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Old May 05, 2010, 08:20 PM
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Wow.. 4g6s issues

I am posting to this public forum in the hopes that it will spur WOW Hobbies into doing the right thing to help resolve the issues that I have with a DOA piece of equipment. - a new 4g6s

In the event that I cannot come to a resolution with them, perhaps it will just serve as a warning to those that might want to spend money with WOW.

I believe I have exhausted my options in working with the vendor over email. I have sent a total of 7 emails in the last 3 days, in addition to the 2 initial web requests that I filed initially about the issues last week.

In these emails I have detailed the following

- That I followed the setup instructions that I found on this forum in the 3-axis gyro thread that were created by WOW, but also noted that these were NOT included with the helicopter itself, nor was any other relevant documentation. I had to track down the setup instructions myself - The documentation that was included with the helicopter were for the 4g6 and not the 4g6s and no supplementary instructions were included at all.
- That I tried essentially every permutation of TX and RX settings that I could think of and got nothing further in terms of positive results from the stab gyros - I also indicated that I had tested under a variety of throttle settings to try to rule out any issues there.
- That a crash was caused by a DOA servo on the maiden flight which caused damage to the helicopter
- That I was told that a broken servo wasn’t a DOA issue when I called Wow’s phone number to complain on Friday
- Finally that after a servo replacement, everything was working fine except the stab gyros.

In response I have received the following.

- A request to check all settings as per WOW's instruction sheet
*I responded, clearly indicating which settings on the sheet applied to my configuration and noted that I had tried multiple times on 2 different TXs.
- The indication that the version of my TX was not supported by the 3 axis gyro
*I responded with a link to a response on this forum where another individual reported that he was successfully using v2.1 on the 3-axis gyro and also sent a reminder that I had purchased my 2801 from them to begin with, a controller with "lifetime support"

Lastly, today I received a request to RMA the helicopter and along with that, there were included a number of instructions and conditions. The first condition being -


"1. Never send a helicopter to Wow Hobbies after the helicopter has been crashed in any way. Wow will not be responsible for any parts that have been altered, crashed, dropped or plugged in reverse."

Since I indicated in my very first communications both on the phone and over email, that the helicopter HAD been crashed, I don’t see how we can get around this.. The next 2 conditions are as follows -

"2. All DOA claims are strictly inspected by at least 2 Wow technicians for tinkering or crash signs. If the return helicopter is found to be tinkered or crashed, the customer will be billed a minimum of $50 labor plus parts and
shipping and we will not ship the helicopter back until payment is received. Photo evidence of the crash/tinkering marks can be sent to the customer upon request. Mechanical failure does not justify as an excuse for crashing. We suggest
that customer hold the helicopter in his hand and make sure all mechanisms and rotors are working properly before the maiden flight as your helicopter has gone through a long transit. All qualified DOA claims are either repaired or fixed at our cost. The turn around time for DOA repairs is 5 to 10 working days after we receive your RMA package.
3. We suggest that customer think twice about sending a non-DOA helicopter or a helicopter that has crashed or tinkered for repair because it will take several weeks plus a service and shipping charge before we return it. The easiest and least expensive way is to order the parts online and do the repairs. Any false DOA claims after a helicopter has been crashed by customer will result in account closure and we will not ever sell parts to the person responsible for making the false claim."

Clearly I can understand that WOW has to watch out for people who get in over their heads with items that they cant fly and expect to be compensated for that. That is not my situation however and I refuse to pay them for sending me a DOA item. I can provide as much video evidence as they would like to demonstrate that I CAN fly the walkera micro CP helicopters and I can provide even further detail on the steps I took to ensure that the heli was as close to perfectly setup as I could make it before it ever left the ground for the first time.

I would be happy to be wrong about this and would love for them to tell me where I have made a mistake, but I haven’t received a single troubleshooting suggestion outside of the request to look at the wow setup sheet. At this point I am out the the following parts and only want to have these replaced to call the issue closed.

