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Old May 07, 2010, 08:34 PM
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My First FLIP!!!! (Belt CP V2)

I did my first flip today and i only had the belt for a couple of weeks. I was just hovering around and it was pretty windy. I was having a problem too, when i would push it straight forward, it would go alittle to the right also. I told myself not to do it but i have been practicing flips on clearview sim so i just tried anyways. I was shaking the whole time. I approach the flip by getting a good height then I just pushed the sticks, the cyclic problem and the wind threw the heli around like crazy. I thought I was going to lose it, especially when it was inverted. But I made it and I started the flip tail in but ended sideways but at least I did it.
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Old May 08, 2010, 11:07 AM
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Congratulations. Thumbs shaking is the norm, for most (myself included)

When you say you would push it straight forward. what do you mean. Are you doing a forward flip?

when you say "it would go a little to the right also" do you mean roll or yaw?
What mode are you flying?

Bryce.
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Old May 08, 2010, 12:16 PM
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Thanks. Yes, I did a forward flip and before the flip I found out when I go forward the heli flys like I'm slightly adding some role to the right also even though I know I am pushing the stick straight. Oh, and I'm in mode 2.
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Old May 08, 2010, 03:31 PM
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NNice...still working on the hover. Its amazing what you can do on the sim and then once the blades are spinning its a total diff scenario..lol Nice work...Need a video!
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Old May 15, 2010, 02:04 PM
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Video plus crash

Here is a video of the flips. You can see the tail move on its own during the flips, which I think because of the gyro. I tried a flip at low altitude(not on vid) and crashed. Luckily I think only the main gear stripped.

Belt cp v2 flips (0 min 51 sec)
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Old May 15, 2010, 07:32 PM
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Ouch. Good that you got the Video.

It may be the Gyro, But, I just want to check first;
Do you use your thumbs?

Quote:
I am Mode 3 Thumbs and Fly Real Flight G3.5.
I am aware of the non linier movement I can get from my thumbs now and then if I forget to make sure they are moving correctly, I used Real Flights on screen display of the Tx and made a recording. when I played it back, I was Surprised to see how much my thumbs were adding either Roll or Anti-torque. can you do that with Clearview?
I would also suggest that the gyro is allowed a little more time to initiate. IE Before you spool and after spool before lift off.

You did well to catch those twist-offs.

PS. Do you find hovering inverted more easy nose in or tail in. I find it more easy nose in.

PSS Check the Main shaft. on my little HX I would find that the mast was bent.

Bryce
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Old May 15, 2010, 08:12 PM
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Yes I do use my thumbs. It's easier for me. I noticed when I do my flips, I lose alot of altitude and when I crashed I was already at a low altitude. I guess I just need more practice on the belt because when I use the sim, the flips are really clean. I checked every thing on the head assembly and it looks completely fine. I can't spool it up to check because of the main gear though. Oh, and I can't fly inverted yet.
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Old May 20, 2010, 02:52 PM
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The wind

Don't forget that when flying live, you have real wind effect and its much different than on a sim. Ever notice when you fly into the wind, you use less collective and as soon as you turn with the wind, the heli drops a bit when doing figure 8's or circles? Its the same thing when you do a forward flip. You were moving forward headwind and when you flipped, your speed changes relative to the wind and you drop.

Don't worry about the slight rolls, it's just physics and weather. Think of your rotors as a big piece of cardboard in the sky and then it makes sense why the heli does what it does relative to the wind.

Good job on your flips, a little too scary on a micro heli for me.
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Old May 20, 2010, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenixheli View Post
Don't forget that when flying live, you have real wind effect and its much different than on a sim. Ever notice when you fly into the wind, you use less collective and as soon as you turn with the wind, the heli drops a bit when doing figure 8's or circles? Its the same thing when you do a forward flip. You were moving forward headwind and when you flipped, your speed changes relative to the wind and you drop.

Don't worry about the slight rolls, it's just physics and weather. Think of your rotors as a big piece of cardboard in the sky and then it makes sense why the heli does what it does relative to the wind.

Good job on your flips, a little too scary on a micro heli for me.
Slow figure 8s relative to the ground with a constant collective setting in windy conditions can have a drop. but this is associated with translational lift.

Doing a flip requires a collective setting change. if there is a drop then it is due to there is not enough collective. Initially you should get a pickup, due to the climb angle. but this is all dependant of the negative collective setting he uses.

His problem is that the tail dose not seem to be holding, or there is some unwanted or un noticed Anti torque command from the in experienced and under pressure pilot. (No offence 210) and possibly a little roll with that.

Quote:
Don't worry about the slight rolls, it's just physics and weather. Think of your rotors as a big piece of cardboard in the sky and then it makes sense why the heli does what it does relative to the wind.
I am not sure what you are getting at there. Can you explain some more.

PS 210
is this your gyro?
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Old May 21, 2010, 12:27 AM
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lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by HX3D014
I am not sure what you are getting at there. Can you explain some more.
Um......no. Since you had to correct me on everything I already wrote, despite me saying basically the same thing. I'll save my breath.

Thanks,

Phoenixheli

PS: >> LOL :P <<
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Old May 21, 2010, 12:40 AM
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Thanks for the tips guys. And yes HX3D014 that's the gyro I have. On the first few flights the tail was holding well but it soon began drifting on its own. Now I constanlty have to input right rudder. I really want to change it but I don't know what gyro to choose there's so many. I also feel buying the belt was a mistake. I want to learn basic 3d but it seems to be only good for regular flight because its really sluggish. Too bad I can't take the flybar weights off.
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Old May 22, 2010, 02:04 PM
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Beginnerish heli

You have to start flying somewhere and everyone doesn't have $2k to splurge on the best heli.

