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Old Oct 26, 2010, 08:58 AM
I'd rather be flying
baddb1's Avatar
United States, NY, Saratoga Springs
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Originally Posted by lupy View Post
Wow Baddb1 sorry to hear about your in-flight failure.
On the ready2fly video, they are flying pretty normally, and not folding a wing. I wonder if they have increased the tube thickness since your's shipped? They may also have simply slipped a wood dowel into the tube to keep it from deforming. Didn't you mention that the wings have aluminum tubes in them that the joiner sits in? I think I can see them in your pic. Initially, I thought these were a good idea, but looking at your failure, they make the wing extra stiff, so that in a gust condition, all the flexing must happen right at the joint. Also they present a hard edge that will tend to crush the joiner tube at that point. A thicker fiberglass or carbon rod is definetly going to be a better choice than aluminum. If you get a tube, I would mix epoxy and fill at least the center section where it sees the corners of that wing insert to prevent it from crushing. Go to a Kite shop or search for carbon fiber tubes on line.

The tipping in any wind is another problem. I was wondering if that would be an issue. I know that a number of full sized seaplanes lack tip floats, but almost all RC seaplanes have them. I think it might be a scale issue as a plane is shrunk: as you scale a plane up or down, not everything changes in the same way, Wing span changes nornally, but wing area increases as a square, and float volume increases as a cube. This is why a full sized seaplane has floats that look tiny compared to an RC plane. If we just scaled everything down, the floats wouldn't displace enough water and the plane would sink. It's also the reason the aquastar sits so low compared to a seamaster, and why the sandbird was never a good water plane.
Could you mock up some right on the tips like the seawind has? That would at least keep the wing from getting under the water and sticking, then with full up as the plane gains a little speed, it should pop the wing free.
Looking at the video closer, I see some of the wagging you mentioned, it's easier to see in 420dpi on full screen. The more I see of this, the more I suspect that the vertical tail is too small to stabilize the huge nose this has. I would be tempted to hot glue a depron addition to the rudder, making it wider. That is what I did to my twinstar seaplane, and it really tamed things down.

I am really saddened to see all the problems this plane has. I was hoping to have a big foam seaplane to do some FPV work with, but the tipping and the wagging really put the damper on it all. It's a pitty too because the Icon is such a pretty plane. Hopefully, with a few mods it will work out. I think Chinese designed RC planes are a bit like beta testing software. At least we arn't actually riding in them....
Yes, it is a square alum. piece that the tube slides inside the wing. I agree, the tube could easily be crushed at the point where it joins with the fuse. I think the dowel in the tube should help with that. Mcmaster Carr does have several alum. tubes with a thicker wall, so I am checking into that.

I'm really wondering if there shouldn't be another set of screws holding the front part of the wings down? There seems to be a lot of stress on the small top part of the fuse where the tube slides in....?

I was thinking that another possibility of the failure is when I attempted the take-off in a 5mph breeze and the wing dug into the water. Maybe this caused some stress on the alum. tube??

I may add some floats for the wing tips as you suggested. It is frustrating that it needs to be a dead calm day to fly off the water.....
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Old Oct 26, 2010, 08:59 AM
I'd rather be flying
baddb1's Avatar
United States, NY, Saratoga Springs
Joined Jan 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggcrandall1 View Post
baddb1,

Tower Hobbies has aluminium tubing in several sizes although only in 12" lengths.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...ube%3C%2FB%3Es

You might check other hobby shop sites.

I just remembered another source. Lengths to 6 ft.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#aluminum-tubing/=9fj48g

Glen
Thanks! Lots of stuff in McMaster!
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Old Oct 27, 2010, 12:23 AM
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OMG I LUV AIRPLANES THEY R SO COOL

AIRPLANES

AiRPLANES LOL
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Old Oct 28, 2010, 01:55 PM
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Renton WA
Joined Oct 2001
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Uhh, Whatever....

Just a thought, I have a fair amount of experiance machining aluminum. A lot of solid rod comes as 6061 T6, which is fine for making machined parts, but isn't really ment to resist bending like some tube stock. Before you invest time and $$ chasing solid aluminum, you might try flexing some of your remaining tube, and then the stuff you have seen at home depot. I have even found some solid rod that was dead soft, and ment to be bent into shapes, obviously this won't do you much good.

I still think going to a carbon rod is the best solution, they are so much stiffer and stronger than aluminum. Depending on the size, there are even some square carbon rods available. Can you get a precise measure of the old rod? And it's length?
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Old Oct 28, 2010, 04:08 PM
what goes up, must come down..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lupy View Post
Uhh, Whatever....

Just a thought, I have a fair amount of experiance machining aluminum. A lot of solid rod comes as 6061 T6, which is fine for making machined parts, but isn't really ment to resist bending like some tube stock. Before you invest time and $$ chasing solid aluminum, you might try flexing some of your remaining tube, and then the stuff you have seen at home depot. I have even found some solid rod that was dead soft, and ment to be bent into shapes, obviously this won't do you much good.

