HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old May 16, 2010, 12:59 PM
Registered User
Netherlands
Joined May 2010
102 Posts
Discussion
Profile kellet

Ok im starting a new discussion concerning the plans for the profile kellet
from whilrlybird aviation


having recently recived the plans from the USA

there seem to be some confusion on ( mostly on my part ) as to exactly how to build this gyro as there seem to be several versions of the plans , and i seem to have recieved some out of date ones . my set seem to be with full tilting head and wire undercarriage Glow version ,

the head seems to be one that needs delta mixing to use

2 questions to anyone who has built this version

1: why does it say on the plans to have the horizontal stab angled up at the training edge by 4 degrees ?

2: why does it also say the stab should be 24 inch when i find on youtube that it should be 18 inches to avoid blade strike

also can anyone give me some hints as to trimming for flight

and any idea of what thickness or piano wire the undercarriage is made of


Just in case your thinking what a noob well not to double rotor autogyros im not but to this type defianately

but still a very expirenced flyer
simonbull1 is offline Find More Posts by simonbull1
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old May 16, 2010, 01:38 PM
It was a GLITCH! Honestly!
SafeLandings's Avatar
Stourport on Severn ,Worcestershire, United Kingdom
Joined Dec 2007
4,906 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonbull1 View Post
Ok im starting a new discussion concerning the plans for the profile kellet
from whilrlybird aviation


having recently recived the plans from the USA

there seem to be some confusion on ( mostly on my part ) as to exactly how to build this gyro as there seem to be several versions of the plans , and i seem to have recieved some out of date ones . my set seem to be with full tilting head and wire undercarriage Glow version ,

the head seems to be one that needs delta mixing to use

2 questions to anyone who has built this version

1: why does it say on the plans to have the horizontal stab angled up at the training edge by 4 degrees ?

2: why does it also say the stab should be 24 inch when i find on youtube that it should be 18 inches to avoid blade strike

also can anyone give me some hints as to trimming for flight

and any idea of what thickness or piano wire the undercarriage is made of


Just in case your thinking what a noob well not to double rotor autogyros im not but to this type defianately

but still a very expirenced flyer
Simon,
I've not seen your version of the Kellett plan and Im gobsmacked there is packing shown under the TE of the tailplane. I'm sure Dave will be able to answer the reason for this modification.

Do not worry about the tailplane, I have flown mine with only half and it still flies well...Its just personnel preference. Tail strikes only seem to happen as we are learning (most of the time!)
As for the load share head, this is by far the strongest method to use. I would just stick to the plan
I used 1/8" piano wire on mine and once soldered up is very strong.


Good luck with your build


Regards Rich
SafeLandings is online now Find More Posts by SafeLandings
Reply With Quote
Old May 16, 2010, 11:14 PM
Registered User
imsofaman's Avatar
Nowhere
Joined Aug 2003
6,178 Posts
Simon.....the reason for that angle of attack was because of that underpowered motor I was using.

As I had said before, quite a few times now in emails, there were a few versions out there and my print guy did not know the difference when Joe ordered one.
So, I sent him the official print and he is sending it to you FREE of charge. So, at any point you can relax with the questions on the old print as many things are not correct as I had explained in the emails we had going back and forth. Now you go on the forum with the same questions and not sure why, I thought you had received my emails. I am so sorry for the inconvenience, but things happen and we are doing our best to accommodate you promptly.

When you get you new print, check it out and see if all the questions you have had were answered.

Dave
imsofaman is offline Find More Posts by imsofaman
Reply With Quote
Old May 17, 2010, 02:27 AM
Registered User
Netherlands
Joined May 2010
102 Posts
Re

Quote:
Originally Posted by imsofaman View Post
Simon.....the reason for that angle of attack was because of that underpowered motor I was using.

As I had said before, quite a few times now in emails, there were a few versions out there and my print guy did not know the difference when Joe ordered one.
So, I sent him the official print and he is sending it to you FREE of charge. So, at any point you can relax with the questions on the old print as many things are not correct as I had explained in the emails we had going back and forth. Now you go on the forum with the same questions and not sure why, I thought you had received my emails. I am so sorry for the inconvenience, but things happen and we are doing our best to accommodate you promptly.

When you get you new print, check it out and see if all the questions you have had were answered.





Dave
Ok thanx guys didnt mean to have a go at you but i was a bit dissapointed as i had invested in the balsa and started to build the fuselage etc so it has worked out expensive this way as i will have to scrap the fuse if the plans are wrong

one last question about the head setup it shows a pivot at the back and 2 servos at the front using delta mix




i hope that this is ok otherwise i will have to rebuild completeley



finally can anyone help me with the gearbox and g10 glass sheeting as this isnt available in the netherlands
simonbull1 is offline Find More Posts by simonbull1
Reply With Quote
Old May 17, 2010, 08:52 AM
AND FOR MY NEXT TRICK....!
jodini's Avatar
Omaha Millard, Nebraska, United States
Joined Sep 2004
4,067 Posts
Ouch....sorry Simon. I would be a little bummed out too. We'll get you taken care of!

