLEMON's Avatar
United States, UT, American Fork
Joined May 2002
17,094 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren Hintze View Post
[B]

Anything else you guys think we should make known prior to engagement?
Any STD's, or that you killed your parents, should come up before this as well.....
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Old May 21, 2010, 06:20 PM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
7,680 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONBOYLEMON View Post
Any STD's, or that you killed your parents, should come up before this as well.....
You mean as prerequisites, right?

Oh, and which model is your Corsair?
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Old May 21, 2010, 06:33 PM
Sink? Circling now to confirm.
JONBOYLEMON's Avatar
United States, UT, American Fork
Joined May 2002
17,094 Posts
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=895477
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Old May 21, 2010, 11:18 PM
Registered User
therealhiphop's Avatar
USA, UT, Springville
Joined Dec 2005
1,877 Posts
Definitely add my Mustang in there!
ESM 71"

Love the thread

I have the power plant all here now.
Monster 160 motor
Castle 85A HV ESC
2P 5S 5000mAh 20C Blue Lipos


Cool video of this Mustang flying in formation with an ESM Ki84
kmp p51 vs Ki84 (2 min 54 sec)
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Old May 22, 2010, 02:26 AM
More Combat Please!
Wind_of_Change's Avatar
Utah
Joined Dec 2003
7,914 Posts
Oooo, great video Diego. Except there weren't many P51's ever fighting against Zeroes or Franks... which is why it's gonna be so cool to have that same P51 flying with an Me109. I can't wait!
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