I still think going to a carbon rod is the best solution, they are so much stiffer and stronger than aluminum. Depending on the size, there are even some square carbon rods available. Can you get a precise measure of the old rod? And it's length?
square section CF would be so perfect!

I'm still trying to buy one of these from ndf or whoever they are... quicker to have a tooth pulled lol

OT... your avatar... per chance Dog off footrot flats?
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Old Oct 28, 2010, 11:48 PM
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No, it's just a husky I found floating around the net. Actually, my RL dog is pretty close to dog from Footrot flats, but since he's black, it's hard to get a good shot of him.
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Old Oct 29, 2010, 07:09 AM
I'd rather be flying
baddb1's Avatar
United States, NY, Saratoga Springs
Joined Jan 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lupy View Post
Uhh, Whatever....

Just a thought, I have a fair amount of experiance machining aluminum. A lot of solid rod comes as 6061 T6, which is fine for making machined parts, but isn't really ment to resist bending like some tube stock. Before you invest time and $$ chasing solid aluminum, you might try flexing some of your remaining tube, and then the stuff you have seen at home depot. I have even found some solid rod that was dead soft, and ment to be bent into shapes, obviously this won't do you much good.

I still think going to a carbon rod is the best solution, they are so much stiffer and stronger than aluminum. Depending on the size, there are even some square carbon rods available. Can you get a precise measure of the old rod? And it's length?
I agree. The rod at HD seemed to flex quite easy so I didn't buy it.. I ended up buying an Aluminum tube at McMaster Carr that had a thick wall and was listed as a "structural" piece. It has 3/32" walls and seems perfect! I installed it last night and once the winds die down here, I'll give her another go.
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Old Oct 29, 2010, 07:41 AM
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Chiba, Japan
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Hope your new tube works.

This is what come in my kit. OD 11.5 mm, ID 6.5 mm. Is this the same as yours?

I got servos and started to build mine.

Satoru
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Old Oct 29, 2010, 08:35 AM
I'd rather be flying
baddb1's Avatar
United States, NY, Saratoga Springs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssatoru View Post
Hope your new tube works.

This is what come in my kit. OD 11.5 mm, ID 6.5 mm. Is this the same as yours?

I got servos and started to build mine.

Satoru
No way!! Mine has a much thinner wall...

The new tube I bought is now like yours.
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Old Oct 29, 2010, 10:36 AM
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Renton WA
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ssatoru, does the square aluminum tube in the wing come unglued? or is it just extra long?

Baddb1, glad to hear you found something. That new tube looks loads stronger, you might also round the top edge of the square tube where it pushes down against the round tube, this will help spread the load some and prevent crushing, although it dosn't look like a problem anymore.
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Old Oct 29, 2010, 11:49 AM
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baddb1, it seems manufacture is learning.. Let's see this tube works ok.

lupy. I am not sure the square tube was glued at all. The round tube is a tight fit and one of square wants to come out. I will glue it.

Square tube is in the fuse (where serve extension comes out) and vertical fin as well.

I found a transparent formed sheet in parts bag with motor mount. It fits here. I guess the manufacture is trying to protect water to come in.

Satoru
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Old Nov 03, 2010, 11:44 PM
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has anyone tried the 1m version of this aircraft??
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Old Nov 07, 2010, 01:40 PM
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Hi Satoru San , Could you PM me a foto of where to put the battery ? I am using a 4c 14.8V bulky battery , the main compartment is filled with wire rods from landing gear from front & back wheels , can't get it to fit nicely . also seems to be nose heavy . so i now put it in the aft compartment standing up . Try maiden in 20km wind yesterday head on , did not take off . Wing tip hit water like Baddb1 said .

Thanks
Ken
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Old Nov 07, 2010, 06:45 PM
Electric Coolhunter
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United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jun 2000
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I have one of the 70" Icon A-5 models headed this way...I had a one time opportunity to add it to another container shipment headed to the US and my delivered cost will be $114 for the 70" kit with retracts. A couple of freinds and I were able to get this deal, but that ship has sailed....

I love the look of scale seaplanes with sponsons, but they typically do not scale very well for R/C models (small scale sponsons displace very little water.). I think the previous poster that mentioned it needing some tip floats for certain circumstances is likely right.

Will certainly double check the spar situation and make sure it is not a thin aluminum type.
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Old Nov 07, 2010, 07:04 PM
Electric Coolhunter
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United States, TX, Fort Worth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddb1 View Post
The A5 flew fairly well even though I was guessing at the COG point. The ROW was fairly quick and I was only at about 3/4 stick. I only had her up in the air a few minutes and noticed it was doing a little tail wag at times. What would cause that? COG not right?
Beleive it or not, certain R/C models with oversized vertical tails can actually have that tail wag that you noticed. The classic Bridi Kaos is a good case in point. I don't think that the tail wag was due to the large forward sail area of the fuselage. Even allowing for that, the vertical tail is pretty good sized and has a much larger moment arm than the fuse side area does.

In the case of the Icon, it is probably more likely some artifact of the airflow around the fuse at certain airspeeds mixing with the airflow from the pusher prop.
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