4g6 canopy - Broken in crash
4g6 ail servo - cause of crash
1 set of blades - very broken in crash
1 4g6 main gear - damaged in crash
2610s - the ail and ele gyros are not working

Thanks for reading.
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Last edited by JackDaniels; May 05, 2010 at 08:26 PM.
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Old May 06, 2010, 12:10 AM
JossyRC dot com
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Canada, ON, Toronto
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Bump - Good luck Jack
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Old May 06, 2010, 12:15 AM
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San Diego
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did you tx come pre programmed for the 4g6s, or just 4g6? If they test fly it, then it should of been programmed for you. I had a tail servo die in 2 weeks, and I can see them going bad early, ive run into those problems with there motors. Maybe you can sell the heli here as parts. Im also going through problems with the gyro for the 4g6, causes the tail to spin out of control, but if I put in the original rx it flys great.
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Old May 06, 2010, 12:21 AM
2 seconds from crashing
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United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Sep 2007
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What did your aileron servo do to make the first crash happen? did it not function at all or did it over compensate? I have an rx I am sending back tomorrow that was a DOA and the aileron would pull down all the way upon giving any amount of throttle/pitch which of course makes it completely unflyable with the 3axis on.
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Old May 06, 2010, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelW View Post
did you tx come pre programmed for the 4g6s, or just 4g6? If they test fly it, then it should of been programmed for you. I had a tail servo die in 2 weeks, and I can see them going bad early, ive run into those problems with there motors. Maybe you can sell the heli here as parts. Im also going through problems with the gyro for the 4g6, causes the tail to spin out of control, but if I put in the original rx it flys great.
I actually bought the bare heli from WOW so I had to program my existing 2801.

The programming actually ended up just fine and after replacement of the bad servo, the heli flies just fine. Ive got at least 12 packs through it now. - The 3 axis gyro just doesnt work so essentially what I have is a 4g6 without any of the programming functions of the 2609.

BTW - My tail servo has been twitching since day 1. Is that a sign of failure?
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Old May 06, 2010, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indoorheli View Post
What did your aileron servo do to make the first crash happen? did it not function at all or did it over compensate? I have an rx I am sending back tomorrow that was a DOA and the aileron would pull down all the way upon giving any amount of throttle/pitch which of course makes it completely unflyable with the 3axis on.
The servo issue is actually totally separate from the RX issue. Here is basically what happened.

When I received the heli no one had posted the rx instructions yet. I wanted to set it up with the gyros off and fine tune and trim it first and then turn on the stab gyros.

In the course of trying to figure all of this out, the aileron servo would work intermittently. It appeared to work fine when it did work, but that really seemed to vary based on which switch I flipped on the RX.

I actually think it was bad the whole time and I just misinterpreted its intermittent functionality as a result of something Id done.

At one point it was apparently working for long enough that I could finish my setup.

I used a micrometer to set all of the servos to the same height using subtrim and adjusted the linkages accordingly. - I noticed that the servos didnt move nearly as much with subtrim in 2601 mode as they did in 2801 mode. It was barely enough movement actually. The aileron servo I recall didnt move at all. - Again I think it was probably bad the whole time and I just didnt realize.

When I flew it, it did fine for the first several seconds and then started veering off till it crashed.

When I removed the servo and checked it, the gears felt very rough. I havent taken it apart yet, but it doesnt feel like any of the other walkera servos I have here.

BTW - regarding your issue. When I switch between Rate and HH mode, the elevator server drops quite a bit. Im not sure if thats a related issue or not. - Did you get your from WOW?
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Old May 06, 2010, 07:42 AM
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San Diego
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some twitch is normal, but the one that died in 2 weeks twitched alot, and when I replaced it there was no twitch. Also when the tail servo dies it may start to drift alot, thats a sign.
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Old May 06, 2010, 10:42 AM
2 seconds from crashing
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United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Sep 2007
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my 4g6 I have has had a twitchy tail servo for months and it still works great....what i did was add trim until it would twitch anymore but at the same time was centered...so it doesnt get as much stress as it would have if left unadjusted to just twitch. I actually bought a new tail servo right away and it is still sitting in my box...

