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Old Apr 29, 2010, 02:50 AM
Wilde Sau
Beltpilot's Avatar
Germany
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FMS Giant Warbirds - Participate in their development

Hi,

as of now (April 2013), 3 years have passed since I started this thread so I am editing this first post to better fit the current situation.

The purpose of this thread is to talk about improvements of existing and upcoming models of the 1400mm and 1700mm range.

You can also wish for new models if you absolutely need to, but please keep it to a minimum and kindly refrain from posting tons of pictures of your favorite bird. 1 or 2 is alright of course

For further information, visit the FMS-website: www.fmsmodel.com

Also, you will find useful information about each model in the respective thread here on RCG which I link in below list.



The following is a list of all available and announced FMS warbirds in the 1400mm and 1700mm range which I will revise from time to time. Current status is as of April 2013.

1400mm

1. P-51D Mustang (Version 8) (also here) available in 8 schemes:
- Shangri La
- Marie
- Petie 2nd
- Big Beautiful Doll
- Duchess Arlene
- Gunfighter
- Ridge Runner
- Ferocious Frankie

2. P-51B Mustang available in 2 schemes:
- Shangri La (Olive Drab)
- Dallas Darling

3. Bf109 F available in 2 schemes:
- Yellow 5 of JG54
- Yellow 14 of JG27 "Hans-Joachim Marseille, Star of Africa"

4. FW190 A-8 available in 1 scheme, 1-2 more projected:
- Red 8 of JG2
- projected: Yellow 6 of JG1
- projected: variable schemes (decals) on a basic RLM74/75/76 scheme

5. Junkers Ju87 G-2 Stuka available in 1 scheme:
- <-+-, Werk-Nr. 494193, "Hans-Ulrich Rudel"

6. A6M Zero available in 2 schemes:
- A6M3 green X-133
- A6M2 white AI-155

7. P-47D Thunderbolt Bubbletop available in 2 schemes:
- Spirit of Atlantic City
- Tarheel Hall

8. P-40 Warhawk available in 2 schemes:
- Green 136483
- Camo Flying Tigers 447369

9. F6F Hellcat available in 1 scheme:
- Navy Shark Mouth 45

10. F4U-4 Corsair (Version 3) available in 2 schemes:
- Blue 301
- Grey 5

11. T-28 Trojan available in 3 schemes:
- NAVY Grey 606
- USAF Silver Huff The Puff
- NAVY Red&White 706

12. Supermarine Spitfire available in 1 scheme:
- AL / PV 270

13. B-25 Mitchell available in 2 schemes:
- Tondelayo
- Panchito

14. P-38 Lightning available in 2 schemes:
- Marge
- California Cutie


1700mm

1. P-51D Mustang available in 2 schemes:
- Bunnie
- Ferocious Frankie

2. P-47D Thunderbolt Bubbletop available in 2 schemes:
- HunHunter XVI
- Little Bunny / Helen

3. F4U-4 Corsair available in 2 schemes:
- Blue 301
- Grey 378


Please note that some of the 1400mm models have been released quite a while ago and belong to an older generation of FMS models that do not feature all the scale fidelity and technical finesse the later releases do. They will eventually be revised to the modern standard.
These models are (as of April 2013): P-47D, P-40, Spitfire, B-25.


If you have questions about this post or anything FMS related, please post it in this thread.

Best wishes,
Bernhard
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Last edited by Beltpilot; Apr 23, 2013 at 03:52 AM. Reason: completely revised (April 23rd 2013)
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Old Apr 29, 2010, 03:20 AM
WiggleWiggleWiggle
ozzi supercub's Avatar
South Australia
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I think most people here want a relatively scale looking warbird that flys well.
Also, better power systems and quality control.
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Old Apr 29, 2010, 03:52 AM
Wilde Sau
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Germany
Joined Sep 2009
3,604 Posts
Hi ozzi,

regarding the scale looks it is just a matter of informing the Chinese basically.
There is no official guideline for technical design of foam warbirds as it is still being developed, that's what above list is about.

Contrary to that, there are a lot of publications that tells us what a Mustang or a Bf109 look like. I already suggested the "Planes&Pilots" books for this. Another adress is "Squadron Signal" ('Walk Around' and 'In Action'), I like their books as well, however they are more for the advanced reader. Planes&Pilots gives a better general overview and should be most suitable for the Chinese as advice to design their warbirds. Still, Squadron Signal offers a larger selection of planes. Both editions unfortunately have a lot of discontinued issues and won't reprint. I just got hold of a whole bunch of old issues on eBay, maybe I will provide Ready2Fly with some of them.
So you see, giving the Chinese some hints for scale looks is not that difficult and is being worked on.

About the power system: it seems that the latest 600kV-motor is quite good and just needs a stronger ESC as mentioned above.

