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Old Jan 06, 2011, 11:48 PM
Ozzie Express wiggy pilot
SON OF PALEFACE's Avatar
YANKALILLA , SOUTH AUSTRALIA.
Joined Nov 2002
5,234 Posts
Satoru

I think that wont be a problem , being bigger it will have a lighter wing loading ....AND it has flaps

FWIW...do you know of other good hobby shops in Japan like Aircraft world , that have good prices and cheap Japanese subsidised small parcel costs ???

Cheers

Ian
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Old Jan 07, 2011, 08:18 AM
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Spotsylvania, VA
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Thanks guys for the quick replys. I'm going with a larger motor then the size recommended, just to give it that extra to leave the water. I'm planing on light sanding on the foam before the glass and poly so there shouldn't be a problem. I'm really excited about this plane, can't wait to start on it.
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Old Jan 07, 2011, 01:56 PM
Ozzie Express wiggy pilot
SON OF PALEFACE's Avatar
YANKALILLA , SOUTH AUSTRALIA.
Joined Nov 2002
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why R U adding weight ..glass & poly...?????
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Old Jan 07, 2011, 02:00 PM
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Just wanting a harder shell and a surface that will show a great paint finish.
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Old Jan 07, 2011, 02:02 PM
Ozzie Express wiggy pilot
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YANKALILLA , SOUTH AUSTRALIA.
Joined Nov 2002
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To each............their own
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Old Jan 07, 2011, 06:14 PM
what goes up, must come down..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmdowning View Post
Thanks guys for the quick replys. I'm going with a larger motor then the size recommended, just to give it that extra to leave the water. I'm planing on light sanding on the foam before the glass and poly so there shouldn't be a problem. I'm really excited about this plane, can't wait to start on it.
I'm most certainly no expert so FWIW, when you say "glass & poly" I hope you aren't going to use polyester resin- it is far more brittle than epoxy, especially in thin layers, doesn't key/ adhere as well as epoxy... and last i checked, polyester resin + epo type foam don't play well with each other... test patch first
any time i fibreglass a plane- or anything for that matter- a good mechanical key is very important, give it a good sanding, then make sure there is no grease or oily film on the foam before applying the epoxy

Larger motor is fine, should definately assist with getting off the water quicker, but i wouldnt be pushing her too fast once in the air, i dont think the Icon is designed for speed... i think you'd be at risk of snapping anything from main wings to the tail if pushed way beyond her limits

I'm going for a smaller motor because i'm only after scale speed and longer flight duration, but i dont know if the e-flite25 i'm installing is going to be too small, i'll soon know on maiden!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmdowning View Post
Just wanting a harder shell and a surface that will show a great paint finish.
No offence but i'm with Paleface on this one. the foam integrity/ flexibility seems quite decent, as with the finish is very good... if you f'glass, you'll have to bog and fair it to come anywhere near the same production finish- this is going to add considerable weight, not to mention build time.
I guess it depends on what you want from your plane

On the note of integrity v tail wag...
looking at the tail, the transition from the fuse aft into the tail is really quite small. i held the fuse aft with one hand & moved the horiz stab- there seems to be quite an amount of movement/ flex at the fuse to tail transition (around where the rudder pushrod exits the fuse).
Now, i'm thinking combine this flex with a large overhead horizontal stab, turbulance from the bulky fuse, not to mention prop wash... could this be where the tail wag is induced?
I'm now questioning if my thought on tail fins would actually achieve anything, most likely exacerbate the wag.
I'll wait until i maiden, see if the wag is there... if the wag is there, i'll definately go to the trouble of epoxy glassing the fuse/ tail transition.

back to the landing gear... Thomas B is so correct! thx mate!
installed the HS75BB 180 degree retract servo- brilliant!

First pic is servos gear up
Second pic is servos gear down
it all just fits into place, like it was always designed to be this way... other than trimming the timber servo tray to reposition the servos.
a word of warning- the timber tray is quite "brittle", dont put weight on it while working in there, it will no doubt split!
I'm thinking i might glue one or 2 ribs accross it, with the weight of flight batts...