As far as mine it works in regular balance off mode but has the aileron dropping upon throttle up so slightly different than yours i guess. BUt it does seem there are a few defective 3 axis rx units...looks like Walkera jumped the gun on the release of their product again. I knew i should have waitied for a revised release like the 4g3 past rx issues...

As far as purchase i did get mine from Wow and am sending it back today.
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Old May 06, 2010, 11:15 AM
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Blue Bell, PA USA
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I don't understand it... Walkera has come a long way, but still has a way to go in improving quality, consistency, and reliability.

That said, there are always going to be issues... why are there so many public posts about problems with Wow? I never see anyone complain about John at RCHobbyhelicopter. I never see anyone complain about Rick at ClubHeli. I never see anyone complain about eHirobo. I never see anyone complain about Terrence at Chinese Jade.

I don't get it. I just don't get it.
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Old May 06, 2010, 11:21 AM
2 seconds from crashing
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United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Sep 2007
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I think it is due to Wows volume as the more sales the larger the chance for unhappy customers. I do know that so far all the issues I have had with Wow they have done their best to correct them. I have personally had an issue with the last 3 orders i have placed with them. 2 Walkera qc issues, 1 wrong product and one was missing the correct connector wire. They have corrected or are corecting what issues are left and that really is all i can ask.

Jacks issue here is a hard one since he did crash it...even if it is a bad rx or servo it is just a hard issue to deal with any company after you have crashed their product. I would like to see them correct it for him but at the same time I can see if they did replace more often helis after they have been crashed due to possible defect it could be quite costly for them.... rock and a hard place

But as far as complaints go i have seen people complain about all of the companies you have mentioned (with the exception of clubheli)....and some of the complaints have been valid and others are just nonsense like some of the threads about Wow....
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Last edited by indoorheli; May 06, 2010 at 11:33 AM.
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Old May 06, 2010, 12:48 PM
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Germantown, WI.
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WOW is very quick to market and create packages and upgrades, before the products have established any track record and problems have been identified. That has a tendency to create additional problems. With all new RC helis, early buyers tend to suffer. With Walkera, you generally suffer more. I appreciate vendors like WOW and their early buyers. They provide a very valuable service to those of us with limited budgets. They have saved me at least $600 - $700 in the last year.
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Old May 06, 2010, 01:24 PM
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WOW is very quick to market and that is the reason that I bought from them. - I wanted to immediately have the helicopter so I could fly it as soon as possible.

In terms of packaging and shipping, they are great. They shipped it to me very quickly and it arrived in the same condition that they packaged it in. - Unfortunately that condition is broken and I am unable to get a useful suggestion out of them, or any acknowledgment of any issues at all.

What I have gotten is a request for information a day after it was already sent and other useless communication and no help at all from the WOW phone number.

There are so many things that someone with a passing interest in customer service might have tried. Here are 2 that come to mind immediately.

#1 - Call me. - In every single piece of communication I have requested that they call me on the phone so we can discuss the issue. This is what I got instead -

"Hi, please send the helicopter back. If it can not be resolved by email, it will be harder on the phone. It will take hours and it will be frustrating for you so it is easier to send it back."

Perhaps its not obvious that Im frustrated already? Really a call would relieve my frustration to some extent because I might get the idea that someone was paying attention to my issue.

#2 - If the TX is suspect, offer to sell a v2.3 2801 pro at the price difference between the 2801/4g6s package and the bare heli I purchased. Better yet, since the v2.1 2801 that is being potentially blamed as the cause of the problem was purchased from WOW, offer a discount to a return customer.

In the past I purchased a hp06/xp7/2.9g 4g3 from Terrence. This was the only other helicopter that I've had a DOA issue with. - All it took was a detailed email discussing the problem, my steps to resolve it and my proposed solution and he sent me parts immediately. That was customer service.