As far as your tail drifting, it can be serveral reasons.

1> excessive main/tail rotor vibrations
2> accidentally bumped tail trim (should always be at 0 using a hh gyro)
3> cheaper gyro's will drift as electronics heat up and cool down
4> tail rotors were not set perfectly at 0 degrees for an hh gyro
5> gyro can drift as battery power goes down
6> gyro mounted too loose or tight
7> inadvertent tail command during collective "pumping" (bumped tail stick)
8> gyro gain set too high or too low
9> endpoint needs set to the feel of the heli or pilot
10> gyro limit improperly set

Don't let any of that stuff kick you in the pants. Heli's are mechanical machines and the problems are almost always mechanical/pilot/programing error's. It really helps to hang out with other pilots or a club and get experience. Seeing a thing done first hand makes it much easier to repair and remember.

Don't worry about getting another gyro, just fix what you got. Because if you can't learn to fly/fix/maintain a little cp, you certainly won't learn on a larger more expensive heli. Besides, you want to save all your cash so you can get that bigger and more refined heli someday.
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Old May 22, 2010, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 210 View Post
Thanks for the tips guys. And yes HX3D014 that's the gyro I have. On the first few flights the tail was holding well but it soon began drifting on its own. Now I constanlty have to input right rudder. I really want to change it but I don't know what gyro to choose there's so many. I also feel buying the belt was a mistake. I want to learn basic 3d but it seems to be only good for regular flight because its really sluggish. Too bad I can't take the flybar weights off.
that sounds a bit strange eh, first it was working but now it is needing correction. makes me want to ask. Had it been in an accident between those observations.

The list phoenixheli posted should help you in the process of elimination, but is it drifting or only happening with heavy collective pitch changes.

Can I ask you to explain to me (Pretend you are doing a little Info Piece) the process of setting up the Gyro and TX for HH and Rate mode, and the methods of fine tuninging each.(Are you absolutely sure it is in HH mode and not rate mode)
have you made any changes to the head, or adjustments?

I did a quick search for the gyro and the word problem , but there was no real result. I also searched for "replacement gyro for Belt CP V2" and saw that some were replacing with a Futaba 401 gyro.

but, if you can get this one working, then you will save a few dollars (Hoping you don't crash again because of the gyro)

Keep in touch.
Bryce.
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Old May 22, 2010, 09:53 PM
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Thanks again guys. On the first day I accidentaly made the heli land on an uneven surface(rug on floor). The tail rotor got caught on the rug and everything was still spining. there was some sort of noise but i can't describe it. I placed it on flat ground to hover again. In the hover it was ok, tail was holding good but I noticed a very slight drift. It wasn't as bad as it would be later.

I really don't know how to setup the gyro. People always say set it up in Rate mode then it is good in HH mode but they don't explain the procces. What I did was plug the tail servo directly to the reciever and set it to where the tail blades have 0 pitch. Then I would fly in HH mode. I'm really starting to think that the problem with the gyro is that I'm not adding enough gain. The setting on the actually gyro are at 12 o'clock and the tx gain is about 30% , which is stock. I know it sounds stupid but i never thought of adding more because it was holding so well on the first hover. When I get it fixed I will definately add more to see what will happen.

Also I believe the crash was my fault. I was just reading about collective management and how you should use small movements. When flipping I was just banging the stick, which made me lose alot of altittude. The last attempt at the flips was really low compared to the others in the vid so I ended up crashing.
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Old May 22, 2010, 11:12 PM
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Good to hear you have intentions of a rebuild. (the sim probably helped keep the addiction alive)

With the tail rotor. there is always a need for anti torque. setting the tail with a little positive pitch (in the direction of antitorque) will not be a bad thing. (but do this mechanically, IE Centre the servo and then set the blade pitch)

I don't know why people are saying set the pitch to 0.

setting the heli in rate mode may be good at first. because HH is so violent. IE if you get it wrong in HH it will piro and piro and piro etc.

I saw that the gyro should be mounted with the LED's facing up. that is the gyro axis.

adjusting the gain in HH mode is crucial. it will make a world of difference.
I Am not familiar with your methods of doing so, but with my little heli, I would adjust the HH channel value until I found a good match.

I would pump the collective and then make a mental note of how it performed. Land and adjust and repeat until best result was achieved.

your gyro has a separate channel for the HH/rate mode. when the channel is above or below 50 it will be in either HH or rate mode. adjusting either end will set the values in either mode. IE with my heli it was a switch on my Tx that controlled that channel. I could set what value either position was at within the menu. so when it was at 40 it was in Rate mode (below 50) and the amount was 10 (50 -40) and when it was at 63 it was in HH mode (Above 50) and the amount was 13 (63-50). I could change the value of 40 and 63. through the menu on my Tx.

can you post a picture of the heli, close up tail in looking down the boom.

Quote:
I was just reading about collective management and how you should use small movements
good advice. using to much is just a waste of energy. it is kinda like a turbo boost. you do not need to go directly to full pitch, rather work you way to it, it may be over a period of 1 second or .5 of a second but just instantly jumping on the full collective will not be the most efficient way. at least for now in your early days.

you may want to change the delay to a more negative value. (can anyone else confirm that)

Bryce.
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