I hope this all might be of help to someone... maiden getting closer...
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Old Jan 07, 2011, 06:29 PM
Electric Coolhunter
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United States, TX, Fort Worth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieHoppy View Post
I'm most certainly no expert so FWIW, when you say "glass & poly" I hope you aren't going to use polyester resin- it is far more brittle than epoxy, especially in thin layers, doesn't key/ adhere as well as epoxy... and last i checked, polyester resin + epo type foam don't play well with each other... test patch first
........................................transition .

back to the landing gear... Thomas B is so correct!
installed the HS75BB 180 degree retract servo- brilliant!

I hope this all might be of help to someone... maiden getting closer...
I was certain that a 180 degree servo was the ticket....thanks for proving it while my Bluebird retract servo meanders to the USA via international airmail...

What the poster was talking about was a product called water based polyurethane (WPBU) made by Minwax in this country...it is very foam freindly and does a neat job of lightly coating foam with tissue, silkspan, glass cloth and similar stuff. Sands nicely and paints well. Think of it as a foam freindly water based clear dope substitute....

Given the pretty poor performance of most water based paints and adhesives in sticking to epo type foam, even with some sanding, I am not convinced this is the way to go...but migth be worth a try.
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Old Jan 07, 2011, 06:43 PM
what goes up, must come down..
AussieHoppy's Avatar
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Originally Posted by Thomas B View Post
I was certain that a 180 degree servo was the ticket....thanks for proving it while my Bluebird retract servo meanders to the USA via international airmail...

What the poster was talking about was a product called water based polyurethane (WPBU) made by Minwax in this country...it is very foam freindly and does a neat job of lightly coating foam with tissue, silkspan, glass cloth and similar stuff. Sands nicely and paints well. Think of it as a foam freindly water based clear dope substitute....

Given the pretty poor performance of most water based paints and adhesives in sticking to epo type foam, even with some sanding, I am not convinced this is the way to go...but migth be worth a try.
a note on the retracts...
i dont have much faith in the nose gear, i'll be using the retracts mostly for take-off only, belly landing on grass and water.
that said, i have my mains hanging down just a tad, to help protect the sponsons on grass landings
if i go fpv on this one, i'm planning on flying from mainland to a couple of nearby islands, the water landing option is more so for emergency

ahhh.... always the learning curve! thx ever so Thomas i've never seen WPBU here in the Land Down Under- that is not to say it isnt here, of course
personally, i only fibreglass with epoxy. tried and proven
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Old Jan 07, 2011, 06:56 PM
what goes up, must come down..
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also guys, a word of warning

one of the nuts for the machine screws on the overhead horiz tail plane came loose before i screwed down tight, so it just keeps turning and i cant remove it without invasive surgery
i'm going to squeeze some epoxy in there to glue the horiz tail plane in place, and in the event i have to replace the elev servo i'll cut an access panel in the topside
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Old Jan 07, 2011, 07:04 PM
Electric Coolhunter
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United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jun 2000
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Not too impressed with the nose gear retract, either...the wire is sized for a model half that weight. In the videos, it looks like it want to kneel over tot he side too much.

Also, with the Icon, on the runway, the high thrustline puts some significant downforce on the nose gear until the model is moving enough to have the tail active and taking load off the nose gear. It does help that the horizontal tail and elevator get a lot pf propblast, so that issue ought not to last too long.

Seriously considering doing up a 1/8" music wire nose strut to avoid possible issues.

Having said all that, mine will rarely darken the skys at my normal R/C field with paved runway. My primary use of the retracts will be to taxi into and out of the water on the concrete boat ramp at our local float flying sites....


(woo hoo..post number 10,000 for me!)
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Old Jan 07, 2011, 08:02 PM
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United States, NY, Saratoga Springs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas B View Post
Not too impressed with the nose gear retract, either...the wire is sized for a model half that weight. In the videos, it looks like it want to kneel over tot he side too much.