Quality control is a general issue with Chinese manufacturers as they are all about quantity at the cost of quality, long way to go there but I'll add that to the list.

Best wishes,
Bernhard
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Old Apr 29, 2010, 04:34 AM
Ldm
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Joined Jun 2006
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While I agree with most of the things you are saying in principle like QC , better this and better that ect , the one area I would simply prefer changed is ----leave the servos out 100% . Simply offer the plane with the motor , ecs ect but not servos .
The reason the airframe only versions sell out first and are in the states at $150 less the arf version . IN reality we as consumers are simply over paying $150 in excitement to get a plane with parts that will need to be replaced before the first flight or very soon there after .
Considering in the states they are sold by Nitro planes , the ability to get replacement parts for your inferior purchased parts is virtually nill , you will simply have to buy new servos .
Now I know in some cases the motor and ecs seem to be inferior as well but its not a frequent as in the case of the servos .

Lastly , the retract will plague these planes forever , eventully I would hope they are left off and can be replaced with the soon to be released eletric gear from Horison
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Old Apr 29, 2010, 05:32 AM
Wilde Sau
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Germany
Joined Sep 2009
3,604 Posts
Well, I agree with you... some of the presently used servos are not suitable for such a model. However, FMS will continue to provide ARF-versions with servos installed as they sell a lot better than lets say a plane with motor and ESC but without servos.
Availability of the airframe-only has to get better, but that is something for the dealers mainly.

So, what we wanna get is better servos. On the P-51D, the aileron and flap servos were fine for that model, however the elevator servo was not usable, rudder servo was on the edge and retract servos were ok but could have been better. But somebody has to tell the Chinese so they can change it.

There is no real reason to equip a foamie with large, powerful (and expensive) brand name servos. At least not in all areas like ailerons. A model like this still has to stay inside a certain price margin to sell. But of course it has to be equipped with electronics that let you fly out of the box without worries.

The retracts ain't that bad either, the ones on the P-51D seem to be quite tough. They just have to be adjusted in the factory. Again this plane would not sell very well if FMS molded some sort of gear bay for the Horizon elec retracts as most customers want an ARF or RTF solution... also those retracts cost almost half the price of the whole model, there are not that many people willing or being able to spend that kind of money on retracts

However, I will include the "airframe with only motor&ESC" version in the list, I'd like that as well and I know a lot of people around here would... especially if FMS can't manage to get better servos installed.

Thanks and best wishes,
Bernhard
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Old Apr 29, 2010, 07:05 AM
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Joined Jan 2008
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B...Thanks for taking the time to post and give us a chance to possibly help with input to help the development of these warbirds.

After flying the FMS P-51 I agree with all the items you listed, and I realize better quality components will raise the price if FMS decides to change a few things.....most of us wil be modding these birds anyway but what I would like to see three things improve.

A one piece wing.... Even if the wings come in the box in halves, if it was designed to be joined/glued together as one piece then attached to the fuse it would give the wing more stability.

Correct diehedral...granted the P-51 does not have that dihedral problem, but the P-40 does and possibly the P-47 from the pics I've seen.

Stronger CF rods in the wing.
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Old Apr 29, 2010, 10:47 AM
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Scale... If Parkzone can do it with the 109 then so can they. They have a fantastic opportunity in front of them if they can get it mostly right the first time. Some of their other offerings look pretty sharp i.e. the Spitfire. The devil it in the details.

Fletch

P.S. Now that I know a FW190 is coming all funds are frozen!
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Old Apr 29, 2010, 12:16 PM
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Ozzy, you mentioned problems from Nitroplanes. I just last friday ordered the "Marie" version of the P-51 from Airfield (FMS) I ordered the Kit version, because I just assumed the ARF/RTF stuff would be junk. But I recieved shipping confirmation and a tracking number on monday, and UPS shows it will be at my house tomorrow. Is this rare, and I am just lucky in my first experience with Nitro?

If this is the case, maybe one of the items we can give FMS for product improvement, should be a better dealer network. Anyone who has dealt with Banana Hobbies can agree that a sour experience can lead you to never do business with certain dealers again, regardless of what products are hard to find. I gave up on getting a J Power A-10 and P-38 after my experience with BH. I sure hope I don't have to add Nitroplanes to that list. Specially knowing that they are in the works with a P-47 which I intend to get both schemes of, plus now word from Germany that a FW 190, B-25, T-28 and Corsair will all soon follow.