I went through my email and found that I have placed 13 other orders with WOW in the past. Considering my past order history and the fact that Im purchasing a whole new model of helicopter, for which I would have doubtless needed spares, (and probably a whole 2nd backup helicopter) I don't understand why WOW would save a buck to lose much more than that.
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Old May 06, 2010, 01:59 PM
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NB Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Joblin View Post
I don't understand it... Walkera has come a long way, but still has a way to go in improving quality, consistency, and reliability.
I can't wait 'til the day I get into gaui or align micros--this walkera junk is tiresome; and in fact maybe it's costing me more to run 'cause I'm replacing stuff more often (the only other factor is size). But anyway until that day, it's back to the 4g3 for me
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Old May 06, 2010, 04:05 PM
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San Diego
Joined Feb 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Joblin View Post
I don't understand it... Walkera has come a long way, but still has a way to go in improving quality, consistency, and reliability.

That said, there are always going to be issues... why are there so many public posts about problems with Wow? I never see anyone complain about John at RCHobbyhelicopter. I never see anyone complain about Rick at ClubHeli. I never see anyone complain about eHirobo. I never see anyone complain about Terrence at Chinese Jade.

I don't get it. I just don't get it.
Walkera may have the concept right, but the parts they choose to use isnt up to par. They cut corners. I would gladly pay and extra $50 to know the servos or motors would last like a major name brand competitor. But they think in a different world there.
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Old May 16, 2010, 01:50 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
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United States, PA, Philadelphia
Joined Oct 2009
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At this point i have 3 Walkera Micros left, a 4g3 - 4g6 - 43b all hotrodded and souped up, in perfect working condition - on standby ready to be sold someday because Ive stopped flying Walkera, at least for now. I also have a parts bin with over 1,000 worth of spares in it, as im sure most of you guys do or if you keep flying Walkera you will have soon. Flying Walkera helis can be expensive if you crash a lot or like to modify your helicopter. It seems the only package i would buy with any of the new (s) models are the ones that come with the transmitter and have been tested and configured with that TX. Once I recieved the heli I would hold it in my hand and check it very carefully and in many different ways for a long time until i understood the workings, if all checked out well then Id give my self the green light to go airborne.

I have had issues with Wow mostly minor and they were all fixed promptly, never a DOA helicopter and to be honest with these things a servo or a gear etc is not a huge huge item, with all the aggrivation it entails its easier for me to just replace it and be done with it, and take the loss as they say if you want to call it that, Ive done this in the past at my own cost. Kind of like its part of the territory, this is chinese manufactured stuff that is just ok quality. For the priveledge of getting bleeding edge technology the cost is sometimes you get a dud. The dealers are here to make money and everything is the Dollars, if you think elsewise than your fooling yourself. We all bleed red with a green tinge, were all nice guys but dont mess with my wallet..... But I know that going into the sale, I know that Wow has a forum and if I want to be heard I can post on it and state my case. IMO If you crashed the heli because of a DOA servo than that is not their fault, this is new technology and there is only one warranty a completely DOA unit. How do they know you didnt short something out or plug something in backwards? just trying to be objective here because ive done it myself. im sure they havent even investigated it fully it seems there are the few techs at wow Dkfuji and a few others on the forum who have mastered this (S) RX, the others are the ones that got the RTF heli/TX combo. Id stay away from it and have and will be for awhile, especially since the HP08v2 fiasco, this has done nothing but push me away from these helis and go into the bigger more stable about the same price but so much more gratifying helis, Im about to buy an Align 450 pro Super Combo, Ill spend 500 to get it and it will fly like a dream, as oppsed to buying 200 worth of stuff 5 times over the course of the summer with walkera spending 1,000 and felling jerked come september.

You have to understand one thing here, the cheerleaders on the forums for these helis have accsess to the best parts, the cheapest cost (at times im sure free) unlimited resources direct from china etc and high definition camcorders with zoom lenses and very good piloting skills, all geared to make you want to buy and have what they have.

Then guys like us, the common consumer see this and say yeah I can do that to and I want to do that! then we click on the add to cart button and paypal it. Thats the master plan, thats what the whole thing is geared to cause us to do. Roll the dice if you chose, but be prepared for the consequences, for every customer they lose they will pcik up 5 more and they know it especially now.....summer.

I truely wish you the best and hope you get everything resoved to your liking, but once that heli left the ground and your hand wasnt on it, it then became 100% your property with no warranty other than Jonathan being a nice guy and replacing some parts. Just IMHO FWIW YMMV

And this is not an LOL situation.
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