And look at this customer service! You have the owner, ceo, and the second in command all responding to your needs! I don't know which one is which, but still we're all here for you!
jodini is offline Find More Posts by jodini
Reply With Quote
Old May 17, 2010, 09:20 AM
Registered User
imsofaman's Avatar
Nowhere
Joined Aug 2003
6,178 Posts
Yes Simon, the load sharing is the Delta mix. Roll, and elevator are achieved with the two servos. This is a great way to absorb the torque of the rotors between the 2 servos. Please use the longest servo arms you can find as you need the them for enough throw.

The fuselage is fine I would think. The nose may be shorter, but that is not a big deal.

Either Rich or I can help you with the rotor head plate.

The rotor gearbox, master airscrew gear box for a 550 motor is very common. A used Astro Flight gear box is awesome and rich has used other gear boxes and he will chime in soon.

Let me know about the rotor plate.

Dave
imsofaman is offline Find More Posts by imsofaman
Last edited by imsofaman; May 17, 2010 at 09:26 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old May 17, 2010, 10:12 AM
autogyro andy
HandyAndy's Avatar
South UK
Joined Feb 2007
748 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonbull1 View Post
Ok

can anyone help me with the gearbox and g10 glass sheeting as this isnt available in the netherlands
I used
GRP sheet Fibreglass chassis board 12" x 6" x 1.6mm thick 136 from
ebay. Company was "Kamtec Models". Give him an email.
Very quick posting and well packed.

Bearing..
This is the one I used, and still working okay.
again from ebay but different supplier: -
RC Model Metal Gear Box with 3 Metal Motor Gear GB087
Item number: 390107856010

Hope this helps

Andy
HandyAndy is offline Find More Posts by HandyAndy
Reply With Quote
Old May 17, 2010, 01:16 PM
Registered User
Netherlands
Joined May 2010
102 Posts
You guys are great thanx

cant wait to get the new version of the plans

and build


one more noob question how do the blades flap to stop them rolling the autogyro ( i would imagine the glass rotor plate is to thick to flap but once again never having built this type of autogryo what do i know )

however without blowing my own trumpet i have won several inter Ex prizes for twin autogyros and have been flying these types since 1988
with many thanx to my old mate from the UK Bob brown ( RIP )
who gave me the autogyro bug



should have some pics somwhere but dont know how to load them up to this page
simonbull1 is offline Find More Posts by simonbull1
Reply With Quote
Old May 17, 2010, 01:33 PM
Registered User
Netherlands
Joined May 2010
102 Posts
Re gearbox

Quote:
Originally Posted by imsofaman View Post
Yes Simon, the load sharing is the Delta mix. Roll, and elevator are achieved with the two servos. This is a great way to absorb the torque of the rotors between the 2 servos. Please use the longest servo arms you can find as you need the them for enough throw.

The fuselage is fine I would think. The nose may be shorter, but that is not a big deal.

Either Rich or I can help you with the rotor head plate.

The rotor gearbox, master airscrew gear box for a 550 motor is very common. A used Astro Flight gear box is awesome and rich has used other gear boxes and he will chime in soon.

Let me know about the rotor plate.

Dave
If someone can supply me with the rotor plate and gearbox i will paypal the cash and never having built rotor blades before ( ofcoarse im going to try But if that doesnt workout do aerobalsa supply any you would recommend ? )
simonbull1 is offline Find More Posts by simonbull1
Reply With Quote
Old May 17, 2010, 01:56 PM
Registered User
Netherlands
Joined May 2010
102 Posts
Photos

ok hopefully i have managed to upload the photo of prebuild kellet
simonbull1 is offline Find More Posts by simonbull1
Reply With Quote
Old May 17, 2010, 03:49 PM
RC Group therapist
Boneswamped's Avatar
DeRidder LA.
Joined Nov 2008
1,961 Posts
Hello,
Your build is coming along nicely. You shouldn't have any issues with building your Kellett in any of the available configurations. The photo you posted above shows the fuselage as it needs to be built for all the variants. The tail section where the horizontal stab mounts appears to have a slight downward angle(i may be wrong) if so it's an easy change to make it level again. You could add material, or romove material as required to level that section. When you sheet the sides; don't forget to run the grain at a 45 degree angle to the 1/4" pieces, and opposite 45 degree angle on the other side. This adds a tremendous amount of strength to the fuselage.