Beltpilot: One thing they could do to help certain models is the scale prop. They did just fine with the P-51, but for some reason they decided to put a 3 blade prop on the Jug, and its not even a good looking one at that! I realize a lot of people wind up changing the props for speed purposes, but we went over this with Dave Eichstadt from horizon as well. When it comes to what manufacturers should supply with the kits, Scale performance and looks makes more sense. It certainly helps with the appearance, and therefore sales. Those who fly for scale dont have to hunt down parts that dont exist or are hard to come by. Those who want speed, likely are to replace ALL electronics anyway. Speed freaks do things their own way, and will be hard to please even if you tried, specially considering speed = $$$$ Which is also another reason the airframe only kits should be more readily available.
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Old Apr 30, 2010, 01:48 AM
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I own the P-40 and have flown it.
1. stronger retract servos(mine gave out in 2 landings)
2. One piece wing would be a better choice, foam only handles so much wear and tear.
3. tail wheel and rudder should be one servo instead of 2.

Other than that no other complaints as the bird handles well taking off,flying and landing.
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Old Apr 30, 2010, 02:30 AM
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One piece wing would rule many out of the deal, as some mail services require the box to be less than 1 meter long.
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Old Apr 30, 2010, 03:58 AM
WiggleWiggleWiggle
ozzi supercub's Avatar
South Australia
Joined Jan 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayxer View Post
Ozzy, you mentioned problems from Nitroplanes. .
No I didn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzi supercub View Post
I think most people here want a relatively scale looking warbird that flys well.
Also, better power systems and quality control.
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Old Apr 30, 2010, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LunaRendezvous View Post
One piece wing would rule many out of the deal, as some mail services require the box to be less than 1 meter long.
L..Thats why they need to design the wing to be packed in the box in halfs, so it fits the 1 meter regulation, then joined (glued) together as one piece and attached to the fuse and is removable for transport.
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Old Apr 30, 2010, 06:25 AM
got any foam to bash?
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Ask them to spend some time with color/squadron code documentation please!

AND

offer a naked airplane too! for us guys who wouldn't like anything they did no mater how good it was!

Tom
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Old Apr 30, 2010, 06:34 AM
Wilde Sau
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Germany
Joined Sep 2009
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Alright guys, thanks for your thoughts and comments.

@LiCobra: Yes, better quality items like servos will probably raise the price a little, however different design aspects like a one piece wing should have no influence on the price. In contrary it will have an influence on FMS' sales figures
The one-piece-wing and CF-rods are already on the wish list. Concerning the dihedral I guess it's a better idea too encourage FMS to create their models as scale as possible, which should automatically resolve this problem. If we go ahead and explicitely ask for dihedral on the models, we might see some odd results

@jayxer: Well, HL intended to sell the P-51D in the US. They made announcements of new versions and people were able to place preorders, ask poor Carlos about it
But then the plane disappeared from their webshop and they have never talked about it again until now. I don't know why they are not selling this plane. Then again, HL is not only a retailer, but also a manufacturer. Probably they just disagreed with FMS about certain points and stopped doing business. So then FMS seems to have put focus on the European market, but I am sure they will hit the US market once they are able to produce high quality models.
But as you mention it, it is the same with J Power. Seems to be hard to find in Europe as well as in the US...
Regarding the prop I fully agree, I will add that to the list as I wasn't aware they put a 3blader on the Jug

@helifan: as long as the tailwheel is not retractable, I agree with you and that actually is the way FMS does it on newer versions of the P-51D, where the tailwheel is not retractable (and ugly ). On my plane, the tailwheel can be made retractable easily, but then you need the additional steering servo sitting right on the retract mechanism. I will setup my blog soon with all my mods as people keep asking about them and can't find the stuff in the much too large P-51-thread...

@Luna: I didn't know about that rule... where does it apply? That would mean that some people don't get the model in it's original box which clearly is longer than 1m. Also almost all other planes I have bought had boxes that were larger than that, including Parkzone, Great Planes, Hype and GWS.
Also, the P-51D's fuselage is longer than one meter, I just measured it at some 1,05m (of course without the tail) and then you still need the box around it which would end up at least at 1,1m to 1,2m. So this rule is not applicable with these large foamies anyway...
I would actually prefer the wing being molded as one piece as this always gives more stability than a glued joint.

Thanks guys and best wishes,
Bernhard
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Old Apr 30, 2010, 06:44 AM
Wilde Sau
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Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hunt View Post
Ask them to spend some time with color/squadron code documentation please!
That's what I am encouraging Ready2Fly to do. I recommended them both Squadron Signal ('Walk Around' and 'In Action') and Planes&Pilots. However quite a few of those books unfortunately are sold out, but I was lucky enough to get hold of issues about the P-51 and all the major German fighters (Bf109, Bf110, FW190, Me262) and also the Ju87 Stuka (which I would LOVE in that size ) and will provide selected information from these books to Ready2Fly if needed/wanted which I hope

Quote:
AND

offer a naked airplane too! for us guys who wouldn't like anything they did no mater how good it was!

Tom
Added, good idea!!!
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