Also, with the Icon, on the runway, the high thrustline puts some significant downforce on the nose gear until the model is moving enough to have the tail active and taking load off the nose gear. It does help that the horizontal tail and elevator get a lot pf propblast, so that issue ought not to last too long.

Seriously considering doing up a 1/8" music wire nose strut to avoid possible issues.

Having said all that, mine will rarely darken the skys at my normal R/C field with paved runway. My primary use of the retracts will be to taxi into and out of the water on the concrete boat ramp at our local float flying sites....



(woo hoo..post number 10,000 for me!)
I agree with using a heavier wire. I had my nosegear fold up several times when taxiing on hard sand to the water. It may have been fine on a paved runway or ramp but I have tried niether.

congrats on 10K posts! That averages 1000 posts per year! WOW!
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Old Jan 07, 2011, 08:16 PM
what goes up, must come down..
AussieHoppy's Avatar
Joined May 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas B View Post
Not too impressed with the nose gear retract, either...the wire is sized for a model half that weight. In the videos, it looks like it want to kneel over tot he side too much.

Also, with the Icon, on the runway, the high thrustline puts some significant downforce on the nose gear until the model is moving enough to have the tail active and taking load off the nose gear. It does help that the horizontal tail and elevator get a lot pf propblast, so that issue ought not to last too long.

Seriously considering doing up a 1/8" music wire nose strut to avoid possible issues.

Having said all that, mine will rarely darken the skys at my normal R/C field with paved runway. My primary use of the retracts will be to taxi into and out of the water on the concrete boat ramp at our local float flying sites....


(woo hoo..post number 10,000 for me!)
woohoo on 10K posts! here's a true enthusiast folks!!

re nose gear: i concur

it's a pity the main gear seems well ample, yet the nose gear is more suited to micro birds lol
i was hoping i could at least take off from a well maintained grass strip, but i'll stick to the paved strip for the edf's i think
for the same reason is why i'll belly land on grass- no matter how good a flyer one is, sooner or later the nose will seriously fold on a less than fortunate landing

i was already planning on taking off similarly to warbirds- up elev to keep a warbird tail on the ground until decent roll-on... i'll elev up on the Icon so hopefully the prop wash will take some weight off the nose wheel, but it'll be off the elev stick fairly quickly after roll-on i'd reckon... tip stall at ground level...
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Old Jan 07, 2011, 09:12 PM
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Chiba, Japan
Joined Jan 2002
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Good to see more getting ready to fly.

Regarding nose gear, mine broke when I made poor landing from nose on paved runway. It is all plastic, lock mechanism will not survive the weight of 2kg plane. I cannot find source for replacement, am waiting for reply from local distributor.

The other note, I forgot to stuff grease in nose gear linckage tubes. I think some water was coming there.

Satoru
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Old Jan 07, 2011, 10:19 PM
Ozzie Express wiggy pilot
SON OF PALEFACE's Avatar
YANKALILLA , SOUTH AUSTRALIA.
Joined Nov 2002
5,234 Posts
Hey Hoppy .....just a heads up...I ...never....use a 4cell pack with any radio....always a 5 cell and disable the UBEC

Unless its a small plane
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Old Jan 07, 2011, 10:24 PM
what goes up, must come down..
AussieHoppy's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssatoru View Post
Good to see more getting ready to fly.

Regarding nose gear, mine broke when I made poor landing from nose on paved runway. It is all plastic, lock mechanism will not survive the weight of 2kg plane. I cannot find source for replacement, am waiting for reply from local distributor.

The other note, I forgot to stuff grease in nose gear linckage tubes. I think some water was coming there.

Satoru
I am curious- how difficult was it to remove the nose gear? looks to me like a disaster!

i'll worry about my nose gear after it breaks, which probably wont take long...

i remember one of the earlier vids seeing belly take offs with gear retracted, which looks interesting lol

anyone tried hand launching these 1800mm Icon's?
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