I will tell you that all the guys at Whirly Bird aviation will bend over backwards to assist you with your build. I have never found a provider of plans out there will provide the same level of support to customers as thier team. The plans from Whirly Bird are for builders, and there may be some areas you need some guidance depending on your experience, but you will find any answer you need in this forum(so long as your posts are nice and don't flame the guys).

I would also recommend that you build the blades from the plan since they will be the most docile and forgiving(it's easier than you think). I have Aerobalsa blades on my Kellett, and it flies very well. I only used them because several people said they wouldn't work well, and I love a challenge. That being said; Aerobalsa blades make the gyro very responsive, and almost twitchy, which is fine if your skills are up to the increased manueverability, but not so fine if you're learning.

I Love my Kellett profile, it's the best tractor gyro I own. If you follow the plan you'll enjoy the results. Here's a link to my build, with a few changes I made for personal preferences:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1117672

Good luck with your build, and please post with any requests for assistance.

Regards,
-Mike
Boneswamped is offline Find More Posts by Boneswamped
Reply With Quote
Old May 18, 2010, 03:49 AM
Registered User
Netherlands
Joined May 2010
102 Posts
RE Kellet

Just a couple more questions

How do the blades flap to stop the gyro rolling ( im guessing that the fibreglass would be to thick to flap )

and i have a rotor plate that i had left over from a crashed profile kellet from the autogyro company of arizona only its a bit smaller than the one shown on kellet plans from whirlybird ( although mounting holes are the same distance ) i wonder if this rotor plate would be ok to use ?
simonbull1 is offline Find More Posts by simonbull1
Reply With Quote
Old May 18, 2010, 03:53 AM
Registered User
Netherlands
Joined May 2010
102 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boneswamped View Post
Hello,
Your build is coming along nicely. You shouldn't have any issues with building your Kellett in any of the available configurations. The photo you posted above shows the fuselage as it needs to be built for all the variants. The tail section where the horizontal stab mounts appears to have a slight downward angle(i may be wrong) if so it's an easy change to make it level again. You could add material, or romove material as required to level that section. When you sheet the sides; don't forget to run the grain at a 45 degree angle to the 1/4" pieces, and opposite 45 degree angle on the other side. This adds a tremendous amount of strength to the fuselage.

I will tell you that all the guys at Whirly Bird aviation will bend over backwards to assist you with your build. I have never found a provider of plans out there will provide the same level of support to customers as thier team. The plans from Whirly Bird are for builders, and there may be some areas you need some guidance depending on your experience, but you will find any answer you need in this forum(so long as your posts are nice and don't flame the guys).

I would also recommend that you build the blades from the plan since they will be the most docile and forgiving(it's easier than you think). I have Aerobalsa blades on my Kellett, and it flies very well. I only used them because several people said they wouldn't work well, and I love a challenge. That being said; Aerobalsa blades make the gyro very responsive, and almost twitchy, which is fine if your skills are up to the increased manueverability, but not so fine if you're learning.

I Love my Kellett profile, it's the best tractor gyro I own. If you follow the plan you'll enjoy the results. Here's a link to my build, with a few changes I made for personal preferences:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1117672

Good luck with your build, and please post with any requests for assistance.

Regards,
-Mike
i remember my first twin autogyro it had wings and all my friends said it flew because of the wings so i took off the wings and made a mast instead and its still flew ( i like a challenge as well )
simonbull1 is offline Find More Posts by simonbull1
Reply With Quote
Old May 18, 2010, 09:01 AM
Registered User
imsofaman's Avatar
Nowhere
Joined Aug 2003
6,178 Posts
The plan was sent out yesterday I believe. So it wont be long now. You will find this plan much better!!! LOL! Sorry for the Delay Simon, but this was a good lesson for us in keeping up on our inventory of designs. Sorry you got caught in the middle of my laxness.....

Dave
imsofaman is offline Find More Posts by imsofaman
Reply With Quote
Old May 18, 2010, 10:02 AM
Registered User
Netherlands
Joined May 2010
102 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by imsofaman View Post
The plan was sent out yesterday I believe. So it wont be long now. You will find this plan much better!!! LOL! Sorry for the Delay Simon, but this was a good lesson for us in keeping up on our inventory of designs. Sorry you got caught in the middle of my laxness.....

Dave
Dont worry Dave im very patient and i Really Really appreciate all of your support


If ever you guys want to visit europe and fly over here your more than welcome
simonbull1 is offline Find More Posts by simonbull1
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Build Log Profile kellet build gyrobeetim Auto Gyros 30 May 11, 2010 03:21 AM
Build Log Profile Kellet - Andy in the UK HandyAndy Auto Gyros 281 Sep 25, 2009 03:09 PM
Discussion jeff`s profile kellet pics and build maybe?? thechannelmast Auto Gyros 2 Jan 09, 2009 11:04 PM
Yippee! My Profile Kellet SafeLandings Auto Gyros 60 May 22, 2008 08:58 PM